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CARRAGON   or HEXARRA! 
Posted: 16 September 2012 06:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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3DAGE - 16 September 2012 06:39 AM

First impressions count,. and if the first impression is being told by a “Professional” user, that the modeller “Sucks”, ...is that good ?

BINGO! I am still glad that I purchased Carrara and even more glad that I didn’t see Joe’s “it sucks” messages before getting into and learning a thing or two. It does what I need it to do.

3DAGE - 16 September 2012 06:39 AM

People on Max, Lightwave or Maya forums aren’t being advised to go get Hexagon, or Wings3D, or Blender because they’re free, and you should get used to using multiple programs. !

If you’re spending money on software, rather than downloading everything for free,. then it needs to be worth the price.

Saying that Daz don’t earn enough from it NOW, because it Sucks, and they won’t fix it, because it doesn’t earn enough now because it sucks ,... etc…

In any industry, products are examined at stages in their life, and if possible improved upon, version by version.

Exactly. As I said, expense isn’t the only factor here. There are many factors that are taken into account when building software. I’m going to hold out to see what C8.5 provides us with before making any software change plans for my world.

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- Garstor
Australian-Canadian currently trapped in Texas (maintaining sanity with doses of Carrara, LightWave and PhotoShop)

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My 3D art Flickr page for work-in-progress or experiments

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Posted: 16 September 2012 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Garstor - 16 September 2012 06:43 AM

Yet, if we take this to its logical - yet ridiculous - conclusion, virtually all software development would cease instantly. Not just 3D programs either. There would be only one of each app/utility ever created and that is it because “it is just too expensive to make things better.”.

Yes, that is a ridiculous conclusion. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with reality, nor the point I’m making.

People here can’t seem to comprehend this, and I can’t understand why. It’s simple. And I know if I state it a different way, or try to explain it further, people still won’t get it.

But I’ll try once more…

Let’s say you own a candy store. You do a good business selling candy, people like your candy, sometimes you have a line of people waiting to buy candy. It costs you $1,000 every week to make the candy to sell, and keep the store going. But your sales every week are $1,500. So you make a profit of $500 every week. Not bad.

However, you also like to bake. In fact, you like to bake cupcakes a lot more than you like to sell candy. So in your store you also have a display case over to the side where you sell cupcakes you’ve made. But for some reason those aren’t very popular. People buy the candy, but very few people buy the cupcakes. And it costs you $300 every week for the ingredients and stuff you need to make the cupcakes. But you only sell, at most, $100 worth of cupcakes every week. So every week you lose $200 on the cupcakes.

And on top of that, there are 3 very popular bakeries in town, and they sell much better cupcakes, with different flavors, at a fraction of the price, and everyone goes there. 

Now, someone tells you that you should invest $5,000 to improve your display case, and the ingredients, and make them into super cupcakes. And have a bunch of different flavors. And then everyone will buy your cupcakes.

As a store owner, what do you do? Nobody buys your cupcakes now, they all buy cheaper and better cupcakes at the other stores. So do you take a risk and invest a lot of money in the hopes that suddenly everyone will want your cupcakes? And if you fail, you’ve not only lost the $5,000, but now you’ll be losing $400 every week on the cupcakes because you’re using more expensive ingredients.

It’s the exact same situation with DAZ and Carrara. The candy is the content they sell in their store. The cupcakes is Carrara.

You guys are telling DAZ, “spend $5,000 to make your cupcakes better, even though nobody buys them now”.

Now, on the other hand, IF you can figure out a way to make better cupcakes than the other bakeries, and sell them cheaper than the other bakeries, or provide something the other bakeries aren’t providing, then you might have an opportunity to find a niche market where people will buy yours over the bakeries. And in that case it might make sense to invest a lot of money in building that market. But can DAZ do that? Personally, I really, really doubt it. Though I’m sure you guys disagree.

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Posted: 16 September 2012 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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JOE! I tried to make a cupcake in the Carrara vertex room and they taste just awful! But the ones I made in HEX and wonderful!

TALLY HO JOE!

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Posted: 16 September 2012 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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3DAGE - 16 September 2012 06:39 AM

  First impressions count,. and if the first impression is being told by a “Professional” user, that the modeller “Sucks”, ...is that good ?

Andy, once again I don’t understand your logic. Should we tell new users that Carrara’s modeller is awesome, if we don’t believe that to be true? Should we lie to people to make the feel good about their purchase? Should we come up with a wish list for Carrara’s modeller to make it awesome, and then tell new users “hey, we’ve asked DAZ to make all these improvements, so don’t worry, that $500 you just spent is going to be worth it in a couple of years if DAZ decides to make some of those changes”.

Again, why do you feel responsible for making new users happy with their purchase? I don’t understand. It’s fine to help people use the program, but why is it important to you to make them feel good about buying Carrara? Because, sooner or later, if the modeller sucks, they’re going to realize it. And then they’ll come back to you and say “Umm, Andy, why did you tell me that the modeller is awesome when it actually sucks?”, and they’ll think you were misleading them.

Can you somehow force DAZ to implement all of these improvements you’re talking about? I sure can’t. If you can, then fine. But if there is a free DAZ program that users have access to, and can use it at will, why are you even the slightest bit concerned about all this in the first place? 

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Posted: 17 September 2012 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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HI Joe smile

In the candy store ,.. imagine that the owner didn’t incur the manufacturing costs of the candies, and simply sold candies made by different manufacturers, ...

Suddenly, the shop owner / manufacturer,  is now a retailer, and makes more profit, since the manufacturing costs are now incurred by others,.

Even although the profits of the candies is now split between the retailer and manufacturer., the retailer still makes a profit, and has more time to refine the process of making Cupcakes, in the hope of improving their taste, and therefore increase sales of cupcakes.

The retailer could also increase business by making a small tray of “free” candies available… and this may generate a larger customer base who are willing to try cupcakes, which now have “improved recipes”, perhaps including some flavours of the most popular candies.

smile

 

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Posted: 17 September 2012 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Hi Joe, smile

I’m not suggesting that anyone lie about anything, I’m asking if it’s worth improving Carrara’s modellers to the same functionality of other programs, and the reasons for that should be self evident,. I use carrara, so I want to see it improved. (completely selfish reason)

To take another analogy,..

If you bought a vehicle, you would expect it to provide some specific requirements of a vehicle,. It should be “fit for purpose” .

So,... you buy a new car, which is within your budget, and you drive out of the dealership, (happy) .
But,... you get to a set of lights, and the brakes fail,. you crash, .....,thankfully,.. a minor incident.
You return to the dealership to complain, and a mechanic directs you to a store room filled with boxes of brake pads,. and says , You can use those one’s, they’re free…

Wouldn’t it be better to fit those brakes into the vehicle before you sell it ?


I’m not responsible for anything here, and I don’t have any involvement in the development or sale of carrara, or any other Daz products,.
But,.. as User’s of those products we can all provide feedback to the developers, and by that feedback, improve the product with feature requests, and suggestions for improvement.

If it’s a waste of time / finances / effort etc,.. to improve software by adding features, since there are alternative software’s available, to fill any deficiencies ... why bother !

We’ve seen the amount of development which Daz has put into Carrara to integrate Genesis, Auto-fit, and make C8 work on Mountain Lion for mac users, plus the development of the new DUF format, in BOTH Carrara and Daz Studio,. and All of that effort does not come solely through the sale of Carrara software, it’s subsidised through the sale of DAZ-3D content, which Carrara users continue to buy.

smile



 

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Posted: 17 September 2012 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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actually Joe, I gotta ask, if you think Carrara sucks so much
why do you hang around here?
Richard KNOWS he prefers Hexagon for modelling
if 3ds MAX ran on a Mac he would prob get that!
Carrara 8.5beta DOES work on Mac with mountain lion apparently, a lot if software does not!
(we will not question his choice of operating system tongue rolleye )

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