Digital Art Zone

In many new products I bought during the PA sale the metadata seems to be either incomplete or totally missing.

Now there can be several reason why this is the case:

1)There is a problem with version 4.5 and the way metadata is being processed.
Could be. I do not have the way to tell.

2) I am not installing all the files I am supposed to.

I am under the impression that now it is enough to install only the .trx files when there is a Genesis and a V4 version.
Could it be that in some cases the metadata for both the Genesis and the V4 version is included in the .dpc file?

If so this would be really annyoing. It should be enough to just have to install the Genesis version. Even if the file sizes are small one should not be forced to install unwanted Generation 4 content.

3) The metadata team is once again (like in most sales - I remember the christmas sale) under too much pressure to complete the metadata and unfinished products are being released.

If it is so it is just not acceptable. It is not ok to release products and then every few weeks there is a version update 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5.
Installing and updating takes time. It takes so much time that I really loose all creative inspirations because all I seem to be doing all day is keeping my software and content up to date. And after all that I am just feeling to exhausted to actually being creative.

From my point of view what I gathered once again the problem is that the team at DAZ is too small. Those people who are doing quality assurance of the products are the same people that are doing the metadata.

There really needs to be a quality assurance step BEHIND the metadata team. Before products are released to the public they need to be tested completly.

This means someone has to download the same versions that are ready to be released to the customers from the server and then check if EVERYTHING is working including the metadata.

And checking the metadata does not mean that you just have to check if some metadata is being processed after installation.
I saw it quite often that metadata for a product is processed but no information is to be found in the Content DB Editor. All values are missing.

The most common errors I saw:

There is no information at all set up.
All entries are there but the file type is not set.
All entries are there but the compatibility base is not set.
All entries are there but it was forgotten to link the compatibility base to the scene ID.

To me it seems it another part of the problem seems to be that just internal versions are handed around in quality assurance and then they are zipped and put in installers and errors are happening during that phase that are not figured out until later when the customers show up complaining and filing bug reports.

Therefore it is from important that the quality assurance team tests the product versions that are ready to be released and uploaded on the same server the customers use. The quality assurance team then downloads and installs all different versions of the products and does the following things:

- Enter the product name in smart content product view.
Is it showing up?
Does the location make sense where it is showing up?
Is it really a pose, a surface or a light?

- Load the items in the scene and select it and check with the surface tool if the material settings are showing up in the “Surfaces Tab”.
Are all material options showing up?

- Open up the Content DB Editor view.
- Are the file types set?
- Are the compatibility bases set?
- Are the files categorized properly in a way that makes the items show up in a practical way in the “surfaces”, “posing”, “lights” Tab?

- Select the file in the scene /Scene Tab /Options /Scene Identification and check if the Scene Id is linked to the compatibility base.
This last step is easily overlooked because it seems to be somewhat redundant but those connections need to be made manually.

- - -

So what is the case?

Am I just being annyoing and complaing for no reason? Or is there some truth behind my speculations what is going wrong?

- - -

Here are some products that from my knowledge are missing metadata.

Ancient Prophecies
Is not to be found in Scenes nor Sets but only in Environments.
HDR Pro Sets Urban Recreation for DAZ Studio
Cannot be found in the Lights Tab but only in Environments.
Nigel for M5
Cannot be found under presets characters but is no in a completly new category materials/masculine where no other characters had been placed before (well at least none of the M5 ones I own.
Summer Character and Hair
The hair materials have not been assigned a compatibility base and are not categorized (for example like the pearls as “hair”)
As Nigel Summer materials are placed in a completly new folder in another place than the previous female V5, etc character textures.

What can you do?
If you have purchased those products please check if any metadata is showing up in your smart content?

Can you find any “products” for that content in your smart content “product” view either when Genesis is selected or when nothing is selected in the scene?

Perhaps it is just a problem on my end. But I have strong reason to believe it is not.

I will probably update this list tonight when I have more time to check every single product I purchased lately.
I really hoped I would not have to do that after each buy and installation session.
But it seems we are back to square one again.
Checking products and filing bug reports after every purchase.
This was the reason why I stopped buying products right after they are released. Because I just knew I am better off purchasing a few weeks later when the first metadata corrections will be ready for download. Buying and installing products on the first day proved to be a waste of time quite often because mostly after a few days version 1.1 will be there.

I cannot stress this enough:

The reason why I use DAZ Studio and hopefully one day Carrara is the metadata. In my order history are now 1155 products. All products without complete metadata are just products that are lost somewhere in the runtime. I do not have time to search through the maze of material options that are in a complete different folder structure than the geometry.

When I go to presets/characters I want to be able to see all characters I purchased.
When I go to scenes I want to be able to see all environments I purchased.

If I install products and the metadata is now allready properly and fully funtionally the time I spent installing the prodcut is wasted. Time costs money. Every minute I spend on installing stuff is time I cannot spend being creative.

I complain because I see the huge potential that DAZ products have in a professional creative environment of small studios. But the potential can only be fullfilled if the basics are working.

And the basics of every business environment should be:

Only release fully working and tested products!

Metadata is not a feature. Metadata is PART of the product.

Yes I’m afraid I’m seeing this too.

Following from previous discussions you and I have had, I’ve started the consistency dialog within the community. I’m not sure how long we will wait for DAZ to release these guidelines. They talked to me in Feb then everything went quiet, and I saw a post the other day saying they’re working on it. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/7542/

I know people have talked about automating metadata creation - but that looks to be quite complex. However, a script to check metadata consistency shouldn’t be too hard to write. Maybe we can automate the metadata QA team’s job :-D

Perhaps we could start writing a list of rules to check. The actual scripting part shouldn’t be too hard.

I perfectly understand your frastration,

because I corrected meta-data, and send erroer report,
they leave so long time, then just said “the problem removed”
so I install again, but they remain another parts meta-data problem.

so I shouted in common forum before. about daz attitude of shop

I think many guys do not have interesting about how meta-data working.
because some guys say “I do not use smart content”
or someguys say “I stop CMS”
but it is almost because DAZ do not provide meta-data correctly with their products
many case. and they do not guide user.

I have no anger now. I decide just leave it off. sometimes send bug-report,
but no interesting how daz change or not.

DAZ will understand how they treat the problem.

becaues if I am perfect new comer and frist buy daz shop, then watch daz video
or daz manual,, then check item,
if there is erroer, I do not believe daz products anymore.
meta-data is for categorize and serch products more easy,
but they made many mistake,,

I dare say daz is spoiled by long good friendly user of daz.
they do not be angry.  “ah,, it is daz,, ” it is almost joke.
so I learned the attitude , just leave it off!! they will maybe correct
or they forget to correct and make new ds rc ver,
I believe there is no old probloem new rc ver, but there must be
new problems,,,

Well it seems at least some of the recent “strange” places where the latest metadata released uring the PA sales is showing up and where not has to do with the official new metadata guidelines announced in the post you linked to:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/7542/

Well I do not really know how to feel about that.

I put a lot of work into trying to bring some structure into the categorizing and now basic things are tossed out again.
I also do not at all looking forward to installing over 1000 products again if they one day will all have metadata.

Is there no way DAZ can come up with an automated update system for content and metadata?

Of coure there would have to be some checkmarks for each product if we want to automatically download updates for that or not.
But well whisful thinking.

The only hope is that this system now really is final. One final time downloading and installing and then this is it.

The good thing about metadata is that you can have the same material presets showing up in different places. It is not a matter of either or. We do not have to delete the categorization the DAZ team did we just can add additional checkmarks to make the items also appear in other locations.

I will have a VERY close look at each new product to see how the new categorization rules are followed.

Are all newly released human male and female characters going to show up in the same place now?
Are all newly released creatures like the ones from rawart showing up in the same location?
Are all newly released unique creature figures that do not depend on the genesis mesh showing up in the same location?
Are all newly released environments showing up in the same location?
Are the wardrobe categories used in a meaningful way?

Thank you for your interest in metadata.  We realize that MD has been less than stellar and are working hard on updating and creating consistency.  If you have newly released products that are missing metadata, please first check the “Runtime"Support” folder to see if it is missing.  Try re importing that product’s MD, and if there is an issue, please bug report it.  That is the only way we know it needs a fix, as we do not usually spend time in the forums.  I am currently trying to watch for MD posts right now so we can let people know what is changing.  Also keep in mind, some products have been done for a couple months and have just been waiting for release.  These “may” not have gotten updated, but we are trying to catch everything.  Again, bug report or we don’t know.

I have already had a meeting with a few people, and have another scheduled today, which includes cridgit.  We are doing our best to get everyone on board and let everyone know what is happening and what the changes are.

A huge issue is lack of standard, and until we had one, things were fluid.  We have tested what we have now, and while it will not fit everyone’s ideal, it is what we’ve set based on user input in our test groups.  People still have options to do their own or customize.  DS 4.5 has the ability to save out the User’s custom MD and override the product’s shipped MD.

Thank you for your patience and support.

Kat

Kat,, I understand it needs many time to correct and check every meta-data
according to ds version up, and change something,  but I can not say OK because
DAZ never tell us clearly when they version up the products and remove bug about products.

DAZ even not tell before what is the problem about the products and need re-install.

I acutually say, daz describe read-me can not fully rely on.
because I knew there was sometimes mistake about file location, or file name.

daz only reply to men who send bug report.
but it must need if t correct the bug, announce it officially to every user.

and there is many meta-data erroer not only ID bug.
the mistake is almost about basic.

if daz check products before selling, never happen such erroer.
there is meta-data erroer, so can not serch somel files with compatibility by smart contents,

you say, you need install new version again,but it is like throw dise.

we can not understand clearly which when and what daz correct it or not.

and the ID erroer was famous in forum, then some volunter person made script,
then other user must need to correct the erroer is unusuall for me after ds 4,5 released as product ver.

DAZ needed to announce it when release ds 4.5

daz products is not free at all, so daz can not so much rely on volunteer.

daz is company, and sell products.  seems luck of a sense about responsibility.

did you count how many products have meta-data problems?

daz bug tracker seeems quickly delete the report after they know and remove bug.
as if they want to hide there was erroer or bug.

why daz did not announce after they correct and remove the problem?
it is better, then delete the report.

because if every day check mantis bug racker , we can not clearly grab, when the products version up,
or which products have problem.

I totally understand your concerns and agree.  We are working on solutions to be able to notify of updates and make sure the Readme’s are online and have the update specifications.  We have made progress on getting the back end set up for this, but it is taking a little time to catch up on the front side.    We have a large catalog of products and are working diligently to get things in place so this will be much easier for our customers.

Thank you,
Kat