Digital Art Zone

K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:54 AM

To LordHardDriven:

You sound like Rashad is actually working on the next newer version of Bryce. (Bryce 8?)

Well, as he said, hopefully in due course things will develop to the point where what I have in mind will become a possibility.

chohole - 12 September 2012 07:48 AM

Well I do have variety, I have Br2, Br3, Br 4, Br5, Br5.5 Br 6, Br6.3, Bry7 pro. what more variety do I need. Oh and I do have a couple or 3 flavours of Poser, but only one installed, and of course my trusty Photoshop 7.

Hey, there’s a bit of variety with VUE as well. There’s VUE 7, 8, 9—and now 10…

also Vue 4 ( they had a free version then with no watermarks ) , 5, 6

bigh - 12 September 2012 12:57 PM

they are not all that work on making Bryce 7 - there are others !

Correct. I know all the names.

K T Ong and bigh, you are both missing my point. bigh said some people like variety, I was trying to explain that Bryce is full of varoety. It’s a whole variety show, all on it’s own. and has unexpected facets. Have you seen what the masters can do, and what they can produce with what so many people dismiss as “A landscape program” 

Look at what M1chaelFrank does, for example, or the guy who builds all the wonderful vehicles and things.

chohole - 12 September 2012 01:34 PM

K T Ong and bigh, you are both missing my point. bigh said some people like variety, I was trying to explain that Bryce is full of varoety. It’s a whole variety show, all on it’s own. and has unexpected facets. Have you seen what the masters can do, and what they can produce with what so many people dismiss as “A landscape program” 

Look at what M1chaelFrank does, for example, or the guy who builds all the wonderful vehicles and things.

I never said you can’t do other things .

I said to a new user - Vue does better .
and you can do just as much in Vue .

I think we have about done this topic in .

You pays your money or not .

All the best - have fun

I think Bigh is making a valid point and one that I can support.  Vue is a wonderful application which no one has denied in these past pages. My own choice to stick with Bryce has nothing to do with what it can do that Vue cannot. I just refuse to let Bryce die so I keep at it and I encourage others to do the same. Vue is still a wonderful application from what I have seen.

I am actually envious of Vue on several fronts. In the right hands with the right modules I know that Vue can blow Bryce out of the water. Due to pricing I would expect Vue to be a better application. New users have some pretty amazing clouds, sky, water, terrain presets to chose from so in a relatively short time they can make very nice renders. Vue has had powerful presets for several versions now. Bryce really didnt have all that fantastic of a set of presets before Bryce 7 was released. Dont get me wrong, there have always been presets in Bryce but not like we have now. So this is one area that Bryce 7 has closed the gap a little bit.

Another thing is pipeline. Vue has been used for several high end projects such as movies like Avatar, so the lesson is that if you get good enough at Vue perhaps Pixar or some other film studio might come a calling for your skills and pay you handsomely someday. Vue has modules to bridge with Maya and Max and other high end software so it simply pays to know your way around Vue if you are a professional cg artist. Bryce so far has not managed to get big studio attention. Bryce is much more isolated than Vue. It should also be stated that exposure gained by Vue with these high profile projects also helps generate revenue for continued feature development. Procuring development funds for Bryce seems like quite the task.

Further, Vue galleries often outshine Bryce galleries. But this is not solely due to the applications, but also to the expertise of the users. Many Vue users have formal training in CG art and as mentioned are high end users so many of them can be considered professionals. Very few Bryce users come from a professional CG background. The average Bryce user is starting from 0 having to learn 3d concepts as they go. Many Bryce users were attracted to Bryce due to the low price alone and such users likely have slower computers. Consider the average Vue user with so many coming from professional backgrounds with professional computers to get the job done.

It aint a fair fight from the start.

Vue has a nice foliage translucency that renders much faster than it does in Bryce so leaves on trees can look more natural in Vue than in Bryce unless you are willing to spend the time. Lighting is more reliable in Vue, that much I already know from looking at galleries. Vue has a nice Global Radiance feature that gets outdoor lighting quite close to what nature would intend. Right now with Bryce we are still getting to grips with the best means of creating GI for outdoors. So while Vue offers a well defined and mature Global Radiosity, Bryce has TA optimization for hdri backdrops and other tools which are extremely powerful, but quirky in more ways than one. Can Bryce GI compete with Vue’s Global Radiance, of course it can, if you are David or one of the other people who have the understanding. But that too will change as we get better at creating presets that do the hard stuff for the novice.

Where Bryce needs to improve further still, as I have stated for years, is to have ever more amazing presets to wet the appetite of newbies. But it also needs to get the formal GI controls ironed out so that they are easy to use in terms of interface design and speed of rendering. The tree lab in Bryce needs an overhaul but to be honest the trees in Vue suck compared to Carrara. Carrara has the best trees around these parts by a long margin.

Peter mentioned Howie Farkes in the other thread. I remember when he decided to adapt his Carrara scenes for Vue to sell online. I have not seen too much come of it. Why? Because unlike Carrara that has amazing trees but isn’t really a landscaper so only HE can make it sing, Vue is indeed a dedicated landscaper. As someone once said…“Anyone can be a Howie Farkes in Vue.”  I think this statement is true. Vue is a worthy application.

I still prefer Bryce. For me it produces results close enough to Vue that I dont miss or feel the need to get Vue at all. But that is just me.

KT Ong,
Mark, aka LordHardDriven is making a very valid observation. Bryce does not natively know how to handle MegaScenes like the Volcanic Archipelago. Yes it has the raw materials, but the means to build up a scene like that is currently far from elegant. What I hope to do is to develop a set of approaches to such projects that take the guess work and uncertainty out of the process. If possible, yes I would like to try to convince Daz to implement them as actual features in the next version if there is a next version. Mark is right, at this point there is no tutorial listing steps from A to Z but I am indeed working on it.

Fun fun!

K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:41 AM

bigh - 12 September 2012 08:34 AM

you can’t do good with Bryce right away - I been using it for years
Vue you can right out of the box
I didn’t say super .

To each his/her own.

Some like chocolate, some prefer vanilla.

But I have to say you’re making it increasingly difficult for me not to be a little partial towards VUE…

That’s exactly it. For me there is nothing “bad” to say about Vue nor would I try to tear down that application. I am the type of guy that can appreciate the good in one thing without focusing on the bad of others. Vue is great, and so is Bryce, but they are not the same so it is not easy to compare them. My love of Bryce does not stem from a hatred of Vue. No one in this thread should be trying to convince you away from Vue. Go for it. You probably will still come back to Bryce now and again, many do.

I wonder if chohole’s going to be a bit upset with Rashad.

LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 09:26 AM

As for what you have in mind, everything I’ve heard you ask for is already doable just not in a simplistic, click one button and it’s done fashion. It is not very likely that Bryce will ever be so simple as having a one click solution for creating highly realistic compelling scenes. Then again Vue isn’t really that simple either.

I never said I expected a simplistic click-one-button-and-it’s-done thing. I was fully aware that making just the clouds alone could take many steps, and likewise with making the terrain, water etc. So why couldn’t the steps be listed out in a tute? “Okay, for the clouds, first do this… now this… now this…” And so on, until finally you get it. Sure it might take several dozen steps (some of which, from what you and Rashad said, might perhaps involve hacking into Bryce’s algorithms, dunno)—I’d fully expect that and I think I’d be prepared to go through it. Provided I can get those gorgeous final results.

But of course, preparing such a tute might be a hassle. I understand.

It’s difficult getting upset with Rashad, he out talks me everytime

K T Ong, perhaps I’m missing what you’re saying but the beginner tutorials I’ve watch do walk you through the steps involved in creating the tutorials’ topic.  The finished product is first shown, in many instances, then the slate is cleared and you start at the beginning and proceed to the end.  The only time I’ve seen tutorials that don’t do this are the ones geared to advance users, or from someone who is inexperienced in making tutorials.  There are many geared towards the beginner, but you have to look for them.  To my knowledge, no one has yet grouped any tutorials together into what could be considered a Beginners’ Series.  And it could be this is what frustrates many a new user.

GussNemo - 13 September 2012 10:54 AM

K T Ong, perhaps I’m missing what you’re saying but the beginner tutorials I’ve watch do walk you through the steps involved in creating the tutorials’ topic.  The finished product is first shown, in many instances, then the slate is cleared and you start at the beginning and proceed to the end.  The only time I’ve seen tutorials that don’t do this are the ones geared to advance users, or from someone who is inexperienced in making tutorials.  There are many geared towards the beginner, but you have to look for them.  To my knowledge, no one has yet grouped any tutorials together into what could be considered a Beginners’ Series.  And it could be this is what frustrates many a new user.

have you all seen this old e but good e -

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BrycePages/Bryce1Start.html

great place to learn Vue -

http://www.geekatplay.com/vue10/

Thanks bigh, I’ll check it out.

bigh - 13 September 2012 12:13 PM

great place to learn Vue -

http://www.geekatplay.com/vue10/

It sure is, that’s the place i go to. Tons of information!

For me vue just makes more sense, like mentioned before , there isn’t a good or bad app.
Just what feels better to you and makes sense .

And for the record, i still love you all bryce people !
It got me started in making landscapes.

Grtz Jean-Claude

K T Ong - 13 September 2012 08:27 AM

I wonder if chohole’s going to be a bit upset with Rashad.

LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 09:26 AM

As for what you have in mind, everything I’ve heard you ask for is already doable just not in a simplistic, click one button and it’s done fashion. It is not very likely that Bryce will ever be so simple as having a one click solution for creating highly realistic compelling scenes. Then again Vue isn’t really that simple either.

I never said I expected a simplistic click-one-button-and-it’s-done thing. I was fully aware that making just the clouds alone could take many steps, and likewise with making the terrain, water etc. So why couldn’t the steps be listed out in a tute? “Okay, for the clouds, first do this… now this… now this…” And so on, until finally you get it. Sure it might take several dozen steps (some of which, from what you and Rashad said, might perhaps involve hacking into Bryce’s algorithms, dunno)—I’d fully expect that and I think I’d be prepared to go through it. Provided I can get those gorgeous final results.

But of course, preparing such a tute might be a hassle. I understand.

I’m not talking about hacking into anything, I know absolutely nothing about hacking. As for tutes there are tons out there that do tell you step by step how to do things but there are many variables that factor into which way is the best way for a given scene. So there is no one size fits all solution. Now I’m not sure about the earlier ones but much of what David has done, which is considerable. Started by someone asking how to do a specific thing. David figures the best way to do that thing and then makes a tute. That’s why it probably seems like the tutes are confusing and all over the place.

bigh - 12 September 2012 12:57 PM

LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 09:26 AM

K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:54 AM

To LordHardDriven:

You sound like Rashad is actually working on the next newer version of Bryce. (Bryce 8?)

Well, as he said, hopefully in due course things will develop to the point where what I have in mind will become a possibility.

Well one could make the arguement that in a sense he is, Rashad Carter, Horo Wernli, David Brinnen, Graham Dresch, Brian Foley, Kirk Dunne, Clay Hagebusch and Brandon Bridges were all part of the team that helped create Bryce 7 Pro. So if for example Rashad discovered a way to improve how the instancing lab works then that indeed could become part of Bryce 8 if there ever is a Bryce 8.

As for what you have in mind, everything I’ve heard you ask for is already doable just not in a simplistic, click one button and it’s done fashion. It is not very likely that Bryce will ever be so simple as having a one click solution for creating highly realistic compelling scenes. Then again Vue isn’t really that simple either.

Now in both you can buy 3rd party packages where someone else has done all the work and you just add a couple of elements to round out the scene but that’s not really creating something of your own because without the person to do the hard part and then sell it to you or if you don’t have the money to buy it, then you’re dead in the water or back to learning it well enough that you don’t need the 3rd party stuff.

they are not all that work on making Bryce 7 - there are others !

That’s why I said they were part of the team rather then say they were the whole team or that they alone created Bryce. It’s starting to seem like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I mean that’s what is usually going on when someone starts implying someone else said something they clearly didn’t say.