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Vue v Bryce
Posted: 12 September 2012 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Rashad Carter - 11 September 2012 05:26 PM

Here’s what I can tell you about Bryce. Bryce can do anything. Yes, literally anything, everything, and then some. It literally ALL depends on the particular user.

It can’t do character rigging and posing. smile

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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K T Ong - 11 September 2012 07:52 PM

What IMO would really help the newbie Brycers around (such as me) would be a tute that shows a real good scene like this one, and then goes, “You’re gonna make a scene almost just like this (it can’t be exactly the same, I know). Here’s how.

“First, here’s how we make the sky with the clouds…

“Now the lighting…”

“Now the water…”

“Now the trees…”

If there are any tutes that fit this description, please let me know. (David’s cavern tute comes close to what I have in mind; now let’s have more. Especially ones with cloudy skies.)

Picked up a few more interesting things about Bryce and VUE here, by the way. So many of Bryce’s most outstanding features are basically hid below the surface, so to speak, to be taken out and used only by those ‘in the know’?

That’s not realistic because the scene like Rashad is showing in the post you quoted has taken him months to create and even then he had help. In fairness though Rashad does have a real life with real obligations. Meaning that if he could devote himself just to scene creation he might get completion down from months to weeks. Still that’s not realistic for a beginner, what is realistic are the scenes described in the tutorials available from David. I’m pretty sure I posted links to several in your thread on this same topic of Bryce vs Vue but you apparently didn’t notice? Those kind would be more suitable because they can be done in a fairly short time frame if you can keep up with David. smile

Here they are again for anyone interested

Bryce desert landscape - part 1 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen 
Bryce desert landscape - part 2 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen
Bryce lake in a landscape - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce lighthouse “light beam” effect - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen

 

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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chohole - 12 September 2012 04:31 AM
bigh - 12 September 2012 03:31 AM

if you want to do some good right away get Vue - if you want to take a long to to do some good get Bryce .
because like they said you have to learn so much to do it .
so there rolleyes


And of course bigh you just know I am going to disagree with you.  I found Vue difficult to get on with, and ditched it. Bryce on the other hand I taught myself to use, from a mag cover copy of B2 and no manual.

I have to disagree with him too. You can do good very easily with Bryce just like you can with vue. As far as what is natively available. Going to the next level it’s still the same, both can do good but you need to buy someone else’s work to take much of the difficult part out for the beginner. I mean really Vue doesn’t seperate itself from Bryce in comparrison until you get to the point of making hyper-realistic environments such as seen in Avatar. But hey if you’re at that level you’re probably not working with Bryce anyway because of it’s current limitations with memory and not being 64 bit yet.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 08:20 AM
chohole - 12 September 2012 04:31 AM
bigh - 12 September 2012 03:31 AM

if you want to do some good right away get Vue - if you want to take a long to to do some good get Bryce .
because like they said you have to learn so much to do it .
so there rolleyes


And of course bigh you just know I am going to disagree with you.  I found Vue difficult to get on with, and ditched it. Bryce on the other hand I taught myself to use, from a mag cover copy of B2 and no manual.

I have to disagree with him too. You can do good very easily with Bryce just like you can with vue. As far as what is natively available. Going to the next level it’s still the same, both can do good but you need to buy someone else’s work to take much of the difficult part out for the beginner. I mean really Vue doesn’t seperate itself from Bryce in comparrison until you get to the point of making hyper-realistic environments such as seen in Avatar. But hey if you’re at that level you’re probably not working with Bryce anyway because of it’s current limitations with memory and not being 64 bit yet.

you can’t do good with Bryce right away - I been using it for years
Vue you can right out of the box
I didn’t say super .

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 08:07 AM

That’s not realistic because the scene like Rashad is showing in the post you quoted has taken him months to create and even then he had help. In fairness though Rashad does have a real life with real obligations. Meaning that if he could devote himself just to scene creation he might get completion down from months to weeks. Still that’s not realistic for a beginner, what is realistic are the scenes described in the tutorials available from David. I’m pretty sure I posted links to several in your thread on this same topic of Bryce vs Vue but you apparently didn’t notice? Those kind would be more suitable because they can be done in a fairly short time frame if you can keep up with David. smile

If Rashad had a tute like what I described, then it wouldn’t have taken him that long, right? smile

And maybe the tute could go in stages. First you can have the bare scene with no terrain. Stage one: focus on the sky first.

Stage two: Okay, now we have a scene with a lovely sky with clouds. But still no terrain. So now let’s work on that.

Stage three: Ah, now we have some terrain, but it’s all barren. So let’s now add some vegetation…

And so on.

And one could always give the warning that it’s a long way to the final scene.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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bigh - 12 September 2012 08:34 AM

you can’t do good with Bryce right away - I been using it for years
Vue you can right out of the box
I didn’t say super .

To each his/her own. wink

Some like chocolate, some prefer vanilla.

But I have to say you’re making it increasingly difficult for me not to be a little partial towards VUE…

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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bigh - 12 September 2012 08:34 AM
LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 08:20 AM
chohole - 12 September 2012 04:31 AM
bigh - 12 September 2012 03:31 AM

if you want to do some good right away get Vue - if you want to take a long to to do some good get Bryce .
because like they said you have to learn so much to do it .
so there rolleyes


And of course bigh you just know I am going to disagree with you.  I found Vue difficult to get on with, and ditched it. Bryce on the other hand I taught myself to use, from a mag cover copy of B2 and no manual.

I have to disagree with him too. You can do good very easily with Bryce just like you can with vue. As far as what is natively available. Going to the next level it’s still the same, both can do good but you need to buy someone else’s work to take much of the difficult part out for the beginner. I mean really Vue doesn’t seperate itself from Bryce in comparrison until you get to the point of making hyper-realistic environments such as seen in Avatar. But hey if you’re at that level you’re probably not working with Bryce anyway because of it’s current limitations with memory and not being 64 bit yet.

you can’t do good with Bryce right away - I been using it for years
Vue you can right out of the box
I didn’t say super .

Okay maybe we’re working with a different definition of good? I’m saying there are enough things (content) in Bryce that you can click on them and assemble a decent scene for a fresh out of the box newbie, same as view. Now will either scene be so amazing that people will say, “My god you are a great 3D artist”? no but you can create reasonably decent scenes.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:38 AM
LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 08:07 AM

That’s not realistic because the scene like Rashad is showing in the post you quoted has taken him months to create and even then he had help. In fairness though Rashad does have a real life with real obligations. Meaning that if he could devote himself just to scene creation he might get completion down from months to weeks. Still that’s not realistic for a beginner, what is realistic are the scenes described in the tutorials available from David. I’m pretty sure I posted links to several in your thread on this same topic of Bryce vs Vue but you apparently didn’t notice? Those kind would be more suitable because they can be done in a fairly short time frame if you can keep up with David. smile

If Rashad had a tute like what I described, then it wouldn’t have taken him that long, right? smile

And maybe the tute could go in stages. First you can have the bare scene with no terrain. Stage one: focus on the sky first.

Stage two: Okay, now we have a scene with a lovely sky with clouds. But still no terrain. So now let’s work on that.

Stage three: Ah, now we have some terrain, but it’s all barren. So let’s now add some vegetation…

And so on.

And one could always give the warning that it’s a long way to the final scene.

Not really because Rashad is developing the techniques one would need to use to create a scene like that. So there is no tute Rashad could have that would speed up his process. Even with a tute though a scene like that would still take alot of work and time and beginners tend not to have that level of dedication to want to spend days or weeks creating a scene.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Horo - 12 September 2012 12:37 AM

...It doesn’t really matter with what 3D application you start, you’ll have to learn the software first. It’s the tool….

This is exactly correct, in most cases. One cannot be creative when struggling to get a tool to function as trying to get something to do what we want uses our mental resources and leaves nothing for the creative process. Except in Bryce. Yes, you do need to understand the basics in Bryce to be able to do anything, and those basics have a little higher learning curve for most ‘because it is non standard.’ We carry over concepts of interface interaction from one piece of software to another. When something is as non standard as Bryce, that paradigm breaks down, even if the interface is superior in many ways.

Back to the ‘Except in Bryce’ statement. Bryce’s core concept of inspiring/exploring was well realized in it’s interface design so people are able to create amazing stuff ‘poking around.’ Much more so then in traditional interfaces. It is not unusual for someone to come up with something amazing in Bryce and then for them to tell you they’re not sure how they got that effect, because they did it in a freestyle method. You just don’t get the “oh hey, that’s cool” moments in traditional interfaces that you get with Kia’s interface designs. What you do get is a much more predictable and repeatable experience on average. Basically, if one is really good with either tool they will get both, what they get while learning is almost opposite (imo.)

One other thing. Bryce, once one gets the basics down is a much more personalized experience from my experience. What any two people do with it will often be drastically different. This is not the case so much with more traditional interface software tools.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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To LordHardDriven:

You sound like Rashad is actually working on the next newer version of Bryce. (Bryce 8?)

Well, as he said, hopefully in due course things will develop to the point where what I have in mind will become a possibility.

chohole - 12 September 2012 07:48 AM

Well I do have variety, I have Br2, Br3, Br 4, Br5, Br5.5 Br 6, Br6.3, Bry7 pro. what more variety do I need. Oh and I do have a couple or 3 flavours of Poser, but only one installed, and of course my trusty Photoshop 7.

Hey, there’s a bit of variety with VUE as well. There’s VUE 7, 8, 9—and now 10…

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Posted: 12 September 2012 09:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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If we look at Bryce’s material editor and compare that to a more standard dialog box design we can get a glimpse of how interface design can shape our view of something as simple or as complex as setting surface properties can be. Bryce’s visual push, pull.. 3D, colorful interface is beautiful, quirky, fun… and less efficient for most people. This concept permeates the software. The Elevation Map design is brilliant imo, better then in other software, but it wouldn’t ‘fit’ in standard designs as well, so breaking the standard design paradigm can result in better designs.

Anyways, these are just some of my musings on the topic, peace. smile

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Posted: 12 September 2012 09:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:54 AM

To LordHardDriven:

You sound like Rashad is actually working on the next newer version of Bryce. (Bryce 8?)

Well, as he said, hopefully in due course things will develop to the point where what I have in mind will become a possibility.

Well one could make the arguement that in a sense he is, Rashad Carter, Horo Wernli, David Brinnen, Graham Dresch, Brian Foley, Kirk Dunne, Clay Hagebusch and Brandon Bridges were all part of the team that helped create Bryce 7 Pro. So if for example Rashad discovered a way to improve how the instancing lab works then that indeed could become part of Bryce 8 if there ever is a Bryce 8.

As for what you have in mind, everything I’ve heard you ask for is already doable just not in a simplistic, click one button and it’s done fashion. It is not very likely that Bryce will ever be so simple as having a one click solution for creating highly realistic compelling scenes. Then again Vue isn’t really that simple either.

Now in both you can buy 3rd party packages where someone else has done all the work and you just add a couple of elements to round out the scene but that’s not really creating something of your own because without the person to do the hard part and then sell it to you or if you don’t have the money to buy it, then you’re dead in the water or back to learning it well enough that you don’t need the 3rd party stuff.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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OK, maybe think in these terms.

Bryce for people who art is their hobby, do not begrudge the time spent on their hobby and treat the creative process as a bit of an adventure.

Professional software is made for professionals (in other words people who get paid and generally have to work to deadlines and towards specific goals), you spend money and time according to your budget and brief.

Choose the appropriate software according to your aims and your demeanour.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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We can argue whether the Bryce interface is better and more intuitive than a standard one we find in Carrara, Terragen or others for eternity. What it boils down to is preference.

In the beginning, I also asked for metric values and a standard interface. Once I discovered the Bryce GUI is some sort of an adventure game and that I can assign any unit to the Bryce unit, I shut up.

The Bryce UI is fun, the more standard ones may fit better to geographers. A 3D CG application that is capable of generating just any genre of artwork imaginable and is not limited to landscape needs to have an “unscientific” user interface. But we must not forget that Bryce also offers numeric input, not only sliders. And thanks to this numeric input option, everything is repeatable just if it had a standard interface.

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Posted: 12 September 2012 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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LordHardDriven - 12 September 2012 09:26 AM
K T Ong - 12 September 2012 08:54 AM

To LordHardDriven:

You sound like Rashad is actually working on the next newer version of Bryce. (Bryce 8?)

Well, as he said, hopefully in due course things will develop to the point where what I have in mind will become a possibility.

Well one could make the arguement that in a sense he is, Rashad Carter, Horo Wernli, David Brinnen, Graham Dresch, Brian Foley, Kirk Dunne, Clay Hagebusch and Brandon Bridges were all part of the team that helped create Bryce 7 Pro. So if for example Rashad discovered a way to improve how the instancing lab works then that indeed could become part of Bryce 8 if there ever is a Bryce 8.

As for what you have in mind, everything I’ve heard you ask for is already doable just not in a simplistic, click one button and it’s done fashion. It is not very likely that Bryce will ever be so simple as having a one click solution for creating highly realistic compelling scenes. Then again Vue isn’t really that simple either.

Now in both you can buy 3rd party packages where someone else has done all the work and you just add a couple of elements to round out the scene but that’s not really creating something of your own because without the person to do the hard part and then sell it to you or if you don’t have the money to buy it, then you’re dead in the water or back to learning it well enough that you don’t need the 3rd party stuff.

they are not all that work on making Bryce 7 - there are others !

 

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