Leaving so soon?

edited December 1969 in The Commons

To all 3D art creators,
May peace and good will follow you or if you prefer, war and suffering. I believe real existence is somewhere in between. I would like to take a moment to address concerns I have read of others in our community and offer my own personal opinion of such concerns for those who would read these words. I have read of people leaving this community for what must be for them valid reasons, Several seem centered around the changes made in the newer versions of DAZ Studio and the items available in the store. Maybe it comes down to preference for one program over another. Having used both Poser and DS since their inception I sometimes share those feelings but what keeps me staying with DAZ for more than 10 years now is the feeling that all this effort from these people continues to evolve into something really great. Not only that but so much of it at low cost. I believe that those who "stick with" this community and offer their input good or bad will keep this whole 3D experience the incredible and enjoyable one it has been through this last decade. To those who feel the need to leave I have only this to say. The door is always open, come in again sometime and be astounded.

Comments

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,556
    edited December 1969

    Well said! I agree. Stick with it.... cuss and moan but keep on learning and you will make it through! I know I have had my moments of frustration. Right now I'm in the middle of figuring out what plugins work with Photoshop CS6, not many I'm afraid. Am I going to return Photoshop because of my loss.. nope. You just find another way to achieve your end result. Nothing stays the same... never has, never will. Just look at your body, your face, your real life... compare it to 10 years ago... is it the same? See my reasoning? Same with software... it's always changing. Most of the time faster than life. That's the way it is.

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 823
    edited December 1969

    I'm getting hotter every year ;-)

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited December 1969

    Same here, but just more grey. Chicks dig it. :)

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Here, here!

    I agree with you botdog and Ramwolff!

  • TorbyTorby Posts: 0
    edited September 2012

    Too ADD to follow it all, but I think I agree. DS 4.5 is new, and it's different, and I like it, though I haven't figured it all out yet. I'll stick around.

    But then, maybe that's not good news to you all :cheese:

    Post edited by Torby on
  • ErdehelErdehel Posts: 190
    edited September 2012

    Daz Studio 4.5 is a wonderful piece of software. Lots of new and useful things. Genesis is the best and most powerful figure DAZ ever built. Only the shop and forum overhaul went somewhere wrong, some mishaps really surprized me. Shop is almost OK now. Forums come alive again.

    I never even considered leaving. Just happy with the new stuff %-P

    Post edited by Erdehel on
  • MJ007MJ007 Posts: 988
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Same here, but just more grey. Chicks dig it. :)

    Love It! Simple and Plain!

    -MJ

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,112
    edited December 1969

    botdog said:
    I believe that those who "stick with" this community and offer their input good or bad will keep this whole 3D experience the incredible and enjoyable one it has been through this last decade. To those who feel the need to leave I have only this to say. The door is always open, come in again sometime and be astounded.

    ...well being one of those who has been a bit blunt and laid a few things on the line as to where this media is heading (particularly the fact that the it has pretty much outgrown the 32 bit platform, which, alas is the way of "progress") and not in the position to lay out hundreds (thousands?) more to support the "next generation" of figure models I am beginning to wonder if my association with Daz may not have seen better days. The fact that the core application has never really been stable or "finished" before the next version was launched, and "new" features seem to take precedent over developing a sound and stable core programme, it has become a bit frustrating to say the least.

    I used to render scenes at the rate of almost one a night. Last night, on one thread I just posted my first new scene I did in over a month. It;s not that I have lost interest, as it has been weariness of dealing with an incomplete and often unstable application that is in constant "Beta" status.

    Maybe 4.6 or 5 will be the next best thing to sliced bread, I don't know. Currently though, there are still too many issues from plugins not working to features that are still "broken". It's kind of like getting a new a car but the airbags aren't yet installed, the headlamps don't yet work, and only the rear left passenger window rolls down.

    I always thought Daz really had something here, A fully modular rather than "fixed" application that could be tailored to the individual's needs rather than the individual's needs being tailored to the application which is why I "hung on" all these years. This recent move to an entirely new format and marketing direction pretty much abandons part what has gone before and in the end leaves a portion of the community out.

    That's just the way of business sometimes. Daz want's to establish it's own identity in the 3D/CG media and not just be a "provider of Poser content:" content anymore. They have every right to move out into their own light., that's what the whole concept of "free enterprise" is all about. Unfortunately, such a move is not without causing a bit of "collateral damage", such as the community members (some who have been here for the long haul, much longer than I have) who have decided to leave because they no longer feel a part of Daz's vision anymore.

  • JimJim Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    In my short time here at DAZ I've had a number of issues, some of which have been so incredibly frustrating with some unbelievably bad service, but I've also got a lot out of it (with some good service too). I guess in a way I came at the best and worst of times. Best because of Studio 4 and Genesis, but worst because of the terrible changing over of the store and forums, and the reduction of Studio Adv/Pro to free did cheese me off when it first happened too (even though I got the upgrade to Pro for free).

    I think Studio 4.5 is a great piece of software. I did have some very strange issues when first upgrading, but they mysteriously fixed themselves up. I've had a couple of crashes (less than what I experienced with 4). I love the content creation tools, weight maps, rigging system, 3delight etc etc. I just hope the community bounces back (as it seems to be doing), and the vendors keep making great content and producing awesome plugins. DAZ is very lucky to have such great content creators working with them, and I hope they know it. I also hope they know the value of their customers, especially the ones that have been around since forever (though the last is in doubt still).

    I guess whatever model DAZ applied when figuring out the cost/returns on their rather audacious endevours showed it was all financially desirable. Producing Genesis the way they did was a clear sign that DAZ was striking out on their own (or maybe they expected Poser to adopt the same technology), and an obvious splitting of the market (all this could be seen as an aggressive, but horribly flawed and failed coup on the software and content markets, or at least a bid to annex some territory. Who really knows why these decisions were made, but it seems certain that DAZ is working to mend some bridges in that department. It would be great, and hugely beneficial for the entire DAZ/Poser community if DAZ/SM can put together something more than a half measure when it comes to using Genesis in Poser.

    Anyway, I'm rambling on, and all I really wanted to say is that as much as DAZ has caused me a lot of grief I'm here to stay and they better not go bankrupt.

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited December 1969

    As much as I agree with people here like Kyoto Kid, I have to concur more with botdog. Believe me when I say that I, too, have my mild frustrations with some of the shading and posing functions, but I find DS4.5 is significantly more convenient for my workflow. Everything loads much faster (especially after you re-downloaded your content ;)), and I just love how everything in your Smart Content is labeled by type now, making differentiating between objects and materials much quicker. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,112
    edited December 1969

    ...I really won't be able to give a more objective evaluation on how 4.5 performs until I can run it in 64 bit with a dedicated GPU that supports an updated version of OpenGL.

    On my current system it's like trying to swim in Jell-O.

  • ZaarinZaarin Posts: 385
    edited December 1969

    I'm sticking around for now--I see no reason to leave just yet--but I can't say DAZ makes me feel terribly welcome these days. :/ I am pleased with how many Gen4 products have been released in the PA sale, though, so maybe we're turning a corner in post-Genesis D|S/Poser relations. On the other hand, these releases are coming from PAs, not DAZ. It's been a while since we've had a Gen4 PC product, for example.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Zaarin said:
    I'm sticking around for now--I see no reason to leave just yet--but I can't say DAZ makes me feel terribly welcome these days. :/ I am pleased with how many Gen4 products have been released in the PA sale, though, so maybe we're turning a corner in post-Genesis D|S/Poser relations. On the other hand, these releases are coming from PAs, not DAZ. It's been a while since we've had a Gen4 PC product, for example.

    Perhaps this is a recent turn of events but you may need to look again...


    Misu for V4

    Addison for Genesis and V4

    Taylor Hair

    Ksenia for V4


    These are all DAZ Originals within the last month or so.

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,102
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...I really won't be able to give a more objective evaluation on how 4.5 performs until I can run it in 64 bit with a dedicated GPU that supports an updated version of OpenGL.

    On my current system it's like trying to swim in Jell-O.


    Yeah, that's also a significant factor. It wasn't until I got my laptop with the 64-bit is when thing started to work much smoother.

  • ZaarinZaarin Posts: 385
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:
    Zaarin said:
    I'm sticking around for now--I see no reason to leave just yet--but I can't say DAZ makes me feel terribly welcome these days. :/ I am pleased with how many Gen4 products have been released in the PA sale, though, so maybe we're turning a corner in post-Genesis D|S/Poser relations. On the other hand, these releases are coming from PAs, not DAZ. It's been a while since we've had a Gen4 PC product, for example.

    Perhaps this is a recent turn of events but you may need to look again...


    Misu for V4

    Addison for Genesis and V4

    Taylor Hair

    Ksenia for V4


    These are all DAZ Originals within the last month or so.


    Hm, so they are. Yes, this is a recent turn of events...for a while we weren't even getting DAZ Originals for Gen4 for months at a time. But I did say PC items deliberately--I'm aware there have been a few new Gen4 DAZ Originals lately.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Zaarin said:
    RKane_1 said:
    Zaarin said:
    I'm sticking around for now--I see no reason to leave just yet--but I can't say DAZ makes me feel terribly welcome these days. :/ I am pleased with how many Gen4 products have been released in the PA sale, though, so maybe we're turning a corner in post-Genesis D|S/Poser relations. On the other hand, these releases are coming from PAs, not DAZ. It's been a while since we've had a Gen4 PC product, for example.

    Perhaps this is a recent turn of events but you may need to look again...


    Misu for V4

    Addison for Genesis and V4

    Taylor Hair

    Ksenia for V4


    These are all DAZ Originals within the last month or so.


    Hm, so they are. Yes, this is a recent turn of events...for a while we weren't even getting DAZ Originals for Gen4 for months at a time. But I did say PC items deliberately--I'm aware there have been a few new Gen4 DAZ Originals lately.

    Well, I am glad for Poser users. I will be even MORE glad when Genesis is made for Poser and I'm sure you guys will be too but I understand you guys have an affection for an older model. I am still rather fond of Apollo Maximus but there is very little support out there for him.

  • The Sultry LadyThe Sultry Lady Posts: 90
    edited December 1969

    I have to say that change, especially in software programs, is inevitable and one must adapt. Heck, I am a totally an Apple MAC user and I know how frustrating it is to find MAC programs compatible to Windows OS offerings. I have had and will anticipate good feelings and great expectations using DAZ Studio. Sure, 4.5 is frustrating at times, but I can at least get my arms around it and create art, whereas I cannot in Poser Pro 2012. I have yet to be able to figure that software package out and create anything. Some talk about the missing user manuals for DAZ. Try to find a manual for Poser Pro 2012 that will get one started in laymen terms. This is just one example. I really think that DAZ is right on target and see nothing but good things coming about. Growing pains are inevitable. For those of you that are leaving, stop and think before you close the door. Without much support from the user community, DAZ, as well as any other software company, will find it hard to evolve. Do not shoot yourselves in the foot. Stick to it and help DAZ be what you want it to be.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Not to mention, DAZ 4.5 is a change for the better. Making it a more stable application, more usable in other programs, making it hand-editable in a text editor for every file, making the SDK available right away...

    Geesh... everyone be quite... there may be a manual on the horizon....

    ...er...

    Don't hold your breath. *chuckle* *sigh*

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,112
    edited September 2012

    For those of you that are leaving, stop and think before you close the door. Without much support from the user community, DAZ, as well as any other software company, will find it hard to evolve. Do not shoot yourselves in the foot. Stick to it and help DAZ be what you want it to be.

    ...I've tried. Yes, sometimes my comments have been a bit on the harsh side but it is not that wish any ill will on Daz, On the contrary were it not for Daz Studio, I'd still be downing Advil like M&Ms; so I could hold a pencil or brush in my stiff arthritic hands for more than ten minutes.

    Sometimes those who care say things you don't really want to hear even though their only intent is to help you look at things from a different perspective. All many of us are asking so for Daz to "slow down" and focus on insuring the core of the application is stable instead of being distracted with the development of the next shiny new feature. I've thrown out many analogies to where this sort of practise can lead, and sometimes it is a total fail.

    No, I'm not saying that businesses isn't about not taking risks. Heck if in the 1950s Boeing didn't commit to the "Billion Dollar Gamble" (the 707 project) they would not have become the world's leader in aircraft development and manufacturing as well as respected for providing a stable and durable product line. Boeing also has one of the most rigorous and exhaustive testing programmes to insure that their product not only meet, but exceed the established standards and expectations. They actually build a full aeroplane and then proceed to try and physically rip it apart on a testing device known affectionately as 'The Rack" which is designed to simulate years of service life in a matter of weeks. In one instance the engineers actually celebrated snapping a wing spar of a 747. The stresses that were simulated were akin to the plane trying to pull out of a high Mach number supersonic dive which would never occur in its real service life. Now that is "beta testing" to the extreme.

    ...back to the matter at hand.

    I just as much would like to see Daz succeed, however, unlike Boeing they seem more concerned about the interior seating arrangement and passenger amenities than the airworthiness of the aeroplane itself. The ills with new website "update" (now heading into the fourth month) just reinforce the feelings that Daz still has difficulty focusing on the real needs of their core product and consequently, customer base.

    Yes, change, particularly in the digital media world, is inevitable, but that doesn't mean it has to be disruptive.

    As a small company Daz needs to focus their resources on one, rather than several projects at the same time. Boeing was already a large, successful, and highly respected company when they began on the 707. On the other hand, in the 3D CG world, Daz is still a relatively small player with little to no respect from the "upper echelons" of the media they are involved in. They cannot hope to do what an Autodesk or Corel can because they just do not have the staff and resources to support it. Yes, maybe focusing primarily on say the Studio application for now may put the Carrara and Bryce camps at odds for a bit, but Studio is Daz's "baby" so to say. It is what they have staked their future on. Carrara and Bryce were acquisitions from other software developers (and yes, I do have the latest releases of both). Granted, it was an admirable gesture rather than to just let these programmes die, but trying to cover all these bases while attempting to establish it's own Identity with it's own product has Daz looking more like the Keystone Kops rather than MI5.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • DogzDogz Posts: 745
    edited September 2012

    You know the first time I stumbled accross the Daz Store back in 2008, 3 thoughts came to mind
    1) Wow tinfoil shiney shiney! can i use this stuff in 3ds max?
    2) Why are all these models so cheap? they would cost hundreds on Turbosquid?
    3) I think this must be a Russian company.

    To this day I still have NO idea what made think of #3) :-/

    Post edited by Dogz on
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