Digital Art Zone

Hi dumorian - not hijacked at all. This is all good info. I didn’t use the transfer utility at this stage because I’m not done modelling yet, just wanted a smoother base shape to build on.
Also I am modelling on the Genesis base shape but posed (high heels) so the transfer utility is not that helpful in this situation. I will be using the figure setup tool instead.

LOL!!! Another side note… If I’m doing a male item, I use base Genesis. If I’m doing a female item, I use the base Genesis female which I always set to 100% so I don’t have to remember the percentage.

When I have done high heels, I have created a high heel pose and saved it. Then set for instance Genesis base female with this pose. So, I have my pose which would need to be shipped with a high heel item before I start. I then export this out as an obj to model around.

Then, I open Daz with Genesis base, set it to basic female, set the pose and then import my item. When doing the transfer I choose Genesis and here’s what I missed forever…. there is a pull down under that, “Item shape” which can be set to ‘Current’. Then select the transfer item. My stuff comes in fit to Genesis female in this pose. After the transfer, I can set the shape to anything (pretty much) and the item still fits. Male, V5, M5, pear shape, huge breasts, troll, hag, a combo of these or whatever else. On most items I don’t have poke through unless I do a number of very extreme shapes combined and even then, normally it does good until I do an extreme pose.

Note that I thought I could do this over the V5 mesh, but so far the item only fits to V5. Doing it over basic female is the only place I have been successful. Don’t ask me about the V5 ‘suit’ I created using up lots of hours to find it would not work for other shapes. (Note: I am still on Daz 4 on my workstation at the moment. I have not tried this V5 suit in 4.5 so don’t know if this is still the case?)

But, again, I’m new at this as well so might not be giving the best advice.

Patience has covered the legalities very well.

I just tested by importing Genesis into Blender, applying a cylinder to the calf and using shrinkwrap.  Gets a perfect fit, which works in both Hex and Studio.  It doesn’t alter the original mesh to comply with the Genesis mesh, just alters the shape to fit and you can specify the offset from the underlying mesh.  Nothing that couldn’t be done in Hex with a lot of work; just does it instantly.

I don’t see that this could be called a derivative; simply a faster method.

But hey, don’t take this as legal advice - it’s free and worth about what you pay for it!

Roygee I’m sure I read in another thread that shrinkwrapping is not allowed by Daz except for personal use.

I am pretty sure what they were referring to with not using shrink wrapping was that they didn’t want someone to shrinkwrap their char and sell it as a char.. etc… This is fundamentally different then using shrinkwrap to ‘fit’ and entirely different geometry to theirs as an accessory piece. If looking to put out the object for public consumption anyone can always email them for clarification.

I just submitted a question to Daz Publishing and should get an answer from the proverbial ‘Horse’s mouth’.

And yes, I think shrink wrapping is a software process which attaches to the mesh, for instance a copy of the Genesis mesh. When you do that, you don’t have control over it not grabbing Genesis geometry. What we are doing is sort of like “shrink wrapping”, but I don’t think the same precise meaning. At least that is what I’m assuming from my work in Silo with what I think they call the ‘Surface Tool’.

I’ll report back what Daz Publishing has to say.

Well how the question is asked makes a world of difference, as it has different implications. Hopefully someone from DS would come to the actual thread to see exactly what people are talking about so that their clarification applies to the specifics being discussed.

You’re right Gedd… Here is a copy of my question… Hope it is clear enough…

We have a discussion running on the Hexagon forum where this question came up. We wish to know if it is legal to do the following for public use.

1. Create a new mesh in Hexagon not using any of the Genesis geometry.
2. Save this to a obj.
3. Import the obj into Daz Studio.
4. Use one of the tools to fit your new mesh to Genesis, such as the transfer utility and smoothing modifier.
5. Export your mesh back out as an obj. or send to Hex.
6. Continue working on your personal mesh which now has been smoothed and fit via Daz Studio.
7. Use this mesh for public release.

When doing this, We do not see that any of the geometry from Genesis is being matched to the ‘new mesh’ geometry, but that the mesh is simply smoothed and perhaps moved in or out to better fit Genesis. The ‘new mesh’ is also not really shrinkwrapped to Genesis, as there is an offset in the smoothing.

The thread topic is located at:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/98572/

There are several images showing the process within the thread.

Also, I have been talking about Genesis, but would like to know if the same is true for any of the Daz figures?

The more I think about this the more I think we are in the clear. For instance, let’s say you created a skirt for the Daz store to fit Genesis. To me, one of the parts of that process is to import your skirt into Daz and fit it to the Genesis, so the final product uses this technology. What is the difference between doing it as the last step and doing it as an intermediate step? Even if it will be done again in the final processing of the new skirt.

I’m feeling pretty good that we are in the clear using this technique and I’m pretty excited about time savings.

Now… I do feel just a bit sad about this totally hijacked thread… but good stuff is coming out of it… or bad if Daz counters my opinion.

dumorian - 11 September 2012 04:08 PM

The more I think about this the more I think we are in the clear. For instance, let’s say you created a skirt for the Daz store to fit Genesis. To me, one of the parts of that process is to import your skirt into Daz and fit it to the Genesis, so the final product uses this technology. What is the difference between doing it as the last step and doing it as an intermediate step? Even if it will be done again in the final processing of the new skirt.

I’m feeling pretty good that we are in the clear using this technique and I’m pretty excited about time savings.

Now… I do feel just a bit sad about this totally hijacked thread… but good stuff is coming out of it… or bad if Daz counters my opinion.

One thing leads to another for sure but lots of good stuff covered here. Not to feel bad either way. Letter summarizes the topic well ... and it’s way better to find out now so we all can confidently work along approved pathways. One in which those making money get to keep it!

That was well worded, clear and definitive Dumorian.

There is one more issue to consider. A company in DAZ’s position isn’t always motivated to rush to clarifying some things as they don’t want to squash the artists creativity that feeds their market, but they also aren’t always in a rush to say yes to something that might open a can of worms for them. So as artists we are sometimes left to work in the grey area, do so with the idea of being fair to the other company to limit our chance of falling on the wrong side of the equation and hope for the best till we get told otherwise. Of course I am not speaking for DAZ in any way.. I am speaking totally in a generalized sense, and mostly so we don’t get too frustrated if we ever have a situation like this and the company doesn’t rush to reply.

Roygee I’m sure I read in another thread that shrinkwrapping is not allowed by Daz except for personal use

Yes, I’ve read many quasi-legal and simply speculative stuff about this - which is why I hasten to add that what I am saying is not legal opinion.

I would defy anybody to prove in a court of law that when I shrinkwrap my own mesh to fit a character and this is done without altering the edge flow of my mesh, that it was done on a particular character belonging to a particular company.  There are many other suppliers of characters out there and I could have used any of them - they are all pretty much the same.

Not that I have any plans on distributing anything other than my usual trains and boats and planes, so I’m in the clear;-)

The quick answer is, ‘can someone extract any non insignificant part of someone else’s intellectual property out of your work?’ The reason I put in non insignificant is to acknowledge without delving into the can of worms called fair use laws. Usually common sense will serve as a good guide.

Unfortunately common sense is not all that common and has very little place in law.  The fashion industry is based entirely on plagiarism and rip-offs.  They even have formulas on what percentage you can change someone else’s design to make it “original”.

Roygee - 12 September 2012 12:42 AM

Unfortunately common sense is not all that common and has very little place in law.  The fashion industry is based entirely on plagiarism and rip-offs.  They even have formulas on what percentage you can change someone else’s design to make it “original”.

And they fight over that too!