Digital Art Zone

Well, perhaps.
But we Carrara artists are the one’s who are missing the move. Daz3d is now opening up their doors again for new Published Artists to emerge from this community. WE are the one’s dropping the ball right now. We need to get our knowledge of Carrara put into the good use of creating some great products to help people along in our software. Daz has their hands full enough right now… and it’s with some VERY important developments. We need to follow Howie Farkes lead and produce some Carrara content that truly makes the community’s heads turn! And submit them to Daz.

As for the earlier post, I rarely, if ever swear at Carrara - and it almost never crashes on me. Sorry you feel duped.

3dView - 09 September 2012 01:19 PM

  . And looking for carrara stuff on the new web site is way too much work.

Over 180 Carrara items just searching on Carrara.  http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=Carrara&x=8&y=9

Dartanbeck - 09 September 2012 01:28 PM

Well, perhaps.
But we Carrara artists are the one’s who are missing the move. Daz3d is now opening up their doors again for new Published Artists to emerge from this community. WE are the one’s dropping the ball right now. We need to get our knowledge of Carrara put into the good use of creating some great products to help people along in our software. Daz has their hands full enough right now… and it’s with some VERY important developments. We need to follow Howie Farkes lead and produce some Carrara content that truly makes the community’s heads turn! And submit them to Daz.

As for the earlier post, I rarely, if ever swear at Carrara - and it almost never crashes on me. Sorry you feel duped.

That’s good to hear! Wish I had the time and knowledge to be a PA. Maybe some day.

One of these days I’m buying your dragon animation set!

drstress - 09 September 2012 12:51 PM

DAZ is much more interested in selling content than software. Almost all of their development is aimed at Genesis. That’s where their business model is oriented. I suspect gen 4 sales are getting soft, so they roll out gen 5. I for one am not interested in buying a bunch of new stuff so I can pose a skimpy dressed perfect body figure. I will leave that to the 14 year olds.

I have a feeling the investors were putting pressure on DAZ to roll out the new stuff since sales were down from the economy. Maybe also because V4 was older, but V4 still has a ton of new stuff coming out, especially over at Renderosity and RuntimeDNA. I think it was the typical business thinking of “don’t blame the economy just get out there and sell.” I heard that in radio and from even from friends in the restaurant biz. The push for ever increasing sales is nuts. A couple of DAZ staffers even said a few months ago that Genesis and Studio were rushed before being quite ready (probably to be in the competition for the 3D World Magazine award).

All DAZ’s recent work has been on Genesis (to get it to work in Poser and fix the problems in Studio), and also refining Studio, getting the new website and store working, and getting the documentation problem under control starting with Studio. And some work also on the program known as Carrara mainly with bug fixes, bullett and of course Genesis and the new DAZ file format which allows better working between Studio and Carrrara.

drstress - 09 September 2012 12:51 PM

When I found Carrara, I got really excited… wow, all of these features at this price. The promise is nothing short of fantastic. But…the reality is maddening, in short CRASH, CRASH, CRASH…

Not many problems at all here unless I do something stupid. Mostly Windows XP Pro 32 bit and sometimes recently Windows XP x64, but I don’t have everything over on that box yet. My Vista machine’s mobo died and I can’t afford Windows 7 and the Windows 8 beta download keeps stopping half way through. The crashes with Carrara and all programs for that matter on my x64 box stopped when I upgraded my video card drivers.

drstress - 09 September 2012 12:51 PM

I believe DAZ’s software development suffers from one major flaw…the lack of thorough debugging before releasing or what used to be called ‘Software Engineering’. I suspect they contract out pieces of the development and then hope it works when they patch it together. They don’t seem to have, on staff, in house, a group whose only task is to try to break and crash their programs…find its limitations.

If they had that we wouldn’t have those low DAZ prices. It’s a tradeoff. Those of us who are brave and patient enough are the beta testers. I usually don’t have time to contribute to that part of the cause.
The usual procedure is that they have most of their developers working on one program at a time. They’ve had a few working on Carrara while mainly work has been ongoing on Genesis and Studio, but now that Studio is working better with 4.5 out, maybe those folks are now working on Carrara again. I hope so at least.

I have taken my time responding to this thread because I wanted to think my post through because so many people had insightful things to say.

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:05 AM

We are fortunate that DAZ has kept it alive and we can usually upgrade for very little compared to other programs. I remember that folks from DAZ have stated before that if Carrara sold better, they could develop it more as the money is alotted for development based on sales. .

I am very grateful DAZ has kept Carrara alive and affordable. I think DAZ should slow down development of Carrara. I don’t want it to stop, but many of us are not using Carrara at it’s fullest potential. I’m running C7Pro. I barely go into the modelling room and I don’t use the other rooms to the fullest either.

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:26 PM

The resource dollars have always been directed more at Studio because of its much larger base and what it brings in re: content and users and it already had a big user base here. Carrara didn’t when it was bought from Eovia. We’d probably have more plugins if Carrara users would buy them from the folks who make them.

Carrara plugins would sell better if (A) people knew what they did, (B) understood how the plugins improved workflow, (C) were better promoted on the site. I have the aniBlock importer. I also have a few plugins from Fenric too. I don’t fully understand what they’re supposed to do and I can’t get them to work, but I own them. LOL!
Just no time to hunt and peck to try and figure them out.
Also, the poor economy isn’t helping either.

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:26 PM

DAZ has to setup better default settings for Carrara and Studio and explicit instructions on how to make DAZ and Poser content look great in Carrara and Studio. And not the old guess and by gosh method. Specifics. That would be one of THE best things they could do. I know there are the Carrara users who really don’t care about DAZ content, but if they could really get it to work well in making DAZ content look great simply and easily, we might be able to get more of the content buyers to give Carrara a try and make more sales and more development dollars for Carrara..

This is true. We need to be able to get better instructions on Carrara. A proper instruction book and a “Secrets of” type book (even if it’s just a pdf) would be great.
Personally, I think Carrara gets better renders right out of the box than Poser or DS.
Having to depend on the forums and random YouTube videos for training makes learning Carrara difficult.
I suggested once before that it would be great if Vendors created a walkthrough for some of their promo pictures to show users how to get the look of the products. I remember when I was a kid, plastic models used to come with instructions on how to paint the model to look like the picture on the box. I thought a similar principle could be used here. Last time I suggested it, I got rocks thrown at me here in the forums.

Kevin Sanderson - 09 September 2012 12:05 PM

I believe we’d be further along with Carrara if Genesis hadn’t caused such a negative uproar in the Poser community. That probably hurt DAZ’s business to some degree as the Poser folks over at Renderosity were making such a huge stink. That would explain why they are so focused on Genesis and content is the main business, and fixing the problems of Studio, which was also rushed would put their other work on the back burner.

I can’t really blame Poser users making a commotion. Genesis is such a radical shift. I hadn’t expected it would be something that could ONLY be used in DazStudio. I looked forward to a new figure until that point. Talk about radical shift, there are props designed for Gen 1 that I can still use. Gen 5 stuff can only be used in Daz4 or better. I use Gen 1 hair sometimes in C7Pro. Can’t do that with Gen5 stuff.

Kevin Sanderson - 09 September 2012 12:05 PM

I try to buy most Carrara content when I can afford to. But that comes to the other problem. The economy. It’s been stinking. Thankfully it’s coming around but not fast enough. I still can’t buy at the level I was doing for new software and content 4 years ago. I’m making around $10,000+ less a year than I was then..

I’m in the same boat. I do this professionally and I’m making about HALF of what I did 4 years ago. Customers are much harder to bring in, more expensive to service, and harder to lock into a long term contract. I would buy much more Carrara content, but the dollars aren’t there.

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:05 AM

we have had a contentious lot here who are very negative and whine and kill sales on their own.  Some are ignorant and some are downright dumb.

I can’t really agree with you on this point. People who are having problems with the software are having problems with the software. People don’t complain because things are going right,they complain because things are going wrong. If a person is having a good experience, that’s GREAT! Makes me happy to see, but we shouldn’t disparage someone who is struggling.

Now for my part, I love being able to use Daz/Poser content. I can take even a Gen1 prop into the Shader room (which I really don’t know all that well) and do a few things and make it look like a brand new prop. I really hope we can get more Carrara specific stuff. I have purchased quite a bit and will hopefully pick up more during the PA sale (Hopefully, from Holyforest).

Dartanbeck - 09 September 2012 01:28 PM

Well, perhaps.
But we Carrara artists are the one’s who are missing the move. Daz3d is now opening up their doors again for new Published Artists to emerge from this community. WE are the one’s dropping the ball right now. We need to get our knowledge of Carrara put into the good use of creating some great products to help people along in our software. Daz has their hands full enough right now… and it’s with some VERY important developments. We need to follow Howie Farkes lead and produce some Carrara content that truly makes the community’s heads turn! And submit them to Daz.

How is Daz opening up the Doors for new PA artists?

In order to get more artists we need to get the user base to fully understand how the software works.
Can’t put the cart before the horse.

Kevin helped us with this reminder “Over 180 Carrara items just searching on Carrara.  http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=Carrara&x=8&y=9”

      Yes , you are right Kevin. But how about if Daz would put that whole search item as one of the drop down menu items on the front page of store. . Right now—-If you just look at the drop down menu items and you click on software Carrara—-you will only see 34 items . If people do not think of of searching—-they miss out.

      In merchandising—you have to get the product in the customer face . And that’s just all I am saying. They don’t with Carrara very well. In my opinion.

      And I do not want to sound like I am negative to Carrara—I totally think its a wonderful application. It does a whole lot of things and On the last 8.1 production build for windows—its great.  Working on a small personal project right now with it and its been solid.

      So——I am just one of those users who hopes for best…..but still Daz can be a little frustrating sometimes with how they handle Carrara so a little arm chair quarterbacking helps a little now and then to blow off some frustration while rendering. lol

3dView - 09 September 2012 04:49 PM

Kevin helped us with this reminder “Over 180 Carrara items just searching on Carrara.  http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=Carrara&x=8&y=9”

      Yes , you are right Kevin. But how about if Daz would put that whole search item as one of the drop down menu items on the front page of store. . Right now—-If you just look at the drop down menu items and you click on software Carrara—-you will only see 34 items . If people do not think of of searching—-they miss out.

      In merchandising—you have to get the product in the customer face . And that’s just all I am saying. They don’t with Carrara very well. In my opinion.

      And I do not want to sound like I am negative to Carrara—I totally think its a wonderful application. It does a whole lot of things and On the last 8.1 production build for windows—its great.  Working on a small personal project right now with it and its been solid.

      So——I am just one of those users who hopes for best…..but still Daz can be a little frustrating sometimes with how they handle Carrara so a little arm chair quarterbacking helps a little now and then to blow off some frustration while rendering. lol

I think most users hope for the best for Carrara and Daz.

Even if people search, some items come up, some come up that aren’t even Carrara items. I searched for Carrara hair and found many items that weren’t Carrara hair or even hair.

You’re right, the product needs to be right in people’s faces.

Once again, all of this discussion comes down to a simple arithmetic problem….

If you sell 200 copies at $400 a piece, that’s $80,000.

That’s it. That’s the whole issue. That probably won’t even pay for one developer to work for one year, much less some folks to work on marketing so that everyone will know how awesome Carrara is, or website designers to fix the website problems, or bug fixers to check and fix the bugs, or on and on…..

If you owned the company, would you take a chance and spend $500,000 (that you probably don’t have and probably can’t get) to make Carrara and its marketing and stability and awesomeness better than it is today, realizing that you’d have to sell at least five times as many copies just to break even? When everyone can download DAZ Studio and Hex and Bryce and Blender for free? At a time when the economy is sagging, and obtaining loans and investor $$ is extremely difficult, if not impossible, especially if you don’t have a really, really good sales pitch to show how you’re going to get that money back? 

That’s a huge risk, and one that I doubt anyone here would make. It’s not about love for Carrara. It has absolutely nothing to do with love for Carrara. It’s about running a business and trying to make money, and investing where you have a very good likelihood to make your money back, with a profit. And right now that’s content. You may not like that answer, but it’s a fact.

tsarist - 09 September 2012 03:34 PM

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:26 PM

DAZ has to setup better default settings for Carrara and Studio and explicit instructions on how to make DAZ and Poser content look great in Carrara and Studio. And not the old guess and by gosh method. Specifics. That would be one of THE best things they could do. I know there are the Carrara users who really don’t care about DAZ content, but if they could really get it to work well in making DAZ content look great simply and easily, we might be able to get more of the content buyers to give Carrara a try and make more sales and more development dollars for Carrara..

 

This is true. We need to be able to get better instructions on Carrara. A proper instruction book and a “Secrets of” type book (even if it’s just a pdf) would be great.
Personally, I think Carrara gets better renders right out of the box than Poser or DS.
Having to depend on the forums and random YouTube videos for training makes learning Carrara difficult.
I suggested once before that it would be great if Vendors created a walkthrough for some of their promo pictures to show users how to get the look of the products. I remember when I was a kid, plastic models used to come with instructions on how to paint the model to look like the picture on the box. I thought a similar principle could be used here. Last time I suggested it, I got rocks thrown at me here in the forums.

No rocks from me, of course. That’s a great comparison! I remember those old model kits… one of my older brothers used to enjoy working with those. DimensionTheory does include some videos in one of his recent packs that makes things more clear. I think he also had a PDF in there, too.

tsarist - 09 September 2012 03:34 PM

Kevin Sanderson - 08 September 2012 02:05 AM

we have had a contentious lot here who are very negative and whine and kill sales on their own.  Some are ignorant and some are downright dumb.

 

I can’t really agree with you on this point. People who are having problems with the software are having problems with the software. People don’t complain because things are going right,they complain because things are going wrong. If a person is having a good experience, that’s GREAT! Makes me happy to see, but we shouldn’t disparage someone who is struggling.

If they are really struggling, I agree. But I’m talking about those who obviously have system issues of some kind when everyone else can’t duplicate their issues. Yet they go on blindly insisting their computer is wonderful meanwhile spreading a ton of negativity and venom, and at times blasting away at DAZ employees trying to help. I’d much rather see people calm way down before posting and then politely state what is wrong. It’s even more grating when they blast away at people like Andy (3dage) when he’s the most patient and helpful soul on the planet.

JoeMamma2000 - 09 September 2012 05:16 PM

That’s a huge risk, and one that I doubt anyone here would make. It’s not about love for Carrara. It has absolutely nothing to do with love for Carrara. It’s about running a business and trying to make money, and investing where you have a very good likelihood to make your money back, with a profit. And right now that’s content. You may not like that answer, but it’s a fact.

Seems very clear to me. And to keep Carrara rolling along at any kind of improving pace does require sales of content and software which I’ve been saying forever. A couple years ago some folks got all upset with me then for saying that. DAZ spends money on Studio because it helps sell content. If we could get the content folks interested in Carrara (buyers and makers) that could help keep it alive. It may just take some nice shiny pictures to get it rolling again like what happened when Howie’s scenes hit the market.

The only way I can think of where we would see dramatic improvement, though (other than outstanding to die for plugins), would be if someone actually used it to make a film project and kicked in some development cash - that’s where messiah’s improvements have come from (granted slowly since it’s mostly Fori doing the work - and use on multiple projects) and similarly with Animation:Master but with the owner of it trying to make a point in that instance. They each have much smaller developer staffs compared to DAZ. But that is a rarity these days to see someone with money to burn and it’s not to be counted on.

I would really like to see Snaps in the assembly room / vertex modeler for Carrara, like Hexagon has.
They would be very useful and eliminate a lot of back and forth between views to check alignments when doing more Arch Vis type work.

DG

Kevin Sanderson - 09 September 2012 06:01 PM

The only way I can think of where we would see dramatic improvement, though (other than outstanding to die for plugins), would be if someone actually used it to make a film project and kicked in some development cash .

yeah, that would sure help a lot. However, after you get the big surge in sales from everyone seeing some awesome work from someone who really knew what they were doing, and bought and started using Carrara, suddenly the reality would set in, and people would start asking questions like, “hey, wait a minute, it doesn’t even have fluids? And the fire is pretty suck. And the smoke sucks too. And no cloth?? And it doesn’t even have a fancy renderer? Hell, Blender is free and it has all that stuff. And my stuff looks nowhere near as cool as that independent film looked. What they hell did I pay all that money for?”

If your only response is, “yeah, but it has 180 plugins you can pay for, too”, you’re gonna have a problem.

It’s like the cart before the horse. You can’t advertise what you ain’t got. So you need to make Carrara awesome first, somehow, then advertise it as being awesome using an awesome independent film or whatever.

It’s a fairly impossible situation, and really that’s why development and improvement of really complicated software like this is an extremely long term project that takes a lot of risk over a long time. Personally, I think Carrara is so far behind the times in terms of fancy features that everyone wants that it will likely never recover.

Dartanbeck - 09 September 2012 01:28 PM

As for the earlier post, I rarely, if ever swear at Carrara - and it almost never crashes on me. Sorry you feel duped.

yeah, I tend to agree. If there’s one thing that the PC version of Carrara has going for it, and historically (at least in the time I’ve been using it) has had going for it, is that it is pretty stable. Crashes are extremely rare, though with the lastest betas I’m getting some goofy error messages and an occasional lockup. But previous release versions have been surprisingly stable, IMO.

Sounds like the Mac versions are a different story, though.

Kevin Sanderson - 09 September 2012 06:01 PM

If we could get the content folks interested in Carrara (buyers and makers) that could help keep it alive. It may just take some nice shiny pictures to get it rolling again like what happened when Howie’s scenes hit the market.

This makes sense. There is a lot of content out there already for Poser/Daz. I approached a few vendors and offered to test in Carrara and make a few promo renders. To date I have approached about 4 or 5 vendors. Vendors who claimed their sales were not what they had hoped. Want to guess how many of them took me up on my offer? Hell, I didn’t even hear back from them. I guess sales weren’t that soft after all.

Over in Renderosity, there is so much content that no one has tested in Daz or Carrara. None of the people I approached had an interest.

Stupid thing is it couldn’t help but boost sales. Even if they only sold a few extra items, it would be worth it.