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Bryce Planet Creation?
Posted: 26 August 2012 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I was thinking about different ways to make a planet in Bryce but i don’t want something as simple as applying a texture to a sphere. I was thinking a full in depth planet from one side of the globe to the other. Is there by chance anyway to maybe make a sphere (as the core) put a bigger water sphere over top of it (to represent the ocean) and possibly pull ground up from the core (for the land) and just add forests and things from there? I know i could make individual scenes like a forest or a city and etc but does anyone have any ideas how to make a full blown planet you could quite literally travel from one side to the other and even go under the ocean. All suggestions are greatly appreciated even if its just a small idea I’m open to anything. Thanks in advance.

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Posted: 26 August 2012 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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In theory it’s possible. The problem being that you’d most likely run out of memory in Bryce and it would either crash out or take 2 hours to complete every tweak.

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Posted: 26 August 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Rather than create the whole planet in detail, why not show it from space with seas,
land etc, and give the impression you’re going to land, then just create terrains to mimic the
landing zone?

That seems more do-able.

Sounds like a great project, and one I’m working on for Mars.

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Posted: 26 August 2012 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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TheSavage64 - 26 August 2012 04:55 PM

In theory it’s possible. The problem being that you’d most likely run out of memory in Bryce and it would either crash out or take 2 hours to complete every tweak.

hmm i guess that would be an issue kinda didn’t think of the physical limitations of the program. anyway i could do anything to get more memory? any suggestions?

megacal - 26 August 2012 05:46 PM

Rather than create the whole planet in detail, why not show it from space with seas,
land etc, and give the impression you’re going to land, then just create terrains to mimic the
landing zone?

That seems more do-able.

Sounds like a great project, and one I’m working on for Mars.

I would really like to do the full thing. I’m not to big on the movie magic thing although that seems like the only option at the moment. Id really like to be able to show the whole thing instead of only showing it in pieces. You know what i mean? It is much more do-able than the whole planet but I’m not ready to give in lol. Can you think of anything else?

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Posted: 26 August 2012 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Can you think of anything else?

Nope. smile 

Unless it’s a reeeeaaaallllly small planet. LOL

Look at Sci-Fi movies and how they handle it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one
like you’re trying to do.

If you’re doing just stills, you can only see so much at once, and if you are
doing an animation, again you can only see so much at once.

Instead of one long scene and perspective, it’s more interesting anyway to break it up into
cuts from different camera angles, and perspectives, e.g. from the cockpit,
in back of the ship, from a distance in front, back, side, etc.

I’m no expert, just thinking of how I’ve seen it done professionally. smile

E.g. the ship in Forbidden Planet approaching and landing.

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Posted: 26 August 2012 11:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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dsmccurdy - 26 August 2012 06:56 PM

hmm i guess that would be an issue kinda didn’t think of the physical limitations of the program. anyway i could do anything to get more memory? any suggestions?

Well 64bit aware code is a start with a 64bit processor. But we’re talking about a whole planet here… For a single Bryce file to hold all the 3D geometric information plus all the thousands of different materials is asking a lot too much.

dsmccurdy - 26 August 2012 06:56 PM

Can you think of anything else?

Yes, it already exists, it’s called Google Earth. LOL

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Posted: 26 August 2012 11:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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dsmccurdy,

In this archive thread you will find a tutorial of sorts describing how to make planets in Bryce in just the manner you need. I never finished the tutorial so if you get started on it let me know how far you’ve gotten and I will begin preparing the other part of it. To display the archive properly you might need to utilize this script by GreaseMonkey.


http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=182419&highlight=planet

Cyberfox’s GreaseMonkey script?  http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/4005/


Lots of fun.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 07:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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The closest to what you are looking for was achieved by a program called “MojoWorld”:

http://www.pandromeda.com/products/

A set of fractal algorithms was used to create sand grain level detail at any point on a planet (model). The use of fractals enabled the detail to be created on the fly instead of all being held in memory at once. The landscapes created weren’t random, the same view would be seen on repeated visits to the same spot. The planet models were small enough to share online, yet anyone with the program could zoom in to the highest detail.

All extremely clever, but as you’ve probably guessed from my use of the past tense, it’s now sadly an abandoned or suspended project.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I have to agree with TheSavage64, one huge continuous planet with enough close up detail you could travel to different locations on it and render a decent looking scene is just too much to expect from Bryce and a desktop computer. Now a smaller planet that is only meant to be viewed from space but detailed enough to make out bodies of water and land masses that would be doable but if you actually went to the surface of it to render a scene it wouldn’t look like a compelling 3D world.

To do what you’re describing would require so much more power and memory then any computer available today. Plus if you were to make it from scratch and wanted it to look as good close up as it does from a distance, you’d likely need a good number of years to complete it and you’d likely end up with a scene file that is 1 terabyte or more in size.

It sounds to me like you’re thinking about the 3D world the same way you think about the real world. You can’t really do that though because while it looks very much the same it isn’t. The bottomline though is there is no need to have a whole world that’s detailed enough you can just go to any spot on it’s surface and be able to render a detailed scene. What it would take to have that would outweigh any benefit one might realize from having such a world. So instead we as 3D artists learn to adapt by only creating just enough to fill the camera.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 10:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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_ PJF _ - 27 August 2012 07:37 AM

The closest to what you are looking for was achieved by a program called “MojoWorld”:

http://www.pandromeda.com/products/

A set of fractal algorithms was used to create sand grain level detail at any point on a planet (model). The use of fractals enabled the detail to be created on the fly instead of all being held in memory at once. The landscapes created weren’t random, the same view would be seen on repeated visits to the same spot. The planet models were small enough to share online, yet anyone with the program could zoom in to the highest detail.

All extremely clever, but as you’ve probably guessed from my use of the past tense, it’s now sadly an abandoned or suspended project.

Having this technology in Bryce would be super… but I guess for the time being DAZ 3D have got enough to keep them occupied…

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Posted: 27 August 2012 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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“MojoWorld” - is/was that not Doc Mojo’s (Ken Musgrave’s) product?

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Posted: 27 August 2012 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I’m sure I read that one of the people involved in creating Mojoworld was one of the early Bryce developers too.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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@TheSavage64 - in a nutshell, Ken Musgrave was an assistant with Benoît Mandelbrot and the first one known to use those fractals to create landscapes on the university computer. Eric Wenger took those ideas and wrote a program for the Mac. That was the seed of Bryce. Ken had worked for Bryce at Metacreations for quite a while. Another important name is Kay Krause, who designed an interface for the artists, not the scientists.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Horo - 27 August 2012 10:32 AM

“MojoWorld” - is/was that not Doc Mojo’s (Ken Musgrave’s) product?

Yes, still is his baby. I’ve detected some conflict and politics (with a small p) behind the scenes adding to the basic issue of profitability preventing things moving forward. No idea on the details as I’ve not followed it that closely.

I purchased MojoWorld 1 to support the project as I thought (still do) it was amazing, even though I knew the interface was impenetrable for me. The manual still glows in the dark (literally) on my shelf.


Certainly, Bryce “as we know it” really came about when Eric Wenger’s work was combined with Kai Krause interface notions, though the input of Sree Kotay and Phil Clevenger should not be overlooked. Those four are listed as the original creators of Bryce in the manuals for 2, 3 and 4. (No mention of any since, perhaps for legal reasons.)

Ken Musgrave had direct involvement in the development team for Bryce4, mostly by adding significant fractal capabilities to the terrain generator.

Hard to believe it was that long ago.

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Posted: 27 August 2012 02:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Interestingly enough my serial number for Bryce 5 starts with KAI.  (Corel version on CD)

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Posted: 27 August 2012 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Those are worth a fortune on the collectors market.

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