Digital Art Zone

Kendall Sears - 29 May 2012 06:18 AM

Yes, the forums are a mess.  However, the store takes precedence.  The old store was failing, and there were PC members screaming about leaving then, as well.  Manpower isn’t free.  Supporting the old software was becoming a drain on resources.  Better a short term pain, quickly forgotten, than a long term chronic ailment that bleeds resources until nothing is left.

Could the transition have been better handled?  Sure, in many ways.  We have what we have and we either play with the hand we’ve got or not.  It’s the individuals’ call.

Kendall

I look at the “many” people who are bailing as a very serious problem. Why? These aren’t some new people who just showed up. Many of these people aren’t always in the forums. I look at the dates these people joined up. I’m seeing 2003, 2004, all the way up to 2007. Real veterans. THOSE are the people that when I see them say “bye bye”, I say “uh-oh.”

No one has said the forums take precedence over the store. We all KNOW the store has to come first.
It would be nice to be able to actually shop at the store.
I didn’t see ANY people screaming about the old store, much less threatening to leave.

I think the only reason some people even admit there is even a problem is that this is such an obvious clusterfu*k.

Yeah, the Titanic just had a little mishap.
Those drowning people are just coming up with “non-issue” “excuses of the moment.”

tsarist - 02 June 2012 02:53 PM

Kendall Sears - 29 May 2012 06:18 AM

Yes, the forums are a mess.  However, the store takes precedence.  The old store was failing, and there were PC members screaming about leaving then, as well.  Manpower isn’t free.  Supporting the old software was becoming a drain on resources.  Better a short term pain, quickly forgotten, than a long term chronic ailment that bleeds resources until nothing is left.

Could the transition have been better handled?  Sure, in many ways.  We have what we have and we either play with the hand we’ve got or not.  It’s the individuals’ call.

Kendall

I look at the “many” people who are bailing as a very serious problem. Why? These aren’t some new people who just showed up. Many of these people aren’t always in the forums. I look at the dates these people joined up. I’m seeing 2003, 2004, all the way up to 2007. Real veterans. THOSE are the people that when I see them say “bye bye”, I say “uh-oh.”

No one has said the forums take precedence over the store. We all KNOW the store has to come first.
It would be nice to be able to actually shop at the store.
I didn’t see ANY people screaming about the old store, much less threatening to leave.

I think the only reason some people even admit there is even a problem is that this is such an obvious clusterfu*k.

Yeah, the Titanic just had a little mishap.
Those drowning people are just coming up with “non-issue” “excuses of the moment.”

General business principles state that at any given time 10% of one’s customers are looking for a reason to leave.  It is these customers that new companies entering an industry look to siphon off for their initial customer base.  The same principles also state that 5% of one’s customers will account for 95% of one’s support costs.  (Generally called the 5/95 rule.)  Of that 5% approximately half (2-2.5% of one’s customers) will be extremely vocal about any perceived negative, whether it truly affects them or not.  It is this “vocal detractor” group that marketing departments are tasked with negating.

As with every company who offers a product/service, DAZ has these same issues.  The fact is that in the forums, there is a very vocal contingent of people who constantly issue ultimatums.  Their conditions vary as much as the direction of the wind, but in the PC the most used threat is “I’ll cancel my membership!”  Most never follow through on their threats.

I’d rather help fix the issues than to gripe about them.  To date, I’ve never seen a gripe that has ever fixed a problem.  Every time, it’s effort that gets the job done—not complaining.

Kendall

Kendall, it seems you know a lot about business but nothing about customer service.  Customers are more willing to cut you some slack if you inform them of any problems in advance of them experiencing them. You manage the customers expectations. People are coming here expecting to buy things with no problems. Some people are having problems. They expect to be able to log in to their accounts and not see another users name. They expect the forums to work in a certain way - they aren’t. Then they start reading the forums and find out that these problems has been going on for a while and there is no official word from Daz. That annoys them. There would be a lot complaining and less work for the mods if Daz HQ put out an official email stating they are having problems with the website, they are working on it and provided regular updates, sticky at the top of the forums - what we are working on now and a banner across the store so new customers aren’t turned off.

As for PC customers -  I don’t think it’s a case of PC customers threatening to leave, it’s a case of their memberships coming up for renewal and not being given the option for the reduced membership. If they can’t get the reduced rate they’re not going to renew. Then they’re the international customers who can’t actually add a credit card. Once you lose customers due to bad experiences it is very hard to get them back.

anikad - 03 June 2012 09:07 AM

Kendall, it seems you know a lot about business but nothing about customer service.  Customers are more willing to cut you some slack if you inform them of any problems in advance of them experiencing them. You manage the customers expectations. People are coming here expecting to buy things with no problems. Some people are having problems. They expect to be able to log in to their accounts and not see another users name. They expect the forums to work in a certain way - they aren’t. Then they start reading the forums and find out that these problems has been going on for a while and there is no official word from Daz. That annoys them. There would be a lot complaining and less work for the mods if Daz HQ put out an official email stating they are having problems with the website, they are working on it and provided regular updates, sticky at the top of the forums - what we are working on now and a banner across the store so new customers aren’t turned off.

As for PC customers -  I don’t think it’s a case of PC customers threatening to leave, it’s a case of their memberships coming up for renewal and not being given the option for the reduced membership. If they can’t get the reduced rate they’re not going to renew. Then they’re the international customers who can’t actually add a credit card. Once you lose customers due to bad experiences it is very hard to get them back.

I absolutely agree that communications are necessary, and in my business I make sure communications are always there.  However, I cannot control DAZ’s communications, and for me to grouse about it publicly does no one any good.  There is a difference between reporting a problem and complaining about a problem.

Yes, people expect a certain experience.  Right now they may, or may not, be getting the experience they expect.  For those who are getting what they are expecting, it is likely that no one is hearing from them.  Those who are not are more vocal.  It’s a fact of business.  However, getting upset and using less than helpful language in public, helps no one.

There are both situations happening.  In either case, the correct solution is to take it to the “customer support” department.  The forums are not going to get a resolution to the problem.  One thing to remember is:  The forums are not an accepted method for problem resolution.  The forums are for informal discussions, not for getting support.

Kendall

Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 08:42 AM

General business principles state that at any given time 10% of one’s customers are looking for a reason to leave.  It is these customers that new companies entering an industry look to siphon off for their initial customer base.  The same principles also state that 5% of one’s customers will account for 95% of one’s support costs.  (Generally called the 5/95 rule.)  Of that 5% approximately half (2-2.5% of one’s customers) will be extremely vocal about any perceived negative, whether it truly affects them or not.  It is this “vocal detractor” group that marketing departments are tasked with negating.

As with every company who offers a product/service, DAZ has these same issues.  The fact is that in the forums, there is a very vocal contingent of people who constantly issue ultimatums.  Their conditions vary as much as the direction of the wind, but in the PC the most used threat is “I’ll cancel my membership!”  Most never follow through on their threats.
Kendall

The kind of customer I love is the one that forks over the cash and keeps his lips shut no matter how sideways things go. They also defend the company against the “unreasonable” customers.

The “Vocal Detractor” group is the group any intelligent person will listen to FIRST if they want to stay in business. These “Detractors” are your hardcore fans. They buy your stuff and support you in the lean years. They are true blue.
Further, the “Vocal Detractor” group is saying the same thing the bulk of the people are thinking or feeling.

Just like Megadeth said in Holy Wars the Punishment Due, “Because I don’t say it, don’t mean I ain’t thinking it”

Most companies don’t take the threat of cancelled memberships until it’s too late. The cable companies are feeling the pain now. Remember Blockbuster? I know some insiders there and unhappy customers did them in, more than Netflix and the internet alone.

Then again, “business principle theory” is always more comforting than actual facts.

Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 08:42 AM

I’d rather help fix the issues than to gripe about them.  To date, I’ve never seen a gripe that has ever fixed a problem.  Every time, it’s effort that gets the job done—not complaining.

Kendall

Complaining gets things done because silence denotes satisfaction.

I come round to your job and give you a pay rise, I might not hear much from you.
I cut your pay and if I don’t hear from you, I’ll think everything is cool and maybe do a little more trimming, just because “you obviously didn’t mind.”

Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 09:23 AM

I absolutely agree that communications are necessary, and in my business I make sure communications are always there.  However, I cannot control DAZ’s communications, and for me to grouse about it publicly does no one any good.  There is a difference between reporting a problem and complaining about a problem.

This is exactly what most businesses like to hear. Most companies like for us to keep quiet or report a problem to the email address or “:suggestion box” that nobody reads. Keep people isolated, quiet. Musn’t gumble.
When you know you’re not alone. When you know other people feel as you feel, you can make real change or at the very least effectively lobby for what you want.

Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 09:23 AM

There are both situations happening.  In either case, the correct solution is to take it to the “customer support” department.  The forums are not going to get a resolution to the problem.  One thing to remember is:  The forums are not an accepted method for problem resolution.  The forums are for informal discussions, not for getting support.

Kendall

The forums are very much for support.
Have a problem with the software? Goto the forums.
Can’t get your product to load? Goto the forums.
Need to know how to do something with the software? Goto the forums.
The forums ARE Daz’s customer service department for everything but payments and the like.

But, you know what?
Everyone should just be quiet and say nothing.
“Business Theory” says if you complain you’re a “detractor” and the marketing dept is tasked to negate you.

I think that in this instance what Kendall is saying is that the forums are not the place for support issues that obviously cannot be solved by forum members, no matter how knowledgable they may be.

Normally this sort of problem is best dealt with through the support system.

However, because a lot of people are experiencing the same problems we have asked for these to be posted in the official threads provided for this purpose, which are located at the top of the Commons, and sticky, so they don’t get lost.

These threads are being monitored and the information in them is updated when neccessary.