New Forum Issue - I think

Wiccan1Wiccan1 Posts: 164
edited May 2012 in The Commons

The forum is acting strangely... I was logged into the store, but when I came here I was logged out. Not a big deal huh?

Well it wouldn't let me post I had no option but viewing it. It was only corrected when I had to delete the cookies AGAIN.

Now, that I am able to post again, I can't see my full WYSIWYG editor, just what yiou see in the pic below....

I know Daz must be going nuts, and I feel badly for them..... But, I am too. It is so hard to do anything on the site.

Of particular upset are:
1) Required products on store pages are insane.
2) No end date to sales is very difficult, unless I am the only one on a budget.... :-/
3) I'm afraid to use the store. I buy gift certificates to ration my spening. I am due to grab another but I am afraid it will get screwed up.... :red:
4) No useable order history
5) No warning system to tell me I have purchased something.
6) I won't go on here.

One suggestion, I know no company wants to spend extra money, but it may be time to bring in some software guru's. I think every platform has some. They could come in and work with your in house stuff and get things rolling. God, I hope you do take advantage of this!

It is sooooooooooo hard to shop, browse, or even use the forums here (now).


BTW, anyone know when the SS Pro Bundle will go off sale???

Post edited by Wiccan1 on

Comments

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'n all my years on the internet, I have never seen a store/forum transition as disastrous as this. But since DAZ was in the process of alienating half their customer base anyway, I guess this finishes the job for them...

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,337
    edited May 2012

    Wiccan1 said:
    The forum is acting strangely... I was logged into the store, but when I came here I was logged out. Not a big deal huh?

    Well it wouldn't let me post I had no option but viewing it. It was only corrected when I had to delete the cookies AGAIN.

    Now, that I am able to post again, I can't see my full WYSIWYG editor, just what yiou see in the pic below....

    I know Daz must be going nuts, and I feel badly for them..... But, I am too. It is so hard to do anything on the site.

    Of particular upset are:
    1) Required products on store pages are insane.
    2) No end date to sales is very difficult, unless I am the only one on a budget.... :-/
    3) I'm afraid to use the store. I buy gift certificates to ration my spening. I am due to grab another but I am afraid it will get screwed up.... :red:
    4) No useable order history
    5) No warning system to tell me I have purchased something.
    6) I won't go on here.

    One suggestion, I know no company wants to spend extra money, but it may be time to bring in some software guru's. I think every platform has some. They could come in and work with your in house stuff and get things rolling. God, I hope you do take advantage of this!

    It is sooooooooooo hard to shop, browse, or even use the forums here (now).


    BTW, anyone know when the SS Pro Bundle will go off sale???

    The sporadic logging out is getting annoying, we do know, and it has been reported.

    We have found that the the best way to deal with it when you appear to be unable to login to the forums again is to log out on the store, and then login again, once you have had the messagage that you are being logged out.

    THe rest of the itmes that you have given as unstisfactory have all been noted, as you will see if you visit this thread.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/123/

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 522
    edited December 1969

    It's also frustrating because I don't ever know if I am REALLY seeing all the current new products.


    Wiccan1 said:
    The forum is acting strangely... I was logged into the store, but when I came here I was logged out. Not a big deal huh?

    Well it wouldn't let me post I had no option but viewing it. It was only corrected when I had to delete the cookies AGAIN.

    Now, that I am able to post again, I can't see my full WYSIWYG editor, just what yiou see in the pic below....

    I know Daz must be going nuts, and I feel badly for them..... But, I am too. It is so hard to do anything on the site.

    Of particular upset are:
    1) Required products on store pages are insane.
    2) No end date to sales is very difficult, unless I am the only one on a budget.... :-/
    3) I'm afraid to use the store. I buy gift certificates to ration my spening. I am due to grab another but I am afraid it will get screwed up.... :red:
    4) No useable order history
    5) No warning system to tell me I have purchased something.
    6) I won't go on here.

    One suggestion, I know no company wants to spend extra money, but it may be time to bring in some software guru's. I think every platform has some. They could come in and work with your in house stuff and get things rolling. God, I hope you do take advantage of this!

    It is sooooooooooo hard to shop, browse, or even use the forums here (now).


    BTW, anyone know when the SS Pro Bundle will go off sale???

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 943
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, the same happens to me.
    Very annoying.
    Then again, I'm pretty annoying so I suppose it is some sort of poetic justice.

  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 522
    edited December 1969

    I now know I am not seeing all the current new products. I logged into the DAZ store on a second computer. I had yet to visit the new site on that computer. After logging in and clicking New Releases, it shows there are 107 products available, the two most current are Actual Face Hair and Genesis Bracer.

    I then closed the DAZ store on this computer, opened a new tab, went to the DAZ store again, logged out, logged back in, clicked New Releases. 105 products in New Releases. I logged out again and logged back in again. Still 105 products in New Releases. The two "most current" products are Supersuit Fantasy Pack (first item, fourth row on my second computer) and Extreme Heros: AXS (3rd item, fourth row on my second computer). Actual Face Hair and Genesis Bracer are not listed at all in New Products on this computer.


    At least the old broken store showed the same products in the same order on both computers.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,337
    edited December 1969

    Ah but think of the fun you are having It's a surprise every time.


    Oh dogs, where is the devilish laugh emoticon ?????

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,699
    edited May 2012

    I'n all my years on the internet, I have never seen a store/forum transition as disastrous as this. But since DAZ was in the process of alienating half their customer base anyway,

    I guess this finishes the job for them...


    ...as I mentioned in another thread, the inherent shortcomings of this new software appear to far outweigh any benefits it offers to improve the experience here.


    After clicking on "Preview" while writing this I was thrown to the login page (again with empty fields) after which I received another "Document Expired" error. Though I have been backing my posts up in Notepad (which has become S.O.P. with the new forum software) I still lost some of what I wrote. I was also logged out even though I was active in the forum (entering text at the time). Once again when I clicked the "Login" link at the top of the page I was redirected to my account page (which indicated I was already logged in) after which I had to Log Out, log back in and then manually navigate back to the thread.


    ...this is absolutely ludicrous having to keep going through all these hoops every so often.


    I have to say that what I've seen so far of the new software leaves me very underwhelmed. Some of the new policy changes are directly related to what the software is unable to handle rather than the business of running Daz3D. This to me says this software is an inferior product as it is causing Daz to adopt some measures that are unpopular with many of it's longtime customers and community members including those of us who pay to be members of the PC. Apparently the site software isn't very "friendly" with some of the widely used online services either such as Gmail and, as I have mentioned above with the Expired Document warnings (which I never saw until the new forums came online), Firefox


    Rendo, RDNA, EvilInnocence, and Dumpshock Forums are just a few sites I frequent that underwent major site updates and none had the long running issues like we are experiencing here.


    I agree with Wiccan1, it may be time to cut the losses and bring in a group of professionals to get the ship righted once and for all. IMO Daz should ditch the current vendor, demand a full refund, and then with the assistance of independent networking consultants, look into implementing software that would make the store and forums useable again. As I have seen in posts throughout these forums, Daz is in serious danger of losing a good part of its customer base because of the ongoing issues associated with the new site software (which is now into its second week).


    Until this transition can be made as smoothly and seamlessly as on other websites, they should also reopen the old store and forums.


    I have since modified my store profile to delete all CC info as I feel the store in it's current state could present a potential security risk. I am not going to make any purchases until I feel this site is stable.


    I don't want to see Daz fail, but if this continues on for another couple weeks or so, it's going to become increasingly difficult to hold out any hope.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,576
    edited December 1969

    They are working on the issues as fast as they can. They can't work miracles overnight. Most of those issues have been reported. The store is in absolutely no threat of being a security risk which has been stated several times. You have the right to remove you CC info if you please but that don't change the fact that there is no risk. DAZ can't just swap back to the old store and forum. Things aren't that easy. The store and forum are attached to each other and have to be running together. The best they can do is shut down the store and forum for an undetermined amount of time and have the entire public ticked off at them for doing so, as happened when they just did it. SO they are in a lose lose situation.

  • jhofflerjhoffler Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    ...DAZ can't just swap back to the old store and forum. Things aren't that easy. The store and forum are attached to each other and have to be running together. The best they can do is shut down the store and forum for an undetermined amount of time and have the entire public ticked off at them for doing so, as happened when they just did it. SO they are in a lose lose situation.

    Let me try to understand... DAZ did a complete site replacement with no back-out plan? Please tell me someone lost his/her job over that.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,699
    edited December 1969

    ...agreed, that alone would be case for sacking of the individual(s) responsible at my or any company which relied on customer/client net access for their business.


    The question that still remains for me is why is it that the other sites I mentioned above experienced minimal disruption to service and few if any "negative" changes to site operation while Daz is struggling so hard for so long?


    On the Members Only Forum there is a growing number of people saying they are going to let their PC memberships expire and not renew because of policy changes (one of which I understand is directly related to the new site software) and issues with the store.


    I'm not bringing this up to bash at Daz. I'm very concerned for the company which is why I bring these points up. Sometimes the toughest things to hear come from those who care the most.


    I once worked for a company that was at the forefront of multimedia development which had incredible potential and promise were it not for several questionable and ultimately critical decisions made by upper management that literally flew the firm into the ground. Quite likely it would have been our search engine most people would be using on the net today as we pioneered much of what Google, Yahoo, MS Bing and others later capitalised on.


    ...I'm beginning to see a similar pattern occur here.

  • LedheadLedhead Posts: 1,586
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    They are working on the issues as fast as they can. They can't work miracles overnight. Most of those issues have been reported. The store is in absolutely no threat of being a security risk which has been stated several times. You have the right to remove you CC info if you please but that don't change the fact that there is no risk. DAZ can't just swap back to the old store and forum. Things aren't that easy. The store and forum are attached to each other and have to be running together. The best they can do is shut down the store and forum for an undetermined amount of time and have the entire public ticked off at them for doing so, as happened when they just did it. SO they are in a lose lose situation.

    I understand that DAZ feels they must try to fix the issues at hand, but this has been going on for well over a week.


    I have been on this site everyday and it seems very little progress has been made. In fact some of the issues other people have been experiencing I had not experienced until the last couple of days, so to me it actually has regressed since going online.


    Why would it be so difficult to bring back the old store until the bugs can be worked out of this one. If it takes a day or two to go back to the old system that at least works, no matter how much duct tape is needed, then please do so until such time the new site has at least some semblance of stability.


    I have made known my frustrations in other posts so no need to go there anymore, I am just looking for some sort of solution to help us and most importantly to help DAZ, because if this keeps up, the customers and money lost may impact this store so badly that DAZ will never be able to recover from it.Then we all lose.


    Hopefully in a couple of more days the major issues are all worked out and this will all be in the past, but from what I have seen so far, it's going to take much longer than that.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,597
    edited December 1969

    I am hopeful that there will be more progress on fixes and improvements after the 3-day weekend is over.

    The reason they cannot put the old store back up is that it takes the full-time effort of their web staff just to keep it running -- that's why it took 3 months longer to switch to the new site than planned.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,699
    edited December 1969

    ...the thing is the new site software is a total bust. The store is unstable and the forums are a mess. if other sites like Rendo or RDNA can update their sites without a hitch why can't Daz?


    The answer is they got stuck with the wrong software as it actually hamstrings rather than improves the store and forums.


    There are many PC members (some of them long timers) who are bailing after their memberships expire. That should send a clear message to management that they are heading down the wrong track with this site update. Yes, the old one may have been a pain to maintain, but it was still better than what we are dealing with now.


    Many others have said they will not make any purchases until the site is stable. However, when will that happen, a week? Two weeks? A month from now? That translates to a lot of lost revenue which for a small company like Daz would be deadly.


    I cannot believe they are willing to risk the company over this.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited June 2012

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...the thing is the new site software is a total bust. The store is unstable and the forums are a mess. if other sites like Rendo or RDNA can update their sites without a hitch why can't Daz?


    The answer is they got stuck with the wrong software as it actually hamstrings rather than improves the store and forums.


    Many others have said they will not make any purchases until the site is stable. However, when will that happen, a week? Two weeks? A month from now? That translates to a lot of lost revenue which for a small company like Daz would be deadly.


    I cannot believe they are willing to risk the company over this.

    Yes, the forums are a mess. However, the store takes precedence. The old store was failing, and there were PC members screaming about leaving then, as well. Manpower isn't free. Supporting the old software was becoming a drain on resources. Better a short term pain, quickly forgotten, than a long term chronic ailment that bleeds resources until nothing is left.


    Could the transition have been better handled? Sure, in many ways. We have what we have and we either play with the hand we've got or not. It's the individuals' call.


    Kendall

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited June 2012

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...the thing is the new site software is a total bust. The store is unstable and the forums are a mess. if other sites like Rendo or RDNA can update their sites without a hitch why can't Daz?


    The answer is they got stuck with the wrong software as it actually hamstrings rather than improves the store and forums.


    There are many PC members (some of them long timers) who are bailing after their memberships expire. That should send a clear message to management that they are heading down the wrong track with this site update. Yes, the old one may have been a pain to maintain, but it was still better than what we are dealing with now.


    Many others have said they will not make any purchases until the site is stable. However, when will that happen, a week? Two weeks? A month from now? That translates to a lot of lost revenue which for a small company like Daz would be deadly.


    I cannot believe they are willing to risk the company over this.

    I'd hate to be the Daz Web guys having to fix this mess. Nightmare.


    I'd REALLY hate to be the guy who sold Daz this monster. I would ring them up and demand my money back if they don't send out tech support to fix this mess.


    This is a mess and think Daz got badly burned on this one.


    :coolhmm:

    Post edited by tsarist on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited June 2012


    Yes, the forums are a mess. However, the store takes precedence. The old store was failing, and there were PC members screaming about leaving then, as well. Manpower isn't free. Supporting the old software was becoming a drain on resources. Better a short term pain, quickly forgotten, than a long term chronic ailment that bleeds resources until nothing is left.


    Could the transition have been better handled? Sure, in many ways. We have what we have and we either play with the hand we've got or not. It's the individuals' call.


    Kendall

    I look at the "many" people who are bailing as a very serious problem. Why? These aren't some new people who just showed up. Many of these people aren't always in the forums. I look at the dates these people joined up. I'm seeing 2003, 2004, all the way up to 2007. Real veterans. THOSE are the people that when I see them say "bye bye", I say "uh-oh."


    No one has said the forums take precedence over the store. We all KNOW the store has to come first.
    It would be nice to be able to actually shop at the store.
    I didn't see ANY people screaming about the old store, much less threatening to leave.


    I think the only reason some people even admit there is even a problem is that this is such an obvious clusterfu*k.


    Yeah, the Titanic just had a little mishap.
    Those drowning people are just coming up with "non-issue" "excuses of the moment."

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:


    Yes, the forums are a mess. However, the store takes precedence. The old store was failing, and there were PC members screaming about leaving then, as well. Manpower isn't free. Supporting the old software was becoming a drain on resources. Better a short term pain, quickly forgotten, than a long term chronic ailment that bleeds resources until nothing is left.


    Could the transition have been better handled? Sure, in many ways. We have what we have and we either play with the hand we've got or not. It's the individuals' call.


    Kendall

    I look at the "many" people who are bailing as a very serious problem. Why? These aren't some new people who just showed up. Many of these people aren't always in the forums. I look at the dates these people joined up. I'm seeing 2003, 2004, all the way up to 2007. Real veterans. THOSE are the people that when I see them say "bye bye", I say "uh-oh."


    No one has said the forums take precedence over the store. We all KNOW the store has to come first.
    It would be nice to be able to actually shop at the store.
    I didn't see ANY people screaming about the old store, much less threatening to leave.


    I think the only reason some people even admit there is even a problem is that this is such an obvious clusterfu*k.


    Yeah, the Titanic just had a little mishap.
    Those drowning people are just coming up with "non-issue" "excuses of the moment."


    General business principles state that at any given time 10% of one's customers are looking for a reason to leave. It is these customers that new companies entering an industry look to siphon off for their initial customer base. The same principles also state that 5% of one's customers will account for 95% of one's support costs. (Generally called the 5/95 rule.) Of that 5% approximately half (2-2.5% of one's customers) will be extremely vocal about any perceived negative, whether it truly affects them or not. It is this "vocal detractor" group that marketing departments are tasked with negating.


    As with every company who offers a product/service, DAZ has these same issues. The fact is that in the forums, there is a very vocal contingent of people who constantly issue ultimatums. Their conditions vary as much as the direction of the wind, but in the PC the most used threat is "I'll cancel my membership!" Most never follow through on their threats.


    I'd rather help fix the issues than to gripe about them. To date, I've never seen a gripe that has ever fixed a problem. Every time, it's effort that gets the job done -- not complaining.


    Kendall

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,775
    edited December 1969

    Kendall, it seems you know a lot about business but nothing about customer service. Customers are more willing to cut you some slack if you inform them of any problems in advance of them experiencing them. You manage the customers expectations. People are coming here expecting to buy things with no problems. Some people are having problems. They expect to be able to log in to their accounts and not see another users name. They expect the forums to work in a certain way - they aren't. Then they start reading the forums and find out that these problems has been going on for a while and there is no official word from Daz. That annoys them. There would be a lot complaining and less work for the mods if Daz HQ put out an official email stating they are having problems with the website, they are working on it and provided regular updates, sticky at the top of the forums - what we are working on now and a banner across the store so new customers aren't turned off.

    As for PC customers - I don't think it's a case of PC customers threatening to leave, it's a case of their memberships coming up for renewal and not being given the option for the reduced membership. If they can't get the reduced rate they're not going to renew. Then they're the international customers who can't actually add a credit card. Once you lose customers due to bad experiences it is very hard to get them back.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited June 2012

    anikad said:
    Kendall, it seems you know a lot about business but nothing about customer service. Customers are more willing to cut you some slack if you inform them of any problems in advance of them experiencing them. You manage the customers expectations. People are coming here expecting to buy things with no problems. Some people are having problems. They expect to be able to log in to their accounts and not see another users name. They expect the forums to work in a certain way - they aren't. Then they start reading the forums and find out that these problems has been going on for a while and there is no official word from Daz. That annoys them. There would be a lot complaining and less work for the mods if Daz HQ put out an official email stating they are having problems with the website, they are working on it and provided regular updates, sticky at the top of the forums - what we are working on now and a banner across the store so new customers aren't turned off.

    As for PC customers - I don't think it's a case of PC customers threatening to leave, it's a case of their memberships coming up for renewal and not being given the option for the reduced membership. If they can't get the reduced rate they're not going to renew. Then they're the international customers who can't actually add a credit card. Once you lose customers due to bad experiences it is very hard to get them back.


    I absolutely agree that communications are necessary, and in my business I make sure communications are always there. However, I cannot control DAZ's communications, and for me to grouse about it publicly does no one any good. There is a difference between reporting a problem and complaining about a problem.


    Yes, people expect a certain experience. Right now they may, or may not, be getting the experience they expect. For those who are getting what they are expecting, it is likely that no one is hearing from them. Those who are not are more vocal. It's a fact of business. However, getting upset and using less than helpful language in public, helps no one.


    There are both situations happening. In either case, the correct solution is to take it to the "customer support" department. The forums are not going to get a resolution to the problem. One thing to remember is: The forums are not an accepted method for problem resolution. The forums are for informal discussions, not for getting support.


    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited June 2012

    General business principles state that at any given time 10% of one's customers are looking for a reason to leave. It is these customers that new companies entering an industry look to siphon off for their initial customer base. The same principles also state that 5% of one's customers will account for 95% of one's support costs. (Generally called the 5/95 rule.) Of that 5% approximately half (2-2.5% of one's customers) will be extremely vocal about any perceived negative, whether it truly affects them or not. It is this "vocal detractor" group that marketing departments are tasked with negating.


    As with every company who offers a product/service, DAZ has these same issues. The fact is that in the forums, there is a very vocal contingent of people who constantly issue ultimatums. Their conditions vary as much as the direction of the wind, but in the PC the most used threat is "I'll cancel my membership!" Most never follow through on their threats.
    Kendall

    The kind of customer I love is the one that forks over the cash and keeps his lips shut no matter how sideways things go. They also defend the company against the "unreasonable" customers.


    The "Vocal Detractor" group is the group any intelligent person will listen to FIRST if they want to stay in business. These "Detractors" are your hardcore fans. They buy your stuff and support you in the lean years. They are true blue.
    Further, the "Vocal Detractor" group is saying the same thing the bulk of the people are thinking or feeling.


    Just like Megadeth said in Holy Wars the Punishment Due, "Because I don't say it, don't mean I ain't thinking it"


    Most companies don't take the threat of cancelled memberships until it's too late. The cable companies are feeling the pain now. Remember Blockbuster? I know some insiders there and unhappy customers did them in, more than Netflix and the internet alone.


    Then again, "business principle theory" is always more comforting than actual facts.

    I'd rather help fix the issues than to gripe about them. To date, I've never seen a gripe that has ever fixed a problem. Every time, it's effort that gets the job done -- not complaining.


    Kendall

    Complaining gets things done because silence denotes satisfaction.


    I come round to your job and give you a pay rise, I might not hear much from you.
    I cut your pay and if I don't hear from you, I'll think everything is cool and maybe do a little more trimming, just because "you obviously didn't mind."


    I absolutely agree that communications are necessary, and in my business I make sure communications are always there. However, I cannot control DAZ's communications, and for me to grouse about it publicly does no one any good. There is a difference between reporting a problem and complaining about a problem.

    This is exactly what most businesses like to hear. Most companies like for us to keep quiet or report a problem to the email address or ":suggestion box" that nobody reads. Keep people isolated, quiet. Musn't gumble.
    When you know you're not alone. When you know other people feel as you feel, you can make real change or at the very least effectively lobby for what you want.


    There are both situations happening. In either case, the correct solution is to take it to the "customer support" department. The forums are not going to get a resolution to the problem. One thing to remember is: The forums are not an accepted method for problem resolution. The forums are for informal discussions, not for getting support.


    Kendall

    The forums are very much for support.
    Have a problem with the software? Goto the forums.
    Can't get your product to load? Goto the forums.
    Need to know how to do something with the software? Goto the forums.
    The forums ARE Daz's customer service department for everything but payments and the like.


    But, you know what?
    Everyone should just be quiet and say nothing.
    "Business Theory" says if you complain you're a "detractor" and the marketing dept is tasked to negate you.


    :coolhmm:

    Post edited by tsarist on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,337
    edited June 2012

    I think that in this instance what Kendall is saying is that the forums are not the place for support issues that obviously cannot be solved by forum members, no matter how knowledgable they may be.

    Normally this sort of problem is best dealt with through the support system.

    However, because a lot of people are experiencing the same problems we have asked for these to be posted in the official threads provided for this purpose, which are located at the top of the Commons, and sticky, so they don't get lost.

    These threads are being monitored and the information in them is updated when neccessary.

    Post edited by Chohole on
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