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What If We Made Bryce an Open Code Project—Wait hear me out
Posted: 30 August 2012 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Horo - 29 August 2012 06:31 AM

The WIP doc for Bryce 7 and the complete Bryce 6 can be found here: http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/pub/software/bryce/start. The Bryce 6 doc is worthwhile to have a look at. The Bryce 7 doc is incomplete but the Sky Lab is complete and up to date to for Bryce 7.1.0.109.

Bryce 6 manual isn’t available anymore. Glad I downloaded a copy before. It was a good manual. some of the content isn’t even in the Bryce 7 manual. There is a German version though still on- the web.

 

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Posted: 30 August 2012 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Eva1 - 30 August 2012 11:20 AM

Bryce 6 manual isn’t available anymore. Glad I downloaded a copy before. It was a good manual. some of the content isn’t even in the Bryce 7 manual. There is a German version though still on- the web.

Oh dear, than they managed to break that as well. Thanks for reporting. Have we not got the Bryce 6 doc with 7.1 Pro? I don’t remember. I have it in the Bryce\Doc folder, but it might be that I created that one.

@chohole - could you tell in the next admin meeting that there is no Bryce doc available anymore on this site? Perhaps DAZ 3D can make it work again. If not, I can always host it on my website with DAZ 3D’s consent as I already do the DTE appendix for the Bryce 7.1 Pro doc (http://www.horo.ch/raytracing/tuts/pdf/DTEdoc.zip - 21 MB, unzip to get the 84 page PDF).

 

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Posted: 30 August 2012 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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OK, will see if I can get Blaines attention.

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Posted: 30 August 2012 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Thank you. that would be exactly the right man.

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Posted: 30 August 2012 08:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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dan whiteside - 25 August 2012 06:19 PM

Is there any chance it’s just the registration process fouling things up but the rest of the program might work fine if a different registration process could be implemented?

I thought (and hoped) that at first but some people with laptop Macs got through the registration OK but Bryce crashed when using any of the controls.

If you Install/Register 7.1 on Snow Leopard machine or virtual machine (VMware/VMware Player) then copy the installed files to Mountain Lion , basically Bryce seems working.
Very unstable (for example, New Document causes crash) but at least can load scene file and render.

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Posted: 30 August 2012 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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ytetsu - 30 August 2012 08:32 PM

If you Install/Register 7.1 on Snow Leopard machine or virtual machine (VMware/VMware Player) then copy the installed files to Mountain Lion , basically Bryce seems working. Very unstable (for example, New Document causes crash) but at least can load scene file and render.

When I set up my MacBook Pro (2011 model), I copied over all my applications and files from my previous machine (which ran Snow Leopard). This meant that I had a fully installed Bryce 7, so I was able to skip the registration step.

As ytetsu says, a registered Bryce will launch on Lion or Mountain Lion, but it’s pretty much unusable. In my case, trying to do anything with the Materials Editor caused it to blow up, which is a showstopper for me. I gave up trying after that.

 

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Posted: 31 August 2012 02:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Against my better judgement I am going to add my opinion to this thread.

I will probably regret it but…

Horo gave a timeline for development. The two years spent developing Bryce 7.1 weren’t all productive. The first few months the steering committee did not yet know how to be a committee at all. Once we got that sorted, we got a lot done in a short time. However, the last 8 months of development were not productive in the least, we were just waiting for Daz to admit that development had ceased. And it was more than a year ago that the Steering committee was disbanded. And along the way LOTS of time was wasted with bug fixes that should have been handled before development ever began. Bug fixing eats away from new feature development time resulting in half baked new features upon release. So I will differ with Horo in that I dont feel Bryce 7 had a solid two years of development. In fact, to my mind it has been almost two years since any real development occurred with Bryce. I think we ARE do for another cycle right about now.

Horo was first to suggest this and I must concur that at least one guy ongoing with Bryce to fix bugs during these multiple year downtimes would be great. This way “development” cycles could be spent developing.

As far as the interface in my opinion pretty much sucks, sorry to say. I found it incredibly refreshing as a newbie, but I kind of hate it now. Bryce has not grown with its user base, period. I am sick of Bryce being the intro application that people dump later down the line because it cant keep up. Kai, though fantastic for his time, needs to come back and work some new magic if that can be done. A cool fun and innovative Interface without powerful tools leads to what we have now. I could care less about it being pretty, I really want the power from the features. Give me ease of use and powerful features ad I will be loyal to the application. But right now I feel too much emphasis is on making things “easy” and fun. Bryce is indeed easy and fun until you sit down one day to accomplish some real work, then you realize how backward many aspects of the interface and the tool set really are.

The CG industry doesnt really need Bryce. There is not one thing Bryce can do that other applications cannot do, that is in terms of hobby and professional uses. Bryce has not a single feature it can “brag” about. Other apllication offer more power, faster rendering, better support, and even a lower fprice in some situations. Bryce is not cutting edge and it NEVER will be if it continues to go years between development cycles. Why is Daz Studio Genesis the Software innovation of the year? Because it takes lots of research to find the new technologies and Bryce cannot find them without adequate time spent in development.

I cannot blame Daz, as much as I’d like to, they arent the ones who invented the problems Bryce has. Daz didnt decide on Axiom, nor did they decide on anything else that has sealed the coffin for Bryce. What I dont get is why we dont have plug-ins and the like for Bryce. But my minfd tells me that a fully mature Bryce would look a lot like Carrara. And no need for two Carrara’s in the Daz software arsenal. As long as Carrara is still a child of Daz, Bryce will be a step child at best.

If I had a few million dollars to spare I’d buy up Bryce, hire people to do it right, and in the process I’d drive away half the userbase. Half of them would never want changes because all they ever needed were the basics anyway. The advanced users would hate me at first too as it might take a little time to get reacquainted with the new interface and tools people have been using for the better part of 20 years.

Change everything, change nothing, you are still going to piss people off and there is no guarantee it will save the application from oblivion.

All applications, even shiny new Blender, will run into the day when its programming code is outdated. it is at this time that the true value of an application becomes viable. There are always new softwares being written with newer more updated code. Extinction is always just around the corner from a programming perspective.

So should Daz bother rewriting Bryce, or should they just try to merge DS and Bryce in the future? How hard would it be for DS to create atmospheres like Bryce? Not too hard I am guessing. DS just got instancing. So if you throw in some atmospheres, rock and a tree lab, DS would be on par with Bryce for landscaping. Do you see where I am going with this?

Further, Bryce is too much limited to its hobbyist niche. Bryce, even though it is entry level, needs to speak nicely with high end applications like Maya. A direct Bryce to Maya plug would be amazing. But again here at Daz3d, it is like the words Maya and Lightwave and Houdini are curses. no one refers to them and no one seems to be interested in making Daz softwares talk to these high end applications. So the hobbyist turning into a Pro will have to move on entirely from Daz software. What a shame. Professionals have a lot more cash to spend on CG than the average hobbyist. Professionals are also loyal. Hobbyists are not loyal, they just stick with what they think is easy which is usually what they already know.

End.
Lets just hope for the best and keep on working with what we have.

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Posted: 31 August 2012 04:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Most enjoyable post in this incarnation of the forum. Thx Rashad smile

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Posted: 20 September 2012 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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The Bryce 7.1 WIP Doc is again available as PDF http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/artzone/pub/software/bryce/bryce_7_ag_wip_0204.pdf

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Posted: 20 September 2012 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Horo - 20 September 2012 12:46 PM

The Bryce 7.1 WIP Doc is again available as PDF http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/artzone/pub/software/bryce/bryce_7_ag_wip_0204.pdf

thank you for link !

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Posted: 21 September 2012 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I know of a company that provided a survey for their customers to fill out, two years later a totally new release followed and it was a great success.

A great effort considering they had re-written from scratch!

What that survey did is basically weighed in all the strengths and weaknesses along with what users would like to see in future.

There is so much greatness in Bryce but it’s yet to be fully realized, too many options to consider that one person alone cannot make the final decision.

These are very competitive times and IMO DAZ3d may also benefit greatly by what I have suggested above.

FWIW IMO what I would like to see for example;

(1) Have the best features from each software; Carrara, Studio, Bryce, Hexagon and

(2) Fewer versions but the same at the very core = Basically the same UI, Consistency/Integration across all versions. 

(3) Being the same at the core = devs will have more focus, efficiency for improvements across all versions.

(4) Suggested 3 versions only,  as follows…... 


DAZ 3D Free
New improved UI along the lines of for example; Autodesk. but keeping familiar default layout of Bryce with option to show/hide (auto or manual) or dock for example; camera controls, menu, create, materials, objects, edit items and such.

Ability to float Quick Render Preview (to another monitor) with adjustable size.

Ability to float other windows/panels such as; material library/browser.

Limited version but provides the means to create scenes (Bryce) and characters (Lo-Res Genesis/DAZ) with maximum scene size; 1920x1080p.


Bryce Professional Edition (Ideal for Professional Artists)
Greatly improved material lab….

Consistency of lighting and materials across all versions.

New Guides; Precise Grid (customizable, much like Photoshop)!

New Template Guide; enable any image or sketch import to become a trace-template guide for scene creation.

New Ruler View option X, Y, Z (Show/Hide)

Shift-Hold =1 pixel-adjustments (global user settings from 1 pixel) this allows freehand precise adjustments/placement of objects within a scene.

New Direct-Move material tool for on the fly adjustments in Bryce.

New Font Tool, perfect for billboards, signs. With options to add custom fonts/symbols.

Attributes in user choice of; Pixels, inches, cm.

Current Selection displayed in task bar, side-bar or across the top. Additional info of all content displayed in larger show/hide pane (much like DAZ Studio Scene - List)!

Keep Copy/Paste keyboard shortcuts for materials (as it is in Bryce)!

Add new Bryce Genesis Figure in three choices; lo-res, medium and highest quality with seams located in logic/practical sections; bodysuit and thereby being versatile along with…. 

New primitives for skirt/dress, shirt and pants (easy clothing creation).

Greater resolution along with faster render times.

Export images at greater resolution. In accordance with professional standards for HD Broadcast and Print.

New Optimization Materials Manager + Browser.

New Layers, Eco-Populate and Instancing Lab. 


Daz 3D Studio Pro (Ideal for Professional Artist, Animators and Gamers)
Same as Bryce Pro + advanced modeling (Hexagon) but made easier (more user-friendly) and additional content; V4, V5, M4, M5 (DAZ3d Studio). Including advanced morphing. animation; ability to animate anything and everything! Ability to not only integrate/bridge with Photoshop but also; Autodesk products.

 

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Posted: 24 September 2012 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Rashad Carter - 31 August 2012 02:35 AM

Against my better judgement I am going to add my opinion to this thread.

I will probably regret it but…

Horo gave a timeline for development. The two years spent developing Bryce 7.1 weren’t all productive. The first few months the steering committee did not yet know how to be a committee at all. Once we got that sorted, we got a lot done in a short time. However, the last 8 months of development were not productive in the least, we were just waiting for Daz to admit that development had ceased. And it was more than a year ago that the Steering committee was disbanded. And along the way LOTS of time was wasted with bug fixes that should have been handled before development ever began. Bug fixing eats away from new feature development time resulting in half baked new features upon release. So I will differ with Horo in that I dont feel Bryce 7 had a solid two years of development. In fact, to my mind it has been almost two years since any real development occurred with Bryce….............. Professionals have a lot more cash to spend on CG than the average hobbyist. Professionals are also loyal. Hobbyists are not loyal, they just stick with what they think is easy which is usually what they already know.

End.
Lets just hope for the best and keep on working with what we have.


I mostly agree with you, however, if Bryce only got 62 bit support, a modern render engine (ambient occlusion and usable GI), bug-free instancing, and customizable keyboard commands I’d be perfectly happy for 10 more years.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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max v nimos - 24 September 2012 02:22 PM

I mostly agree with you, however, if Bryce only got 62 bit support, a modern render engine (ambient occlusion and usable GI), bug-free instancing, and customizable keyboard commands I’d be perfectly happy for 10 more years.

Well, you meant 64, I take it. Who want’s AO and GI? We have TA!. Yeah, Instancing and Displacement are quite reliable to crash Bryce, though one can make them work.

 

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Posted: 25 September 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Horo - 25 September 2012 05:14 AM

Well, you meant 64, I take it. Who want’s AO and GI? We have TA!. Yeah, Instancing and Displacement are quite reliable to crash Bryce, though one can make them work.

Yes, 64 bit - hehe, sorry for the slip. Now regarding TA, it’s a fine tool with great potential, but in practical use I find it mostly impractical.  To get smooth renders one has to crank up the quality so high that the render time becomes unacceptable.  The same issue with IBL - impossibly long render times for smooth renders.  Without smooth, clean textures and shadows, my renders will never look professional unless I do massive labor intensive post-work.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Noise is a problem for TA, there are not enough rpp but that would make the render even longer. But there are methods to get nice renders already with 64 rpp. IBL has also an issue with shadow banding, you’ve got to go quite high with quality. Low quality with soft IBL shadows gives good results - at a tremendous cost of render time. However, also here there are strategies to cut render time down.

Bryce is not perfect, but it has tools that can be combined in ways most have not yet thought about and hence not experimented with. I’m constantly amazed at Bryce - and sometimes annoyed, too.

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