[DS4.5, Genesis] I think I broke something in joints system

SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
edited December 1969 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Okay, so here's the thing:

1) I created a character, a pudgy elderly gnome. This involved lots of various different Genesis-based morphs, including DieTrying's free morphs, but most were DAZ's own.
2) I posed the character, did some tests etc. and did regular saving. Couple of times I had to close DAZ Studio due to Windows being up its usual hijinks, such as begging for a reboot or so. Character loaded fine.
3) Today, I noticed the Beautiful Hands package in store, grab it, install it (while DS is closed, note) and then load up my character. Instead of having a charming yawn where I left the character, his right arm is sucked into his body. Okay, maybe something happened? I uninstalled the product, loaded again, same thing happens. I reset the pose, save, try again, and still it keeps happening.
4) I loaded up a plain Genesis, and test what happens when I put the arm a-swinging. Nothing as extreme happens, but something is clearly messed up.

So, um. Does anyone have any recommendations how I should proceed? I'm guessing it might be the freebie morph set that is doing this. But I need those DieTrying's morphs for elderly face and body, but am I able to bake a full-body shape morph out of the knob-twisting I'm done, and just toss the dialed features away and then erase those morphs that are likely messing up things? Or would I still suffer the same fate?

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited August 2012

    I followed you here from the stupid thread. That's more broke than I've ever pulled off.

    TIP, check if any of the third party morphs load with a value set above zero. Some of them are shipping with values set which are then auto loaded into the base genesis.

    EDIT: Looks like a bad shaping morph to me. It must be auto loading.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    I checked, they didn't, they claim to start with 0 (but we know that numbers can be filthy liars). Even so, I'm pretty sure I can point my finger that way and scream J'Accuse.

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited August 2012

    Okay, I removed the morphs, and I'm still getting bizarro results in base Genesis. o_O I have the original character saved as a Hexagon project, so I can transfer it to DAZ Studio as a full morph, but I'm apparently doing something WRONG because I'm still getting bizarro (even more so than above) results with the morph applied... funny thing is that the facial morphs work just fine, but rotating arms etc is just *broken*.

    So, here's what I did:

    1) Pick right collar, "bend" up to 12.
    2) Pick right shoulder, "bend" up to max (75) and "front-back" to max (75).

    Is anyone else getting "taffy Genesis" out of it? Or is it just me?

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    Post edited by Skiriki on
  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 935
    edited August 2012

    Check your bones by clicking on genesis then on the joint editor

    If your morph involves some scaling up or down, bones also must follow this scaling. If not, then try dial the morph at 100% and all other morph at 0, then Edit->figure->rigging->adjust rigging to shape (don't adjust bone orientation). If the rigging is oK then, you can do an ERC freeze and resave the morph

    Just be carefull not to have overwritten some bad rigging on genesis. Test it without any morph and eventually reinstall DS default content if there is something wrong

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    Oh, good point! I'm going to check the base Genesis first, just to see that it hasn't been struck by rigging fault.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 935
    edited August 2012

    Just did what you did on shoulder and collar. I have the same result so it don't seem to me your base Genesis has any problem. Genesis just isn't perfect

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    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    Phew, thanks. And bone-scaling seems to help here -- I have to scoot, but once I've done the grocery run, I will go on with testing; I will need some help with the morph-importing (if anyone can toss a good link for "exporting character morphs from Hexagon" while I'm gone, it would be appreciated -- I'm unsure about if I need to make it DeltaAdd or DeltaMultiply or whatnot and then how to save it), I would really appreciate it a lot.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 935
    edited August 2012

    I don't work a lot with hexagon but there is a brigde between DAZ Studio and Hex that worked for me so it should work for you too

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    I don't work a lot with hexagon but there is a brigde between DAZ Studio and Hex that worked for me so it should work for you too

    Yeah, that's not the problem...

    This is the problem. I have no idea what I'm supposed to pick here and if I need to pick more options somewhere and how to save the final morph with rescaled bones.

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  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    Okay -- it really seems that the size was the one that futzed the character, so I reinstalled the morphs and went back to original set-up. (Even so, it would be handy to know how to do those permanent character morph thingees in future, so I have to research.)

    I resized my character's joint set up, as told above and tested that the arm more or less rotates the way it is supposed to do (it still has a tendency to vanish into pudgier bits of stomach, but that's stomach's fault at that point).

    I just need to know -- is this how it is supposed to look like after adjusted rigging? With kinda ummm double-boning? Swimming trunks are there for everyone's benefit, as there are things the world isn't ready to see and what's seen cannot be unseen...

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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 21,561
    edited December 1969

    No, that looks very wrong.

    As for the ERC stuff, you need that only if you are wanting to make a JCM or the like, where setting something else automatically triggers the morph.

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    No, that looks very wrong.

    Okay, so, um, how do I proceed to fix it?

    1) selected the gnome
    2) went to joint set-up tab
    3) right-clicked on my gnome
    4) picked edit -> adjust rigging to shape
    5) pressed OK

    And that's when those double-bones came around. Am I doing it wrong?

    As for the ERC stuff, you need that only if you are wanting to make a JCM or the like, where setting something else automatically triggers the morph.

    Ah okay! :)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 2,284
    edited December 1969

    4) picked edit -> adjust rigging to shape

    in many case you can adjust rigging to shape almost.

    but if you change so much shape,(eg child shape)

    it can not adjust good.

    so now your figure joint position (blue color) is far from you want.

    and, you do not have double bone.

    the red one is original (it means before you change the bone rigging)
    and it is not fixed now. (it means you did not save the change rigging)

    so if you memorize> memorize figure rigging , the your rigging is fixed.

    but in this case you should not fix it.

    you need to arrange your bone correctly. then memorize it.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 2,284
    edited December 1969

    if you do not mind I want to ask you.

    do you want to make the morph for genesis?
    or if you make morph for another your handmade figure ?

    one of your bones set seems original genesis rigging.
    if you want make morph for genesis,
    and the shape is far from original genesis, (in this case)

    you need erc freeze. to rig move with your morph correctly.
    and in this case you need not memorize> memorize figure rigging
    at all.

    because it change the original rig positon.
    (ofcourse if you do not save the figure, the rigging can not saved)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 2,284
    edited December 1969

    eg if you want to make morph like eirlian child,

    1. I set morph child and change genesis shape.
    send hexagon by hexagon bridge.

    2 you change the shape or scale as you like

    3 in ds if you hope to change shape from genesis original shape, one controller
    top menu>figure>zero figure. ( or as you like, you just need to reset and keep genesis original shape)

    4 from hexagon use hexagon bridge then export the shape to genesis.

    5 the window open for name the morph, you just set name. (need not tweak option now)

    6 now you have morph controller under parameter tab>morph loader.

    7 set value 100 or 1

    8 open joint editor tab,
    then as you say, try to edit adjust riggin to shape.
    in my case it goes good. check my img

    9 if you feel good, you need erc freeze to save the rigging move with your morph.
    it take more time how to set it with safety... if someone need, i would up.

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  • edited December 1969

    Hi Skiriki...

    That image with the double-boning is indeed strange and I have no idea what's up with that...

    Below I've listed the steps that I would use for creating a Shape based from an exported obj from DS. I don't use Hex so I'm not familiar with the use of the Bridge so this is based on a straight obj export from DS 4.5

    With Genesis morphed to your liking...

    1- Set Resolution to Base and Subdivision to 0

    2- Export .obj, File>Export, select type .obj, Name FBM(whatever), use Daz scale, use existing groups

    3- Zero all Genesis morphs and scale or clear scene and load a new Genesis figure

    4- Select Genesis and open Morph Loader Pro

    5- Select Daz scale and then Choose Morph Files, navigate to the .obj and select

    6- Expand the loaded morph file and Right-Click on Morphs/Morph Loader on the Property Group line and select the appropriate group from the list.

    7- Right-Click on Make Unique on the Overwrite Existing line and select Deltas Only

    8- Click Accept and the morph should now be created and added to Genesis

    9- Find your morph in the Shaping or Parameters pane and set to 100 percent

    10- With Genesis selected, open the Property Editor and select the Joint Editor Tool to view the bones.

    11- In the Viewport Right-Click and select Edit>Adjust Rigging to Shape. Everything should be selected by default, click Accept and the bones should adjust to the mesh

    12- Right-Click on the Property Editor Tab header or click on the menu and select Refresh Pane. Your morph should appear in the Hierarchy pane under Genesis (probably first), Right-Click on your morph and select ERC Freeze. Everything should be filled in by default (Figure and Node - Genesis, Property - your morph, Freeze Properties - all the bone positions), un-check Restore Figure Rigging and click Accept.

    13- In the Shaping or Parameters pane click the gear cog for your morph and select Parameter Settings, set the Min value to 0, the Label to whatever you want to call your morph and un-check As Percent if you prefer 0 or 1 values, click Accept

    14- Test your morph slider and watch that the bones follow the shape

    15- Zero out your morph slider to return to the default Genesis !!This is very IMPORTANT!!

    16- Select File>Save As>Support Asset>Morph Asset(s)

    17- Set the Base Directory to where the data folder is located ie:My Library, enter your Vender Name (folder name) and Product Name

    18- Expand the Genesis tree all the way to your morph and check your morph, un-check Compress Files if you want your files written in plain text, click Accept

    19- Clear your scene and load a new Genesis, find your morph in the Shaping or Parameters pane and try it out

    :coolsmirk: standard disclaimer - for personnel use only if obj is made from non-merchant resource morphs.

    That said... these steps always work for me in creating new Shape morphs, but I did go ahead and test them out for what I believe you are wanting to do (exporting out a morphed figure to create a single shape morph)

    Hope this helps you out... :)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 2,284
    edited August 2012

    I am sorry to answer well, then it seems perfect tutorial.

    then I want to said about exprot and import size .

    if you use hexagon bridge , then stop your work sometime,
    you need exprot obj. then you need to save it as size. 10 times scale.

    so you load it as default size in ds 4.5

    (actually hexagon bridge just load obj as tenth part scale.)

    everytime the ration is (10 : 1) = ds size : hexagon size.
    you export obj normarl size in ds, you need to load it as "tenth part" scale in hexagon.
    if you exprot obj from hexagon, you need to load is as "ten times" scale in ds.

    and just apply to erc feeze setting jpg.

    so are you happy?

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    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,840
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, everyone! I managed to muddle it out yesterday, by turning the whole thing into a character morph and somehow managed to muddle the rigging back to what it should be. (And had that "forgot to zero the morph" thing, but then I went "did I forget?" and loaded second instance of DS, loaded Genesis and went "Yep, forgot" and one manual edit later all was good again.) And yes, sadly I can't share the awesome pudgy gnome goodness with all of ya, so in a personal morph library it will stay. ;)

    Thanks again, for taking time, you all are the most awesometastic people I know. I will make a note of this thread so when I inevitably mess up stuff, I can come here to refresh my memory for how to fix it. :lol: :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,924
    edited December 1969

    Thanks so much for the tutorial on how to fix my messy hands issue after transferring morphs from Gene-01 to Gene-02

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