Shader help please?

BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 494
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

So for awhile now I've been doing a sort of bandaid fix it way to exchange complete textures/shaders on clothes and skin. Basically I would take a complete mat for a character or a shirt or whatever, I would replace the mats in the actual file folder with the mats I wanted to use, and that's that. When I choose the mat from my content library, instead of the mat that's listed appearing, my new mat is uploaded.

But now I'm getting to the point where I really need to know how to do this the correct way.

I know how to change a color/texture for an arm or a chest or a foot or whatever, but if I wanted to apply an entire mat to a character or piece of wardrobe, how would I go about doing that from, say, the shader interface?

Additionally, I'd love to know how to make the mats I create actually appear with little 91x91 icons in my actual library like all of my purchased textures do.

Any help with any of this is very much appreciated! :)

Comments

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,035
    edited December 1969

    Hi BC Rice :)

    I thing what you want is,. How to save a "Global" shader,.. which includes multiple shader setting in one item.

    You can Drag the Multicoloured ball at the Top of the shader list, and drop it into your My Shaders section of the browser,.
    this will create the Thumbnail icon, and allow you to name the new shader.

    The shader can be applied in the same way, by reversing the process and dragging a "Global shader" from the browser, and dropping it onto the Multi-coloured ball at the top of the shader list.

    Pic to help.

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  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    Great graphic 3dage! How'd you do that??

    Thanks for the shader tip. ;)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Just to add - be sure to drag it onto the ball exactly as 3dage showed - don't know how many times Carrara has frozen on me when I've got careless and dragged a high definition shader across the corner of the workspace.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,035
    edited December 1969

    Hi MegaCal :)

    Thanks :)

    I use a vector graphics program called Xara Designer pro X ( www.xara.com )
    it's really fast, and really easy to use.

    The arrow was created with a few clicks, and then shaped by dragging the straight edges to bend them to where I wanted them.
    The Fills, Transparency, and Drop shadow, are all very simply done by dragging with the appropriate tool.

    Designer pro, also has a bunch of "photo" tools, and can use Photoshop Plugins as "live effects" on vector shapes or images, although it's primarily a Vector graphics program it allows you to work with images in ways that even photoshop doesn't, and while I'm not suggesting it's a replacement for PS, it has the ability to Open and Save layered PSD and PDF as well as all the standard image and vector formats, Xara Designer Pro is a great program to have in your tool box.

    quick example of image manipulation in xara.

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  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    Hi 3dage! :lol: I like it....very cool! :)

    I used to use Xara 3D when I was doing web pages.....all the Xara apps are
    pretty neat......intuitive, user-friendly with great effects.

    I haven't used Xara Designer, but it looks very impressive. ;)

  • cal_7ed8fd714dcal_7ed8fd714d Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    3dage,

    thanks for the facelift mate! :)

  • KnightStalker000KnightStalker000 Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    Quick question here, I'm still learning the in's and out's of Carrara

    How do I get Carrara 8.5 Pro to recognize older shaders that are in .ds format? I just downloaded three shader packs off ShareCG (metallic, basic human skin, and an ultimate shader pack), but none of them show in the shaders in Carrara.

    I need a glass shader that I can tint to a nearly-black color, yet still retain a hint of it's transparency, while still being reflective, and I can't use these new shaders if Carrara won't recognize them.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Quick question here, I'm still learning the in's and out's of Carrara

    How do I get Carrara 8.5 Pro to recognize older shaders that are in .ds format? I just downloaded three shader packs off ShareCG (metallic, basic human skin, and an ultimate shader pack), but none of them show in the shaders in Carrara.

    I need a glass shader that I can tint to a nearly-black color, yet still retain a hint of it's transparency, while still being reflective, and I can't use these new shaders if Carrara won't recognize them.


    This would literally take less than 10 seconds to create in Carrara's shader tree:

    color = 0
    highlight = 70 (or a specific color if you want the glass to have a tinted sheen)
    shininess = 0
    reflection = 30
    transparency = 20

    I'd start with these numbers and adjust as needed. For metallic the settings are similar but no transparency and you might use a color in the color channel. There are also MANY metal and glass shaders that come with Carrara's Native Content. If you have installed it, you will find them under logically named folders in the SHADERS tab in the Browser.

    I have a skin shader tutorial on my website if you'd care to take a look which explains the highlight/shininess controls on skin.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,035
    edited December 1969

    HI KnightStalker000 :)

    The .ds format is a Daz Studio format, so, Carrara 8 and previous versions, won't read those. They'll only work as intended in Daz Studio.

    In the Carrara 8.5 (beta) version, you can import Material Presets from Daz Studio 4.5, saved in the new .duf (Daz User File) format.
    So, it may be possible to transfer those shaders across,.. However, you may still need t adjust some of their settings in Carrara.

    most 3D programs have slightly different shader engine's and renderers, so, shaders being imported from one program may need some adjustments in another program, normally it's things like the Bump level, the shininess and highlight, and perhaps transparency or alpha channel.

    The main shader elements, for example: the images used in Texture based shaders,. or the values used in simple colour based shaders, will transfer easily, but some complex shader settings may not transfer well, since Daz Studio uses the Renderman shader library

    Carrara has a powerful set of shader functions and with a little bit of thought or on-line research, you can reproduce most materials.

    You can find lot's of Carrara shaders (.cbr) for free on sites like shareCG , there are some great simple example shaders in the "Carrara Native Content" which you can use as a starting point, to see how it's done, or to adjust and save, to create you're own variations.

    Try adjusting one of the sample coloured glass shaders to try to make your Dark Glass.


    Hope it helps :)

  • 3DPixLA3DPixLA Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    HI, I have a related Poser question...

    What I DO understand, Poser "Materials" don't xfer over to Carrara.

    To get these into Carrara you need to save the Poser file with materials applied then open it in Carrara where they can be saved, etc.

    In the Poser Runtime folder, there is a "Textures" folder where I see some textures (JPG and PNG files labeled by shader domain) for a Smith Micro Poser figure that I want to use in Carrara. In Poser these show up in Materials as an icon to apply to the figure but since they are Mat files, don't show up in Carrara. I know this but looking for workaround solutions...

    Is there a way to go into this Poser Textures folder within Carrara and apply them directly to the figure as a shader domain group or is the best solution using the file export/import method? Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DPixLA said:
    HI, I have a related Poser question...

    What I DO understand, Poser "Materials" don't xfer over to Carrara.

    To get these into Carrara you need to save the Poser file with materials applied then open it in Carrara where they can be saved, etc.

    In the Poser Runtime folder, there is a "Textures" folder where I see some textures (JPG and PNG files labeled by shader domain) for a Smith Micro Poser figure that I want to use in Carrara. In Poser these show up in Materials as an icon to apply to the figure but since they are Mat files, don't show up in Carrara. I know this but looking for workaround solutions...

    Is there a way to go into this Poser Textures folder within Carrara and apply them directly to the figure as a shader domain group or is the best solution using the file export/import method? Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

    If you can save the MAT file as a PZ2, Carrara will be able to use it from the content browser.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited August 2012

    Try adding the Poser runtime to your Content Browser and see if they show up.


    Edited to add: As Holly mentioned, the Poser .mat files should be available. It's the D/S native content that doesn't translate with versions earlier prior to the current version of Carrara's 8.5 beta. However, if the shader is based on image maps, you can open the maps and build the shaders within Carrara. You might need to have D/S or a reference image open to compare various settings such as specular settings, bump etc. But it is possible.

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    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 494
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    Hi BC Rice :)

    I thing what you want is,. How to save a "Global" shader,.. which includes multiple shader setting in one item.

    You can Drag the Multicoloured ball at the Top of the shader list, and drop it into your My Shaders section of the browser,.
    this will create the Thumbnail icon, and allow you to name the new shader.

    The shader can be applied in the same way, by reversing the process and dragging a "Global shader" from the browser, and dropping it onto the Multi-coloured ball at the top of the shader list.

    Pic to help.

    So I'm still not certain that this answers my question. This seems more like the second part to the answer. :)

    If I duplicate the M4 MAT and then duplicate it, and then I make changes to that duplicate MAT, how can I make it so when I choose M4 I can upload that new changed MAT to my character? Doing it shader by shader won't work, and it looks like to create a new shader like the example you have to go shader by shader.

    Like I said, right now, for my V4 characters I just take a MAT that I've purchased and change it. So when Carrara accesses the MAT for that specific morph, I've already switched it out in the file with the new one I've change. But with M4 I don't have (and don't want to have to purchase) a bunch of different morphs just in order to load complete MATs, ya know?

    So how do I do what you've done here (create a new shader) without changing things shader by shader? The only thing I can think is to create a folder called, like, CHARACTER ONE. I can then have that folder in textures and have the original M4 MAT missing. So that way when it prompts to look for the MAT I can direct it to the new folder, where all the names will be in line with tr original M4 character. After info that I can set and save the shader, I think?

    Is that the only way to do it or is there a better (easier) way?

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,035
    edited December 1969

    Hi BC Rice :)

    The way that you apply the Carrara shader is a SINGLE drag and drop from your "my shaders" in the browser, onto the multicoloured ball (global shader) at the top of the shader list. this applies all the individual shaders for that figure.

    If you think of a complex multi-shader like an M4 or V4 shader list,... all the individual shaders for the face, eyes, arms, etc. are all being held in a single container.. which is the "Global shader". so by dragging and dropping a single Carrara "Global shader" onto the shader list for your figure,. you apply the complete multiple shader list to all of the shading domains in that figure.

    If I duplicate the M4 MAT and then duplicate it, and then I make changes to that duplicate MAT, how can I make it so when I choose M4 I can upload that new changed MAT to my character?

    If you load up M4, then adjust any of the shader settings, textures, values or colours, then you've created a "New shader" there;'s no need to make a duplicate shader, and then adjust the settings in the duplicate

    Once you've adjusted a set of shaders to your liking, you would save that new "Global shader"
    You can then apply it to another figure by dragging it from your browser, onto the shader list for that figure.

    Morphs and Shaders are completely different things.
    Morphs change the geometry shape,
    Shaders change the surface appearance.


    Doing it shader by shader won’t work, and it looks like to create a new shader like the example you have to go shader by shader

    If you want to change the settings in a multi-shader, then by definition you would need to edit / adjust the individual shaders in the multi-shader, then save the results as a new global shader, then you can apply that to whatever you want

    If you want completely different "Texture maps" in your shader, then you need to change the maps used in all of the individual shaders, then save it as a global shader.
    It's a little bit of work, but if you want to make something that's unique, then it's worth the time.

    So how do I do what you’ve done here (create a new shader) without changing things shader by shader?


    Adjusting each of the individual shaders, in a multi-shader, is the only way to change how that shader appears when it's applied to a figure,.
    If you don't adjust any of the individual shader settings, and save it, then all you've done is made an "exact duplicate" of the original shader.


    The only thing I can think is to create a folder called, like, CHARACTER ONE. I can then have that folder in textures and have the original M4 MAT missing. So that way when it prompts to look for the MAT I can direct it to the new folder, where all the names will be in line with the original M4 character.

    If I've read this correctly,...
    You're looking for a way to either create a new "Poser MAT" or replace the default Poser MAT, so that when you load M4 into a scene, it loads the figure with your new MAT.

    This can only be done within Poser. ( and it's really not a good idea )
    Carrara doesn't create Poser "MAT" pose files.

    Carrara Creates .CBR Shaders (which are essentially the same thing) you can apply a different shader to a figure simply by drag and drop from your My Shaders in the browser. ( Carrara comes with a set of High resolution shaders built for M4 and V4).

    or by double clicking on a Poser material pose, in your Content browser.

    so whether you load the M4 with it's default Materials / shaders, and replace those with you're own custom material / shaders made and saved in Carrara,.. or replace them with a set of Materials / shaders you've purchased from the store, is academic .
    the method of application is the same,. and the method of creation is the same.

    In Carrara, you'd adjust the individuals settings of each shaders in the Multi-shader, and save the results as a single global shader.
    In Poser, you'd adjust the individual shaders settings and save all of these as a single Poser "Mat" file.

    The only difference would be that a "NEW" set of shaders purchased from the store would contain a "NEW" set of texture maps, ans possibly morphs to adjust the face and body of your figure.


    Hope that makes sense.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 494
    edited September 2012

    3DAGE said:
    Hi BC Rice :)

    The way that you apply the Carrara shader is a SINGLE drag and drop from your "my shaders" in the browser, onto the multicoloured ball (global shader) at the top of the shader list. this applies all the individual shaders for that figure.

    If you think of a complex multi-shader like an M4 or V4 shader list,... all the individual shaders for the face, eyes, arms, etc. are all being held in a single container.. which is the "Global shader". so by dragging and dropping a single Carrara "Global shader" onto the shader list for your figure,. you apply the complete multiple shader list to all of the shading domains in that figure.

    If I duplicate the M4 MAT and then duplicate it, and then I make changes to that duplicate MAT, how can I make it so when I choose M4 I can upload that new changed MAT to my character?

    If you load up M4, then adjust any of the shader settings, textures, values or colours, then you've created a "New shader" there;'s no need to make a duplicate shader, and then adjust the settings in the duplicate

    Once you've adjusted a set of shaders to your liking, you would save that new "Global shader"
    You can then apply it to another figure by dragging it from your browser, onto the shader list for that figure.

    Morphs and Shaders are completely different things.
    Morphs change the geometry shape,
    Shaders change the surface appearance.


    Doing it shader by shader won’t work, and it looks like to create a new shader like the example you have to go shader by shader

    If you want to change the settings in a multi-shader, then by definition you would need to edit / adjust the individual shaders in the multi-shader, then save the results as a new global shader, then you can apply that to whatever you want

    If you want completely different "Texture maps" in your shader, then you need to change the maps used in all of the individual shaders, then save it as a global shader.
    It's a little bit of work, but if you want to make something that's unique, then it's worth the time.

    So how do I do what you’ve done here (create a new shader) without changing things shader by shader?


    Adjusting each of the individual shaders, in a multi-shader, is the only way to change how that shader appears when it's applied to a figure,.
    If you don't adjust any of the individual shader settings, and save it, then all you've done is made an "exact duplicate" of the original shader.


    The only thing I can think is to create a folder called, like, CHARACTER ONE. I can then have that folder in textures and have the original M4 MAT missing. So that way when it prompts to look for the MAT I can direct it to the new folder, where all the names will be in line with the original M4 character.

    If I've read this correctly,...
    You're looking for a way to either create a new "Poser MAT" or replace the default Poser MAT, so that when you load M4 into a scene, it loads the figure with your new MAT.

    This can only be done within Poser. ( and it's really not a good idea )
    Carrara doesn't create Poser "MAT" pose files.

    Carrara Creates .CBR Shaders (which are essentially the same thing) you can apply a different shader to a figure simply by drag and drop from your My Shaders in the browser. ( Carrara comes with a set of High resolution shaders built for M4 and V4).

    or by double clicking on a Poser material pose, in your Content browser.

    so whether you load the M4 with it's default Materials / shaders, and replace those with you're own custom material / shaders made and saved in Carrara,.. or replace them with a set of Materials / shaders you've purchased from the store, is academic .
    the method of application is the same,. and the method of creation is the same.

    In Carrara, you'd adjust the individuals settings of each shaders in the Multi-shader, and save the results as a single global shader.
    In Poser, you'd adjust the individual shaders settings and save all of these as a single Poser "Mat" file.

    The only difference would be that a "NEW" set of shaders purchased from the store would contain a "NEW" set of texture maps, ans possibly morphs to adjust the face and body of your figure.


    Hope that makes sense.

    No, it does, but I'm just not seeing how it's possible to use, in Carrara via the Shaders tabs, say, M4's Neck, Head, Torso MAT item. Like, each one of those things has a separate shader. So if I take the Neck, Head, Torso MAT and duplicate it and then change it, there's no way for me to upload that MAT to the Shader tabs profile. I can choose Neck or Head or Torso, but if I upload the combined Neck, Head, Torso MAT to that single shader, it's a mess.

    I *think* the way is going to have to be like I described, though I'll have to test it when I have time. I think it's going to be about taking the existing M4 MAT, duplicating it, changing it, replacing the changed MAT with the new MAT from a separate folder designed for that specific character, and then once the new global shader makes that connection, I can save it and it can re-link to that folder if necessary, but more likely it will just save the shaders as shaders and won't even rely on the MAT after that point.

    My M4 MAT has to be manually referenced every time I load him anyway because I have it in a separate folder than was suggested at install. But once you reference a single MAT within whatever duplicate M4 folder you choose, Carrara automatically populates the remaining shaders so long as you don't change the name of the shaders.

    So basically, if you want 10 different M4 complete character MATs, it's just about taking that original content folder and duplicating it 10 times and referencing whatever folder you need when you input M4. The *problem* comes in when you want two M4s with different MATs in the same render, because Carrara will see all M4s as having the same shaders and will load M4 with the shaders it originally referenced.

    But like I said, I think if we save the uploaded MAT as a new Global Shader like you referenced, I can take care of that final issue.

    (NOTE: when I keep saying "MAT" I'm meaning, say, the JPEG that contains M4s arms, legs and nails, etc)

    Post edited by BC Rice on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    BC Rice said:

    (NOTE: when I keep saying "MAT" I'm meaning, say, the JPEG that contains M4s arms, legs and nails, etc)


    To clear up any confusion, in the future you may wish to refer to the image file with the arms, legs etc as an image map, or map. It's built using the model's UV map and shading domains. The mat files you mention are Poser material files and contain references to the image maps and shading domains. I know it sounds like a matter of semantics, but they are different and depending on how you interchange the terms can be confusing to people trying to help.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,035
    edited December 1969

    Thanks EP :) and Hi :)

    I agree with Evil Producer,. the terminology used can be confusing and it's best to keep to the correct terms like "texture map", or Image. .

    To start with,. there's no need to create Multiple Duplicates of anything, but I would advise creating a couple of folders in you "My Shaders" area of the Carrara browser, for different shaders you create.

    the folders are located in your My Documents / Daz3D / Carrara / My Presets / My Shaders
    you can add more folders here for your own work.

    The simple way to create a New "Global shader" for any figure, is to simple start with the default shaders that are loaded when you load the figure into a scene.

    If you jump into the shader room, you'll see a list of all the different shaders on the right, and you can double click to edit any of these. (See pic)

    So, whether you want to adjust the bump value, or entirely replace the Texture maps used in this shader,. you can do that here.

    Once you've edited all the different shaders, then you can save that "Global shader",. whether it's a Figure shader, or an item of clothing, it's exactly the same.
    Edit the shaders to your liking, then save the global shader to the browser so you can use it in another scene.

    If you have different Texture maps which you want to use in a shader,
    you can Browse through your Poser, or DS folders and load the texture maps.

    Once you save the Global shader,.. carrara stores the locations of those Texture maps inside the shader,.. so that the next time you apply that shader to a figure or an item of clothing, carrara will load up the Texture maps, from wherever they were stored on your system.

    So, by loading different texture maps, or adjusting colours, or any other shader values,. then saving the Global shader, you create a New and Different shader that's unique.

    to make ten different Global shaders, you'd simply edit the same file ten times, changing the texture maps, or adjusting colours, or values, and once you're happy, you'd save the Global shader. (with a new name)

    In Carrara, more than one shader can share the same "Texture Map" but can have different values, for example: the Face, and Lips both share the same Texture map, but the lips are normally much shinier and glossy, so the settings for that shader need to be different while the base texture map is the same.

    The same would apply to several V4's or M4's in you're scene,
    They can have different Global shaders applied to them, and some of those shaders could share the same basic Texture maps, without any conflicts.

    Hope it helps :)

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