GoZ in Poser2012 - review

MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
edited August 2012 in Poser Discussion

I tested yesterday GoZ in Poser2012 latest version build
well working with Gen4 was easy in and out ,importing morph for individual groups etc..
however there are some issues.

1 negative point of it is that the imported props and figures does not include the correct scale and space data of the objects , they land scaled down 1000% in the middle of the figure ( 10 times smaller as they should be ) , need to be adjusted manually with scale and correct space position .
If you work with simple prop yes but if you create clothing or fiber meshes that need to be accurate the way you made it importing manually will do the job for you better and quicker .

the verdict ? thumb down on both hands
I was excited but no more as it does not improve any work at all ..

if they correct the 2 points allowing importing full body morphs and correct scale then yes it would be great
I was for plan to edit the plugin as well but did not succeed

but if you are going to make some new faces for your gen4 models then you can use it as well without any issues .
also rigged some imported fibers in Poser and it handle the fibers very well without any issues on bending , so no poly explosions, the fibers are fully flexible what is a plus ..I missing it in DS

you can't have everything I guess :)

Cath

Post edited by MEC4D on

Comments

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 211
    edited December 1969

    And you put in a bug report on it?

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    No I don't but that must be clear to everyone that used it once ..
    and for sure they already know about that

    Ghostman said:
    And you put in a bug report on it?

  • edited December 1969

    I use it for morphs and that works without any problem.
    This is the first time I heard anyone telling that the scale is not correct, so I wouldn't be too sure that SM knows about it. It does not hurt to report it

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    And if it's a configuration issue or conflict on your machine, rather than a general bug, they may be able to help you fix it.

  • adzanadzan Posts: 209
    edited December 1969

    only time i've seen a scale difference is when the figure is imported using - File > import > ZBrush, rather than using the Poser Goz link which is - Figure > Export Figure Mesh To Goz, which just updates the figure when sending from ZBrush back to Poser

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited August 2012

    Do anybody read first before reply ? there is no problem importing morphs for the figure in Poser from Zbrush
    Try to import modeled clothing or even fiber back into the scene and see what will happen , it will be not where it should be , manually no issues .. just for the new created stuff in zbrush

    If i create hair for genesis in zbrush and hit the goz button it import the hair straight on the head, and what it does in Poser, it scale it down 10 times and place in the middle of the figure and not where it should land .and that is only the issue with the plugin I had ..

    I found also many issues with the GoZ for DS and in the last build everything was fixed even request the option for having choice on the sub-d and it was added also , so not bs here .. not to mention who found the double ID issue

    Post edited by MEC4D on
  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    I made for your video it is only for this thread as it is not listed under public, see for yourself

    and maybe you can report as I don;t know where

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMIjoQp-RnE&feature=youtu.be

  • edited December 1969

    I already reported it

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    Thank you !

    WimvdB said:
    I already reported it

  • edited December 1969

    Your video was extremely helpful here. I did not even know that you could do that. Learned something new

  • adzanadzan Posts: 209
    edited August 2012

    because you are creating the hair in zbrush and not using goz to export it from poser it is considered a new object so is imported as a new prop using the minuscule poser dimensions that the poser goz link uses, scaling the item to 1000% will bring it back to poser size. I'm not sure if there's a way to correct the placement / scaling automatically.
    But if you're creating a new item then importing the Object has always been the usually way to get the items into Poser so wouldn't that still be the case even with Goz.

    The Poser Goz link is very new and it will need some teething problems ironed out and hopefully get some improvement

    Post edited by adzan on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    Using GoZ to bring newly created items to the app at the other end is one of its purposes, it isn't just for creating morphs/blend shapes.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    If I have to do it manually then I don't need GoZ , they should also include update of the morphs in case you want to fix something , DAZ got his GoZ excellent and the way it should work , it is a bridge fro import and export anything as Richard already mentioned so little waste of plugin if it works only half way , Poser do recognize the new geometry but forgot to check up the rest of the data , and trust me in detailed work nobody will waste time scaling and made placement if I can do it just in sec by importing the file manually so this option need to be fixed or removed , I am still curious how the import of the full body will affect the joins as Poser does not include rigging information in Morphs so it can get very nasty if you don't keep an eye on the group edges while working on full body morph , we will see what next.

    adzan said:
    because you are creating the hair in zbrush and not using goz to export it from poser it is considered a new object so is imported as a new prop using the minuscule poser dimensions that the poser goz link uses, scaling the item to 1000% will bring it back to poser size. I'm not sure if there's a way to correct the placement / scaling automatically.
    But if you're creating a new item then importing the Object has always been the usually way to get the items into Poser so wouldn't that still be the case even with Goz.

    The Poser Goz link is very new and it will need some teething problems ironed out and hopefully get some improvement

  • adzanadzan Posts: 209
    edited August 2012

    From reading of the Poser manual the current use of goz is specific to the creation of Morphs and Normal / Displacement Maps, they haven't specified any other variations of it's use.

    How we use goz with other programs doesn't seem to be how the Poser team envisioned we would use the first release of their Goz. hopefully it's a work in progress


    you can just overwrite a morph if you want to update or change it, just use the same name for the morph and it will overwrite the old morph

    Post edited by adzan on
  • KerwinKerwin Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    There is a work-around to this bug. It isn't perfect, but it let's you get the job done until SM revs the GoZ plugin:

    ---------------------- Recipe ------------------------------------

    In Poser:
    * Export a copy of your core figure as an .obj with default settings; then GoZ as normal to bring your figure into Zbrush. This would be the Andybot in Mec4D's video. I call this .obj file a "dummy".

    In Zbrush:
    * Create your new geometry by whatever means suits you (extract, fiber generator, etc.) Clone this subtool.
    * Load the dummy .obj into Zbrush as a new tool (e.g. switch to a different tool like the zsphere or the polymesh)
    * Append the clone to your dummy.
    * Export the cloned subtool from it's appended position as a .obj.

    In Poser:
    * Import the new geometry into with no options checked on the import menu.

    --------------------------- End Recipe ----------------------------------

    This only needs to be done for NEW geometry created in ZB. Once you have brought the geometry back into Poser by the above recipe, you can use GoZ to sculpt up morphs for your new accessory without problems. The scaling/position problem appears to be confined to newly created geometry in Zbrush (fibers, extracts, etc.)

    Why this works: The issue is a matter of scale/position. The GoZ receiver on Poser's side seems to get confused with a new piece of geometry it never saw before coming back from Zbrush and doesn't apply the right settings. By appending the new geometry to a dummy of the core figure, the scaling information is transferred to the subtools. (You can see these parameters in the Tool -> Export section of the Tools pallet.) By saving the geometry for the first time from ZBrush as an .obj and then bringing it into poser through the .obj import feature, the correct scale & position are applied.

    I know it does add four more steps to GoZ's traditional two, but they are not especially onerous. Again, this is a fix for new geometry created in ZB.

    -K

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    They should add also the option to update the mesh at import or create only morph , using GoZ for many months this option is very handy especially when you decide to change the UV's , for now you can do it manually anyway .
    The way I show in the video how to import manually the hair that would fit the figure is the way I am doing clothing and stuff and as you said after importing manually the new prop that match your scales you can use GoZ to rework the details by import export , however stuff like fiber would be no more editable this way and fresh copy need to be loaded manually again if there are some issues you don't like , anyway it is a great improvement for people that create mostly morphs and deformations at this moment .
    I was for plan to finish this way Genesis shapes for use with Gen4 what would bring some fresh air to them together with new UV's so some products can be used on gen that was made for genesis , like character textures etc.. (no morphs) as Zbrush allow me to transfer any shape to any model on my choice that would be much fun .

  • KerwinKerwin Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    ... however stuff like fiber would be no more editable this way and fresh copy need to be loaded manually again if there are some issues you don't like...

    The best way to do this is to keep a copy of the tool as a ZTL (ZB's native Ztool format.) One of the limitations for GoZ (on most platforms) is that reduces the Ztool to just a mesh (at least that'a been my experience with Photoshop, Maya and Modo.) The steps I've outlined above, (attach the fibemesh to a clone, export as obj, import as obj into Poser) can be repeated as needed to make adjustments.

    The next time I see the Pixologic guys, I'll mention the idea of somehow llinking the subtool to the exported mesh through GoZ so that when you go back through GoZ from Poser or Modo (other GoZ app) it can picked up a linked ZTL format like an unfrozen fibermesh or a prim.) GoZ was largely envisioned to support Polymeshs in ZB. Fibers, prims, and dynamesh's are something a special case (though dynamesh's have a consistent polymesh form to be exported.) The capability may already be there in GoZ somewhere and the programmer at SM just needs to add the code on the Poser side.

    Cheers!
    -K

  • KerwinKerwin Posts: 0
    edited August 2012

    Mec4D said:
    ... they will not bother to write manual on half done plugin as they know it does not works the way it suppose to work....

    The GoZ plugin is indeed documented: Poser Reference Manual (July 31st, 2012 rev), pages 713-23. It's in Chapter 32: Using Poser with Other Applications. I think it pretty clearly details the morphing and maps cases, which from all reliable reports was their intent for the GoZ plugin. This manual should have been installed when you updated to SR3.

    I'm not aware that Smith Micro has advertised that it would import new geometry perfectly from Zbrush (I can't find this in the documentation.) I'm pretty sure the plugin works for the key use cases offered in the documentation:
    1. creating morphs,
    2. morphing multiple items,
    3. creating JCMs,
    4. creating texture maps,
    5. creating normal and displacement maps

    I'm not sure that qualifies as "half done" as these were pretty high on the Zbrush-Poser communities list of things to do with ZB and Poser together.

    Personally, I'd like the see the next version simplify handling multiple overlapping UV maps more gracefully (All the hiding & showing and group-splitting is annoying--I create paint dummys with just groups for the UV islands rather than use GoZ because of this weakness.)

    -K

    Post edited by Kerwin on
  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,721
    edited December 1969

    My Opinion is personal , maybe it is great for others that don;t know other way, but not for me
    I use GoZ plugins to export stuff for previews before final export as I always make extra copy just in case and not just ztl files
    I do never works on just group morphs but on full figure as it works better for me , and I do a lot of original stuff for my customers so not editing other people stuff as much , I would love to have full functional bridge to avoid export import for testing .

    But one good thing here is that by exporting full figure with the GoZ , Zbrush keep the actual data of the scene propotions what is more as I needed , how many Victorias I need to export to Zbrush , no more as 1 , but a ton of stuff I need to import back ..and most of them are original creation so I hope you understand my point of you , if you get use to good stuff it is hard to take just half bite and skip the rest for later .. it just can't do for me more as I do already for years , but it could make the workflow faster as well .

    And trust me on that, the intent was not just only on that .. and will not end on that , that is the reason I entered the game again ..

    Kerwin said:
    Mec4D said:
    ... they will not bother to write manual on half done plugin as they know it does not works the way it suppose to work....

    The GoZ plugin is indeed documented: Poser Reference Manual (July 31st, 2012 rev), pages 713-23. It's in Chapter 32: Using Poser with Other Applications. I think it pretty clearly details the morphing and maps cases, which from all reliable reports was their intent for the GoZ plugin. This manual should have been installed when you updated to SR3.

    I'm not aware that Smith Micro has advertised that it would import new geometry perfectly from Zbrush (I can't find this in the documentation.) I'm pretty sure the plugin works for the key use cases offered in the documentation:
    1. creating morphs,
    2. morphing multiple items,
    3. creating JCMs,
    4. creating texture maps,
    5. creating normal and displacement maps

    I'm not sure that qualifies as "half done" as these were pretty high on the Zbrush-Poser communities list of things to do with ZB and Poser together.

    Personally, I'd like the see the next version simplify handling multiple overlapping UV maps more gracefully (All the hiding & showing and group-splitting is annoying--I create paint dummys with just groups for the UV islands rather than use GoZ because of this weakness.)

    -K

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