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is this a forum or a place where we all say goodbye? i’ve read the last 5 posts only things about…
Posted: 23 August 2012 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:49 AM

Some people are just so touchy around here.

You’re lecturing people on how to do their job, how would you react if someone walked into your workplace and started doing that to you based on incomplete knowledge?

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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DWG - 23 August 2012 08:25 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:30 AM

I also understand if you have never used any other program other than a daz program to make art, then you properly won’t understand the feeling why some user are complaining about the lack of merchandise to buy at the daz store for poser

There’s plenty of non-DAZ compatible stuff around, there’s a whole lot of Poser Dynamic stuff I’d really like to use (I can probably import it and rig it using the Clothing Creation utility, but that’s new since DS4 and I’ve been around since DS2 if not DS1)

Yes, but you could also do it using the Figure Setup Tools, and those have been around for a long time.  It just isn’t worth it most of the time.

Kendall

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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DWG - 23 August 2012 08:25 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:30 AM

I also understand if you have never used any other program other than a daz program to make art, then you properly won’t understand the feeling why some user are complaining about the lack of merchandise to buy at the daz store for poser

There’s plenty of non-DAZ compatible stuff around, there’s a whole lot of Poser Dynamic stuff I’d really like to use (I can probably import it and rig it using the Clothing Creation utility, but that’s new since DS4 and I’ve been around since DS2 if not DS1)

Yup there is mostly older products I already own.
22 pages set at 50 items per page of stuff in my account.
I’m not bashful in buying things i like i can use.
most of the products i bought when daz have there march madness sales or other promo offers.

I totaled up my credit card statement for this month. Yikes !!!

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 08:18 AM

. . . SickleYield and several other PA’s have stated, in the past, how much more work supporting Gen4 characters are than Genesis.  They’ve also discussed how little returns they get G4 vs Gn . . .

I’m wondering, is this a good place for PAs to pair up?  One makes the original product for their preferred generation, then hands it off to the other for a pro-level conversion (yes, for Mil4 to Genesis Autofits’s gotten lots better, but still), then they both release their products at the same time (with a bundle for the bundle-lovers, that’d be nice).  The Genesis-loving PA doesn’t have to take the Mil4-work risk, the Mil4-forever PA doesn’t have to touch Genesis, both tap their respective markets without cutting into each other’s profits, and neither gets hit with “but why not for mine?” complaints.

Not sure what the most equitable monetary arrangement would be for that, but (from my non-PA perspective, of course) I’d think it’d work out great for everybody!  And even better for the texture-product PAs, since they’ll get customers from both the Genesis and Mil4 pools for the same product.

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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DWG - 23 August 2012 08:31 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:49 AM

Some people are just so touchy around here.

You’re lecturing people on how to do their job, how would you react if someone walked into your workplace and started doing that to you based on incomplete knowledge?

who is lecturing?.  I thought this was a discussion forum. I am discussing the needs of the poser user . and how to maybe solve some of this conflict of product compatibility issue.
How is that lecturing? I don’t understand your comment here?

some people do get very upset (touchy) when you talk about something else other than Daz or needing something to work other than in Genesis. that was my point. How is that lecturing again?

 

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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KickAir 8P - 23 August 2012 08:38 AM
Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 08:18 AM

. . . SickleYield and several other PA’s have stated, in the past, how much more work supporting Gen4 characters are than Genesis.  They’ve also discussed how little returns they get G4 vs Gn . . .

I’m wondering, is this a good place for PAs to pair up?  One makes the original product for their preferred generation, then hands it off to the other for a pro-level conversion (yes, for Mil4 to Genesis Autofits’s gotten lots better, but still), then they both release their products at the same time (with a bundle for the bundle-lovers, that’d be nice).  The Genesis-loving PA doesn’t have to take the Mil4-work risk, the Mil4-forever PA doesn’t have to touch Genesis, both tap their respective markets without cutting into each other’s profits, and neither gets hit with “but why not for mine?” complaints.

Not sure what the most equitable monetary arrangement would be for that, but (from my non-PA perspective, of course) I’d think it’d work out great for everybody!  And even better for the texture-product PAs, since they’ll get customers from both the Genesis and Mil4 pools.

I like your thinking smile

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Please try to remember the terms of the Daz3d TOS, specifically the part that reads

Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual.

Thankyou

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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” I still made more money than I did last year with Gen4 items.”

Yes that tends to happen when you charge more for something you have put less time in to.

Personally I have been priced out of using genesis. And fail to understand why something that is easier to do and takes less time should cost half again as much.
Half the difficulty, done in half the time, at twice the price is always a good formula to make money.

More over with the genesis fit to system why make clothes specifically for it? Just make them for the gen4 figures and let the app do it’s job. But I can understand why not, more profit from making items for genesis; less work, less time, higher price means more profit.

How do you get people to switch from mil4 to genesis? Quit making items for mil 4. If DAZ had continued to support the mil4 figures there would still be a lot of poser folk shopping here.

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Male-M3dia - 23 August 2012 08:18 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:49 AM

what do you sell for products,  Character models or Props? that would make a difference in your sales.
Also I could not find your store and it was not listed on your profile.  when did you start becoming a vender pre- Genesis or post genesis?

I sell characters here at DAZ… so it would definitely make a difference. I started before Genesis, so I can compare my sales of pre-Genesis against afterwards, which is why after all the store issues, I still made more money than I did last year with Gen4 items.

Also, we were one of the first PAs that sold dual Gen4/Genesis in any store and did it for about five months before separating the products out to see if it impacted sales. But during that time, we had to do morphs twice, fix seams twice, do materials 5 times (Poser/DS/HSS) and make sure that all those calls weren’t messed up between both versions and go through QA to verify each download. Also in some products both Gen4 and Genesis had the same face mixing capability (as we did with our first Gen4 characters), so the Gen4 morphs were injected through ExP. So these are generally larger projects than what you’ve previously listed. Our last product in Gen4 also included face mixing and scaling M4, something that people had been asking for with David 4.

Have you ever made gen4 products in the past? if you did then it shouldn’t be that hard for you to make a dual program program product now unless you choose not to for other reasons such as resources or time involved.
<snip>

Think I covered this already.

Some people are just so touchy around here.

No, just more informed about some things than others wink

Edit: Also check for characters in here as well:

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/forbiddenwhispers?p=2

Seems some of the characters are missing from search like Ryuu for M4/Genesis, Abigail for V4/Genesis and Nigel for M4/Genesis.

I own a ton of your stuff. nothing new you came out with though. Great stuff.

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Posted: 23 August 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:30 AM

Thanks for repeating what I already said. smile
Though I don’t see how it would be any harder or take any more effort now to make clothing for gen4 now than it did a year ago before genesis came out. I just don’t understand that thinking????

My opinion is if the artist don’t want to make a dual product then that is fine & their choice there are are also artist at renderousity as well that just cater to just either poser or just to daz.  same for content paradise and runtimeDNA.. But the same thing for those sites as well, if the dual program users can’t use the product then they don’t buy it.

BUT…. The artist that are catering to both gen5 and gen4 - Daz & Poser for within the same product package are doing much better sales for each of the products they release.( Hence you are rewarded for your extra effort with sales you would have other wised missed out on.. That is just ” Logical”

  Its no skin off my teeth if i don’t have gen5 clothing. Or a gen5 model character to use in poser & Daz 3a I can still find great stuff to buy else where. don’t you think Daz store would have liked a percentage of what I and other spent this month other places because we couldn’t get it here. if you say no then you would be kidding yourself.

I also understand if you have never used any other program other than a daz program to make art, then you properly won’t understand the feeling why some user are complaining about the lack of merchandise to buy at the daz store for poser

I am being optimistic here and saying hopefully soon in the future Daz and Poser will once again be able to share its content folder like it once was able to. with out having to have tools and script and jumping through hoops to use it then there won’t be a issue any longer.

 

As has been pointed out there are still poser usable items being released here along side genesis items, just because you can use all items is your own fault for limited the apps you use. Any user that decides to stick with one app is going to limit their options, plain and simple. There is a whole world of options other than poser and DS to can use 3d figures and create renders and animations, it’s your choice as to what you can use. I use both poser and DS and find that genesis (and DS4 pro) cuts my workflow time in half. I feel that if not having genesis compatible with poser makes users expand their mindset and creative options, that is a good thing.

 

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Posted: 23 August 2012 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 08:18 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 08:15 AM
Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 08:11 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:49 AM

I’m glad you put “opinion” on this post because considering you’re not actually vendoring, but it’s way more than a little effort to support both for the overall return… especially if you’re doing a quality job for both generations, not just one and the other as an afterthought. After all the issues and headaches of getting both gen 4 and genesis products out the door for marginal return, most of our products will be “either or”, not both.

what do you sell for products,  Character models or Props? that would make a difference in your sales.
Also I could not find your store and it was not listed on your profile.  when did you start becoming a vender pre- Genesis or post genesis?

Have you ever made gen4 products in the past? if you did then it shouldn’t be that hard for you to make a dual program program product now unless you choose not to for other reasons such as resources or time involved.
Though I also bet if you would have made your character products(if that’s what you sell) for both poser and daz your sale would have been even better That would be logical if you been reading the complaints on these threads.
Don’t hate the poser user because we are complaining of lack of compatible products . Try to understand our point of view of being a user of multiple programs.. Just like you we don’t want to work harder to use a product any more than you want to work harder to produce one.

Some people are just so touchy around here.


http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=male-m3dia

Kendall

Thanks Kendall for the link.
Though I already own the v4 products on this store.smile

Ivy,
  You may want to do a bit more research.  SickleYield and several other PA’s have stated, in the past, how much more work supporting Gen4 characters are than Genesis.  They’ve also discussed how little returns they get G4 vs Gn.

Kendall

I do understand the time in development vs sale rational
I have read their post and i can understand it does take extra time to produce for dual programs. and the cost efectiveness of the product may not meet expectations.
but a dollar is a dollar and a sale is a sale.
I work for a ISP company,  do you think my company stop selling dial up just because everyone has gone to high speed DLS.
My company still sells Dial up for the chance they still might make a buck off the service, which takes a little more effort to set up then DSL where you plug in a router and your done,

whether or not if it is worth the vender to make for both programs or not i guess would be their choice.  I was just making a suggestion on maybe increasing NEW Items that poser users can buy and use.
which might help curb some of this bickering between daz and poser users
I personally don;t care if i can use or not gen5 products.

Like I said poser users don’t want to work any harder using a Daz product than a Daz vender does to make it. So I guess it would be a matter of preference of the vender or poser user what they want to buy or sell.  But a buck is a buck.

 

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Posted: 23 August 2012 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Ivy - 23 August 2012 09:12 AM

I work for a ISP company,  do you think my company stop selling dial up just because everyone has gone to high speed DLS.
My company still sells Dial up for the chance they still might make a buck off the service, which takes a little more effort to set up then DSL where you plug in a router and your done,

However, if your company is spending $50 US /per landline for dialup users (which is lowball for a business line), and let’s say that you have 4 dialup users that pay $10/month.  Your company is losing money by having just *1* dialup line.  I can guarantee you that that won’t last long.

A buck coming in is not the same as making a buck.  If it costs $2 to bring in $1, that’s not going happen for very long.  Generally, one needs to make $3 for every $2 in order to be viable.  And that doesn’t account for Taxes.  Add taxes to the mix, then the ratio goes to $3 for every $1.  Simple College Freshman Business econ 101.

Kendall

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Posted: 23 August 2012 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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FSMCDesigns - 23 August 2012 08:58 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 07:30 AM

Thanks for repeating what I already said. smile
Though I don’t see how it would be any harder or take any more effort now to make clothing for gen4 now than it did a year ago before genesis came out. I just don’t understand that thinking????

My opinion is if the artist don’t want to make a dual product then that is fine & their choice there are are also artist at renderousity as well that just cater to just either poser or just to daz.  same for content paradise and runtimeDNA.. But the same thing for those sites as well, if the dual program users can’t use the product then they don’t buy it.

BUT…. The artist that are catering to both gen5 and gen4 - Daz & Poser for within the same product package are doing much better sales for each of the products they release.( Hence you are rewarded for your extra effort with sales you would have other wised missed out on.. That is just ” Logical”

  Its no skin off my teeth if i don’t have gen5 clothing. Or a gen5 model character to use in poser & Daz 3a I can still find great stuff to buy else where. don’t you think Daz store would have liked a percentage of what I and other spent this month other places because we couldn’t get it here. if you say no then you would be kidding yourself.

I also understand if you have never used any other program other than a daz program to make art, then you properly won’t understand the feeling why some user are complaining about the lack of merchandise to buy at the daz store for poser

I am being optimistic here and saying hopefully soon in the future Daz and Poser will once again be able to share its content folder like it once was able to. with out having to have tools and script and jumping through hoops to use it then there won’t be a issue any longer.

 

As has been pointed out there are still poser usable items being released here along side genesis items, just because you can use all items is your own fault for limited the apps you use. Any user that decides to stick with one app is going to limit their options, plain and simple. There is a whole world of options other than poser and DS to can use 3d figures and create renders and animations, it’s your choice as to what you can use. I use both poser and DS and find that genesis (and DS4 pro) cuts my workflow time in half. I feel that if not having genesis compatible with poser makes users expand their mindset and creative options, that is a good thing.

Yes I agree there are a lot of props and environment models for both poser and genesis
Clothing not so much I know i shop this site all the time looking .
I never said I didn’t like the looks of the gen5 clothing.. But I’m not going to make any more effort in using it than the vender is going to creating it.
I don;t understand why not just produce for gen4 to begin with and as Stan suggest make the auto-fit tool do the work for the genesis user.  Or is that like to much effort for the genesis user.

see where i am going here? It is a catch22 for sure. But Daz4 is free. we paid for poser
I fyou were a poser user you would properly have the same thoughts about genesis as i and many others poser users do..

I’m not telling anyone how to run or what to make .. But as a consumer I can make suggestions . whether or not the vender what to listen to the consumer is their choice.

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Posted: 23 August 2012 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 09:22 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 09:12 AM

I work for a ISP company,  do you think my company stop selling dial up just because everyone has gone to high speed DLS.
My company still sells Dial up for the chance they still might make a buck off the service, which takes a little more effort to set up then DSL where you plug in a router and your done,

However, if your company is spending $50 US /per landline for dialup users (which is lowball for a business line), and let’s say that you have 4 dialup users that pay $10/month.  Your company is losing money by having just *1* dialup line.  I can guarantee you that that won’t last long.

A buck coming in is not the same as making a buck.  If it costs $2 to bring in $1, that’s not going happen for very long.  Generally, one needs to make $3 for every $2 in order to be viable.  And that doesn’t account for Taxes.  Add taxes to the mix, then the ratio goes to $3 for every $1.  Simple College Freshman Business econ 101.

Kendall


Last company I worked for (major company) our normal margin on a contract quote was 10%, which means in real terms that a £1,000,000 per year contract gross actually netted £100,000 pa before tax.

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Posted: 23 August 2012 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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chohole - 23 August 2012 09:28 AM
Kendall Sears - 23 August 2012 09:22 AM
Ivy - 23 August 2012 09:12 AM

I work for a ISP company,  do you think my company stop selling dial up just because everyone has gone to high speed DLS.
My company still sells Dial up for the chance they still might make a buck off the service, which takes a little more effort to set up then DSL where you plug in a router and your done,

However, if your company is spending $50 US /per landline for dialup users (which is lowball for a business line), and let’s say that you have 4 dialup users that pay $10/month.  Your company is losing money by having just *1* dialup line.  I can guarantee you that that won’t last long.

A buck coming in is not the same as making a buck.  If it costs $2 to bring in $1, that’s not going happen for very long.  Generally, one needs to make $3 for every $2 in order to be viable.  And that doesn’t account for Taxes.  Add taxes to the mix, then the ratio goes to $3 for every $1.  Simple College Freshman Business econ 101.

Kendall


Last company I worked for (major company) our normal margin on a contract quote was 10%, which means in real terms that a £1,000,000 per year contract gross actually netted £100,000 pa before tax.

I should have clarified that I was using direct costs (materials)/sale and not adding employee/infrastructure.  Indeed, after adding in Utilities, Employee Salaries, etc a 3:1 comes out many times to sub 1 returns.  I didn’t want to get into the deep econ for a thread here.

Kendall

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