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Posted: 06 October 2012 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 406 ]
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Sockratese


A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good…

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Posted: 06 October 2012 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 407 ]
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tsarist - 06 October 2012 01:44 PM

Sockratese


A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good…

Would you quit that!  Now I’m craving Millennium Cow, errr, hamburgers.

grin

Kendall

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Posted: 06 October 2012 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 408 ]
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Sockratease - 06 October 2012 01:23 PM

I have my own issues with Daz…

In way of explanation : my first Poser Render!

Where did you get that cool cowch she’s sitting on?


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Posted: 06 October 2012 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 409 ]
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Surely they made a back up before they cooked her?

Coldrake - 06 October 2012 02:01 PM

Where did you get that cool cowch she’s sitting on?


Coldrake

It’s free with Poser Debut - I just scaled it along one axis to fit The Cow.

 

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Posted: 06 October 2012 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 410 ]
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tsarist - 06 October 2012 01:44 PM

Sockratese


A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good…

Boy those look really good. Add a few pieces of bacon and they’d be golden.

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Posted: 06 October 2012 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 411 ]
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Kludge - 05 October 2012 11:39 PM

But now DAZ has Genesis and the world is suddenly no longer spinning properly on its axis which has tumbled anyway and dogs & cats are living together and Lower Slobovia has discovered fire and all sorts of other horrific things are happening.  Never mind that DAZ is still being nice to Poser users since they are a strong part of the customer base.  We Haz Genesis and that’s all that counts.  Well, we haz toiz for Genesis too which are an obvious indicator that DAZ has abandoned Poser (et al) users.  Not.

Daz isn’t being nice to Poser users. If they choose to continue supporting Poser users, it’s for their money, as with any other company.

So now comes a question.  If having one character that doesn’t work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is “abandoning the user base”, then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?

If you or anyone else is really still in denial about the changes around here as far as Poser compatible products, nothing I can do to convince you. Something was said months ago (was it the new CEO?) about continuing with the Genesis technology for their future figures. If this is the case, I’m sure Poser support will stop all together here at some point.

If SM (and other Poser owners) had always been a place to find DS content, and then things drastically changed you all might be able to understand our frustration.

That’s just it, I don’t understand it since you still have the absolute Queen of all, V4.  You have characters DAZ users can’t use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND.  Genesis can be exported to Poser - albeit as a “Genesis Lite” version at present - as a CR2 and from all indications, something is being worked on to improve that exportability.  GOK what at present but something.  This doesn’t sound like “abandoning the user base” to me.  If it does to you then by all means follow your heart and if that means leaving DAZ for other sources then enjoy.  I know I use several sources not just DAZ as I’m sure many do.  I buy from who has what I need and if several do the one that matches my budget best wins.

If that many people want those characters and they don’t work in DS, they should be asking for DS versions of them, just like we ask for Poser versions of things we want.

Some people have no desire or time learn to use DS, and others (like me) cannot run DS at all or get it to work well enough to even attempt to use the exporter. I’m sure Daz doesn’t want to abandon Poser users, if for no other reason than $. We are/were a huge part of their income. I shop at the other stores a lot more over the last year or so than I used to. I never used to limit myself to shopping here, but always tried to spend my money here first for some reason.

Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A.  I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn’t so using them together works out pretty nicely.

If you prefer DS3A and V4 you belong on the frustrated side of the fence.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 12:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 412 ]
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Kludge - 05 October 2012 03:34 AM

People aren’t being freakishly childish. They are being incredibly logical. Vicky isn’t just another figure.  She is THE figure.

No argument with the last sentence.  But their problem isn’t with Vickie, it’s with Genesis.  Since Genesis doesn’t yet work well with other software, they want to quit.  That is being freakishly childish.

...no, some of us just feel there is less and less that Daz has to offer if one doesn’t or cannot use 4.x/Genesis.

 

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Posted: 07 October 2012 12:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 413 ]
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If software is upgraded with newer versions, new features require different and new system requirements. If a software company limits itself with the original system requirements then the new features we come to love are not possible, rendering the software obsolete as the other software companies will overtake them like a horse and cart on a freeway.

It’s the same with every other form of software, DVD’s, CD’s, Photoshop, Video Games, Word Applications etc. You cant seriously expect any software company to continue to upgrade obsolete software. It’s unpractical, ridiculously costly and not necessary. Those of us who play the latest revolutionary PC Games must upgrade. Simple as that.

I’m not targeting anyone, I’m just laying out the facts.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 414 ]
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...all I am saying is as Daz continues on this path, there is less and less they will have to offer for those of us who cannot afford to keep pace. In the past it was not as quite as difficult for the base models and meshes still for the most part worked in older versions of the application,  However, 4.x and Genesis are a major departure, a watershed of sorts, and some of us are unfortunately caught on the “other” side and thus see little incentive to remain.  I wish it didn’t have to be this way, but that is the nature of business and progress.


I believe that is the gist of this thread.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 02:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 415 ]
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I agree it does suck, and you of all people know that even my computer barley runs 4.5. but it’s not something I blame daz for, and I acknowledge that yes I need a more modem computer. I was in your shoes when 2011 3ds max came out, but at the end of the day this is the world of technology. So yeah, it may be long time to save up, but you do get there if you put your mind to it. smile

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Posted: 07 October 2012 02:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 416 ]
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...it’s not even so much the hardware as it’s having to also get all the Gen5 clothing content (Autofit is far from even “adequate”), plugins, and such all over again to get to the level I already have with S3A/Poser Pro2010.  Just not in the cards budget-wise anymore with RL expenses becoming more difficult to handle on an income that isn’t keeping pace.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 03:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 417 ]
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Sockratease - 06 October 2012 02:06 PM

Surely they made a back up before they cooked her?

 
Um, well, they thought they had…

I hear it was some kind of “I thought you did.” things. grrr


Sorry, man… I wish they hadn’t let go of the guy who designed it.

He was working on K5 and the K4 shape, and they decided they weren’t going to do that, so they didn’t need him.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 03:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 418 ]
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Frank0314 - 06 October 2012 02:07 PM
tsarist - 06 October 2012 01:44 PM

Sockratese


A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good…

Boy those look really good. Add a few pieces of bacon and they’d be golden.

Well We know what happened to the Mil Pig now too!! ROTFLMAO

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Posted: 07 October 2012 03:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 419 ]
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tsarist - 06 October 2012 12:12 PM
Kludge - 05 October 2012 03:34 AM

Today I was working with a scene that had elements from Gen1 to Gen4 and they all played together nicely. Genesis changed all that.

No, it didn’t.  Don’t use Genesis.  Simple as that.  There is no requirement that anyone use any character, much the less a new one that doesn’t work well in other software.

Well, actually it does. Read my sentence again. All the generations played in the same sandbox happily together. Gen4 hair on Gen1 figures. Gen 2 era props wielded by Gen4 figures. I cannot load Gen5 characters or even Gen 5 hair into the scenes. Sounds like a change to me.

So?  As I said, don’t use Genesis.  Your sandbox still works as is.  There is nothing saying you absolutely positively have to add it. 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that, yes, Genesis is a whole new ballgame but no one has to play who doesn’t want to or can’t for whatever reason.

Kludge - 05 October 2012 03:34 AM

Recently, a freebie was released that could only be used in DS4. The freebie was a prop, so it just as well could have been made for Poser and Daz.

Could you refresh my memory on this because it’s not ringing any bells.

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/shadow-warrior-addons
Nice little set that could just as well been available for Poser and Genesis.

The Shadow Warriors for which it’s an add-on is a Genesis product so it makes sense that it would also be for Genesis.

Kludge - 05 October 2012 11:39 PM

Then Smith Micro introduced characters that didn’t work all that well in Studio.  Dey Got Toiz We Doesn’t!  An’ der’s Stuph out there for dem we can’t use!  An’ da hue and cry went up all over DAZ-land and all was sadness and mortification.  Not.

There was no sadness and mortification because Smith Micros figures just aren’t that popular. I know Poser users who ONLY use DAZ figures. You really aren’t comparing the same things.

Did you notice the “Not” at the end of that? 

So there exist Poser users who only use DAZ products.  That’s cool.  How many are there who use a mix or only Poser figures?  Yes, we know that V4 is the Crowning Achievement in all 3D-land and all other figures pale in her presence but not everyone sees her that way.  I know several folks who love playing with Poser’s figures, especially the newer ones.  And I know one individual who still uses Posette and Dork almost exclusively.  She upgrades Poser all the time but stays with those two figures.  I have no idea why.

Daz make THE figures.

DAZ is predominant with the figures but not everyone shares your belief.  As I said, there are those who prefer to “keep it in the family” and use only Poser figures.  Are they wrong in doing so or are they free to make their own choices?

Kludge - 05 October 2012 11:39 PM

So now comes a question.  If having one character that doesn’t work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is “abandoning the user base”, then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?

I guess you never heard of the “slippery slope.” Today it’s one figure. Tomorrow it’s props. The next day it’s buildings. The next…

Of course I have.  I also know that DAZ knows where their bread and butter comes from.  If they went to a strictly Studio 4.5 (or later) and Genesis environment they’d not only lose the Poser contingent but most of the folks who use Studio, Bryce and Carrara which pretty well wipes out their customer base.  They’re not in the business of going bankrupt.

Kludge - 05 October 2012 11:39 PM

The OP is quitting 3D art but if it’s that or just the PC or DAZ or whatever else comes to mind fits, then it’s it still comes down to the same thing.  “Boohoo, I’m gonna take my marbles and go home.”  Cool.  Enjoy.

Sometimes it’s time to take your marbles and go home. If it’s not fun anymore, why play?

If it takes that little to make it not fun anymore, then why get in the game in the first place?

Kludge - 05 October 2012 11:39 PM

Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A.  I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn’t so using them together works out pretty nicely.

This statement makes no sense to me when looking at all your posts.
If V4 is your model of choice, and DS3A and Poser7 are your platforms (neither of which can use Genesis) then why are you fighting so hard for Genesis?  That would be like a Pepsi user petitioning their local grocer to stop carrying Pepsi and start carrying Jarrito’s Cola.

I said preferred model, not exclusive one.  Same with DS3A and P7.  Why?  Because I find them easier to deal with while I’m learning.  I actually started with DS4 Beta and Genesis but dropped back and went with something more newbie friendly.  Meanwhile, I’ve got Studio 4.5 and Genesis with all the bells and whistles to play with while I’m figuring out what I’m doing with the more mature and stable products.  I could probably do with V4 or even the V4 morph for Genesis and DS4.5 but the DS4.x product isn’t stable yet and I’m not fond of the idea of no backward compatibility.  So, for now, I keep the two separate.

At the same time, I see tremendous potential with Genesis as sort of an “omnimesh” that can be anything or anyone the modeller chooses.  This will require a stable version of Studio that will support it and that hasn’t happened yet.  Do I think one will happen?  Not completely but one stable enough to be useable probably will. 

Oh, and what’s Jarrito’s Cola?

Maybe you’re just having a little fun on the internet today.
That’s fine. Fun is good.

If that’s what you think, it’s cool.  Doesn’t bother me a bit.

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Posted: 07 October 2012 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 420 ]
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Kendall Sears - 04 October 2012 07:42 AM
KageRyu - 04 October 2012 03:27 AM

Just for the record, Kyoto Kid is not the only person to have stability problems with DS3A in 32 bit environments.  Daz3D was aware of them, and there were countless posts in the old forums and promises to fix not just stability issues, but other features in DS3A that never worked properly, as well as to finish a complete manual for the customers.  All of these were abandoned when Daz went to version 4, and everyone who complained was jumped on ande accused of Daz-Bashing, and met with constant replies like “I’m not having those problems, so it must be YOUR computer”.

Nice to see it’s continuing.

Ummm… they DID fix those problems.  They just called it DS4.

Kendall

Which, in turn, introduced a new set of problems.  LOL

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