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Bye Bye Daz3d
Posted: 04 October 2012 05:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 361 ]
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KageRyu - 04 October 2012 05:00 PM
larsmidnatt - 04 October 2012 07:16 AM
KageRyu - 04 October 2012 03:27 AM

Just for the record, Kyoto Kid is not the only person to have stability problems with DS3A in 32 bit environments.  Daz3D was aware of them, and there were countless posts in the old forums and promises to fix not just stability issues, but other features in DS3A that never worked properly, as well as to finish a complete manual for the customers.  All of these were abandoned when Daz went to version 4, and everyone who complained was jumped on ande accused of Daz-Bashing, and met with constant replies like “I’m not having those problems, so it must be YOUR computer”.

Nice to see it’s continuing.

So people aren’t allowed to say it did work for them? Someone posts a one line reply sharing their experience and you dig up old war stories.

Seems like you’re the one who wants it to continue.

Several posts in this thread say quite specificly that no one else is reporting them - that’s not me just diggin up old war stories.

And this statement of yours proves my point.

@Kendall - going to a new version is not fixing the bugs in the version that was promised, especially when the newer version was even buggier for many people, and completely unusable by other who were happy with DS3 and just wanted the bug fixes promised.
.

I have to disagree with this last point.  ANY change would result in a version increment.  Whether that is a “point” increment or a “number” increment is immaterial.  The fixes were made.  In addition other things were done.  Eventually the number and scope of the changes justified a new “release.”

Regardless, there are too many people with chips on their shoulders.  I’ve read way too many posts from folks who obviously are looking for any reason whatsoever to create a stink…  Whether the reason is true or not.

Kendall

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Posted: 04 October 2012 06:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 362 ]
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ssgbryan - 18 September 2012 10:22 PM

Why do you think that DAZ looks at this as a schism?  Have you seen anything from DAZ that makes you think they look at this as a schism?  DAZ is going one way, and the Poser community is going in a different direction.

DAZ is looking for a new customer base - one that doesn’t have large, bloated runtimes of content.  Poser users aren’t just going to dump all of our Gen 4 content to use genesis - even if they move to DS4, because of autofit, all of the Gen 4 content can easily be worn by genesis. 

Poser users are going to buy a lot less than new users, therefore, they are not as important to DAZ.  It is Econ 101.

Long post warning.

In my rarely if ever humble opinion, this is true.  DAZ started off by making models for Poser but has grown since then by creating Studio and buying Bryce & Carrara.  They are, as a company, maturing and growing in a direction that no longer completely fits the Poser universe yet they still produce Poser compatible content.  They haven’t “forgotten their roots” as someone said on the old forums but are growing in a new direction that expands beyond those roots while still keeping them in mind.  I believe DAZ will always make Poser-compatible models on top of their new direction. 

Poser has the assorted Mikis, GND, BND and Anastasia who don’t map all that well, if at all, to Studio.  Do you hear any DAZ people complaining?  Yet DAZ introduces ONE model that doesn’t map well to Poser and elements of the Poser community get all upset because there’s a toy they can’t play with nice and easily.  DAZ is continuing to release Gen4 products but those Poser users can’t see that.  They just see Genesis and that it doesn’t play well (thus far) with Poser.  That’s just freakin’ being childish.  The Poser users with that attitude (who, thankfully, aren’t representative of the whole Poser community) should leave if that’s how they feel.  They have an “All for me and me for me” attitude which doesn’t work well in the 3D hobbyist community which a goodly number of us represent. 

As to others who’ve raised complaints about Genesis & Studio 4.x, if they don’t meet your needs then don’t use them.  Yes, Studio 4.x has issues and DAZ is aware of them and they are being addressed.  DS3A and the Gen3 & Gen4 are mature and reasonably stable so there’s no real reason to abandon them if you don’t want to.  Other users - those using Maya et al - are the same.  I’m not saying not to express an opinion.  That’s simply wrong on so many levels.  I am saying that expressing it as if we all are bound by the same rules isn’t appropriate.  (That includes mine as expressed here.)  We all have different projects and preferences.  We all have different wants and needs from the products we use.  If something’s not working for you then don’t use it.  Seems simple enough to me. 

What do I have?  DS 2.3, 3A and 4.5.0.114 (with the new Beta waiting to be loaded).  I have Gens 2, 3 and 4 characters (although I’ve never loaded D3.  Maybe I should?) but didn’t bother with Gen5.  I have GenX with the Gen3 & Gen4 whatzits to use instead.  With them, I have Ironman13’s fixes for V4 (the whole set) which really make a huge difference.  I also have P7 and plan to add PP2010 when I can get the cash.  (I can’t afford PP2012 and won’t be able to until it goes into end of life cycle when the next version is out.)  Bryce 7P and Carrara 6P are also available but not loaded at present.  There’s also the usual assortment of freebies which a number of us downtrodden masses have so we can make like we’re playing with the big boys. wink  Anyway, I keep Poser at hand because it can do things Studio can’t or has things that allow me to do stuff a lot more easily, the Face Room being an example.  I’m more comfortable with Studio but that’s probably because it’s what I started with - DS3 & DS4 Beta, to be exact.  (Of course, there are those who would say that DS 4.1 was nothing more than a post-Alpha pre-Beta for DS 4.5 but I would never say such thing.  I may think it though. *snicker*)

Oh, well.  I’ve said enough to raise the ire of the Moderaptorial Entities.  Wonder if I’ll get bounced ... ???

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Posted: 04 October 2012 07:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 363 ]
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Zev0 - 19 September 2012 05:11 PM

Jeez a quad core with 6gb ram is dirt cheap.

Define “dirt cheap” in terms of a VA disability pension, if you would.

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JACK TOMALIN APPRECIATION SOCIETY [JAS] III
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Posted: 04 October 2012 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 364 ]
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JasmineSkunk - 21 September 2012 03:07 PM

Always have hugs for you, KK… cuz you’re sweet and sensitive…

Hey, I’m sweet and sensitive too!  And loveable and cute and cuddly kinda like a rather large teddy bear. wink

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JACK TOMALIN APPRECIATION SOCIETY [JAS] III
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Posted: 04 October 2012 07:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 365 ]
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ssgbryan - 22 September 2012 01:21 PM

if I need a real monster, I’ll get one from Sixus1 or Sanctum Arts.

Heck, all I have to do is look in a mirror. tongue wink

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JACK TOMALIN APPRECIATION SOCIETY [JAS] III
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Posted: 04 October 2012 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 366 ]
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comment deleted.

Talking to people on the internet is pointless, especially when they act like children.

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Posted: 04 October 2012 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 367 ]
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@Kludge

You are completely right about a lot of things. You’ve got a good understanding of the big picture. It’s unfortunate that others can’t have your perspective!

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Posted: 04 October 2012 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 368 ]
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Kludge,
I have to disagree with you here.
Comparing DAZ’s models to Miki, GND, and the other Poser figures is like comparing Coca Cola to Jarritos Cola.
DAZ is the GOLD standard of characters. I know Poser users who never use Miki or any of those Poser figures. More stuff is released monthly for Vicky 4 than has ever been released for Miki.
DAZ makes the characters most people like to use.


Today I was working with a scene that had elements from Gen1 to Gen4 and they all played together nicely. Genesis changed all that. Recently, a freebie was released that could only be used in DS4. The freebie was a prop, so it just as well could have been made for Poser and Daz.


People aren’t being freakishly childish. They are being incredibly logical. Vicky isn’t just another figure.  She is THE figure.


For the record, my main tool is Carrara7Pro, which can’t use Genesis. C8.5 destroys people’s runtime and since I do this professionally, I can’t afford to have mine wiped out. So, no Genesis for me.
I also use DS2.3 (I have DS3A and DS4A). I do have Poser 7, but it is no longer installed.

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Posted: 04 October 2012 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 369 ]
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tsarist - 04 October 2012 08:16 PM

People aren’t being freakishly childish. They are being incredibly logical. Vicky isn’t just another figure.  She is THE figure.

I disagree with you here. You aren’t being childish. You have level-headed in all the post I’ve read of yours. However some others do act childish and illogical.

I say if Vicky floats your boat enjoy, but don’t begrudge those who use Genesis. I know you don’t give others a hard time, but you have to acknowledge there are some in this forum who just wait for the opportunity to complain that item X is Ds4 or genesis. Why constantly complain about tools others are using?

I do understand that PC members especially like to see continued support in their preferred packages, but Daz hasn’t done anything to prevent people from using older models in whatever software they have been using up until now. including THE model V4.

I would begrudge Daz if they stopped supporting Genesis in less than 2 years, Hopefully longer really. But V4 had 6 years of love, and still is getting attention. So some people are being childish and illogical. (had to say it twice)

EDIT: changed “others” to “some others” for clarity

 

 

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Posted: 04 October 2012 11:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 370 ]
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...KageRyu, thank you.

This originally was a thread about why people were considering leaving Daz.

Yes Daz is heading in a different direction. Unfortunately for some of us the “fare” to stay on board the bus is seen as being a bit steep and the route it is heading in one we may no longer want to travel.

I don’t think I have broken even this year with the cost of my Annual PC membership, especially since the changes in May.  The galleries, (which were one source for many to acquire content) are gone.  Vouchers which were good on all but 1.99$ items have been replaced with “all or nothing” coupons limited only to purchases of Daz Originals (most new releases of which are useless if one doesn’t work with Genesis). This is just one part of why many of us (some long time members like sunfirexed above) feel a bit left out by the change in direction and are considering letting our PC memberships expire.

Personally I couldn’t care less if Genesis was made to work in Studio1.7 (the first version I DL’d and still have backed up) Poser4 or even SketchUp.  I have an extensive investment in Gen4 versions of Vicky, Michael, and Steph as well as David3, Aiko3, the original Sadie, Sam, Mavka and a few standalone characters like Little One and Telka. This represents a fairly sizable outlay (on very limited budget) over the last four and a half years since I became involved in this.  I’m not in the position to start from “square one” all over again with Genesis.

Yeah the Gen 4 figures don’t bend as well or cannot be mixed together with everything from a toon to a monster character, I am well aware of that. However I know their capabilities and try to work around their limitations the best I can.  I have been turning more to Poser Pro2010 as it is more reliable than S3A and offers rendering options that work better with my system’s limited memory and processing resources.

Studio4.5 Pro may be the best thing since sliced bread on rig that can handle it’s optimal system requirements.  On mine with an integrated graphics chipset and a maximum of 2GB of memory allocated to any single application that barely meets the minimum OGL requirement, it is a total dog and therefore not a viable “replacement” for 3.1.2.32.

Shoot, I still have 2.3.3 installed and have rolled back to it on several occasions when 3A failed me. I’ve learned a number of tricks from members on these forums to reduce the memory load as much as possible.  However when one runs up against a bug in the software, there isn’t much more that can be done.  3.1.2.32 still has bugs that were never attended to. On some systems they may have little to no impact, while on others (even with similar specs) they can be crippling.  Just the nature of the “beast” I guess.

Granted, my initial disdain for Genesis stemmed from the fact it dominated new releases in the store.  There were a number of nice items I would have considered buying if they were available for Gen4. I even passed on weekly freebies that were “Genesis” related as for my purposes, they were useless and only would have taken up valuable HD space.

Yes, admittedly I have seen some incredible things done with Genesis. However, I’ve also seen wonderful things done with Gen4 ,Gen3, and even the original Poser Woman (AKA “Posette”).  Genesis and Studio4.5Pro may very well be the “future”, just not one I feel fits in with my budget or needs.

...getting ready to pull the signal cord as my ticket expires “soon”.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 03:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 371 ]
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tsarist - 04 October 2012 08:16 PM

Kludge,
I have to disagree with you here.

No problem.  I don’t expect everyone to agree with me.  That’s why I use The Igor and Luigi Personal Re-education Services. LOL

Comparing DAZ’s models to Miki, GND, and the other Poser figures is like comparing Coca Cola to Jarritos Cola.

Since I’m not familiar with the latter, I’m going to assume it’s not all that wonderful.  OTOH, I like Pepsi so neither is favored.  Isn’t choice wonderful?

Anyway, there was no mention of quality.  They exist for Poser users where they don’t work in Studio all that well if at all.  OTOH, DAZ has one character - ONE character - created to use a single mesh for everything via DS 4.x and elements of the non-Studio world want to pick up their marbles and go home.  That is being childish.  As far as I’m concerned, they should go. 

DAZ is the GOLD standard of characters. I know Poser users who never use Miki or any of those Poser figures. More stuff is released monthly for Vicky 4 than has ever been released for Miki.  DAZ makes the characters most people like to use.

And this is why my Miki 2 has to go around naked all the time. wink

You’re right about V4.  Customer demand is a guarantee that she will continue to be supported.  If it were to end, there would be riots and pitchforks and torches and dogs would hiss & cats would bark.  It wouldn’t be a pretty sight.  I have several of I13s packages plus Poserworks’ NGM and NBM which make Our Girl even better.  A3 is, I believe, much the same.  From what I can see she is also a much beloved character, almost but not quite to the level of V4. 

But the subject is Genesis, not V4.  Genesis was created to work with DS4.x, not the previous versions nor Poser.  It is a branch from the normal characters et al but the software that supports it also supports Gen3 & Gen4 characters.  No one has to use Genesis even with the new versions of Studio.  OTOH, Genesis has a lot of characteristics that make it a pretty cool toy to play with, especially with GenX and the Gen3 & Gen4 thingies.  But, much as I like Genesis’ potential, I also keep earlier versions of Studio loaded and have the Gen2, -3 and -4 characters on hand.  I’ll commit when I’m comfortable with Genesis and not before.

Which reminds me, one of the things I haven’t tried is loading the characters that came with Poser 7 (which include those from earlier generations) into some version of Studio.  That should be entertaining.

Today I was working with a scene that had elements from Gen1 to Gen4 and they all played together nicely. Genesis changed all that.

No, it didn’t.  Don’t use Genesis.  Simple as that.  There is no requirement that anyone use any character, much the less a new one that doesn’t work well in other software. 

Recently, a freebie was released that could only be used in DS4. The freebie was a prop, so it just as well could have been made for Poser and Daz.

Could you refresh my memory on this because it’s not ringing any bells.

People aren’t being freakishly childish. They are being incredibly logical. Vicky isn’t just another figure.  She is THE figure.

No argument with the last sentence.  But their problem isn’t with Vickie, it’s with Genesis.  Since Genesis doesn’t yet work well with other software, they want to quit.  That is being freakishly childish.

For the record, my main tool is Carrara7Pro, which can’t use Genesis. C8.5 destroys people’s runtime and since I do this professionally, I can’t afford to have mine wiped out. So, no Genesis for me.

This is cool.  Since C8.5 is still in Beta, the problems you’re having will probably be addressed at some point.  You did put in a bug report, right?  The most recent version I have is C6.1P which isn’t loaded.  I’ve heard that version had issues so it may sit idle for quite a while.

I also use DS2.3 (I have DS3A and DS4A). I do have Poser 7, but it is no longer installed.

My lineup is DS2.3, DS3A and DS4.5P (4.5.0.114) with the new Beta downloaded and ready to load.  I also have Poser 7 and plan to get PP2010 someday.  Not yet loaded are C6.1P, B7P and Hex 2.5 (or whatever the latest version is.)  DS3A and the Gen4 characters seem to be about the best overall match.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 06:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 372 ]
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8.5 does nothing to your runtimes, doesn’t effect them at all. The first release of C8.5 screwed up your runtime list in the browser in carrara 8.1, but didn’t effect your runtimes.  That has since been fixed.

If you want to use genesis in carrara but not have studio; a mistake at this point, just install studio with content, run once, uninstall studio; I’d also recommend uninstalling CMS but that is just me. Don’t need it, don’t want it, don’t trust it in that order.

I say a mistake because carrara still can’t use genesis the way studio does so it is best to set up you character in studio then save out as a duf to carrara. I’m still having issues with the eyes though. Not filing a bug report because there is no reason for ME to file a report.

Here is a great example of my experience with DAZ. Six weeks ago it was posted that the next build of C8.5 beta would be out in a few days, still waiting. And this is just SOP for DAZ.

I’m in a mood so could go on a rip about how DAZ has ruined this for me as a hobby; there is no fun in frustration. But the forum; over the coarse of a year or so, has pretty well turned in to a DAZ appreciation society. But that is to be expected, by now the majority of the people still here are Dazzers; big DAZ fans, because everyone else has left.

Me? I’m still hoping DAZ will eventually get it right. I may be a pessimist but I still HOPE for the best.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 373 ]
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ManStan - 05 October 2012 06:59 AM

But the forum; over the coarse of a year or so, has pretty well turned in to a DAZ appreciation society.

I don’t see it that way. These forums have people with a variety of views on things, and many are not appreciative at all. Honestly I think there are fewer people in the appreciation club than not.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 374 ]
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Kyoto Kid - 04 October 2012 11:24 PM

I don’t think I have broken even this year with the cost of my Annual PC membership, especially since the changes in May.  The galleries, (which were one source for many to acquire content) are gone.  Vouchers which were good on all but 1.99$ items have been replaced with “all or nothing” coupons limited only to purchases of Daz Originals (most new releases of which are useless if one doesn’t work with Genesis). This is just one part of why many of us (some long time members like sunfirexed above) feel a bit left out by the change in direction and are considering letting our PC memberships expire.


Yeah, PC is for Genesis, now, as Rendo Prime is for Gen 4. And the more you spend, the better they get.

Although I’ve had to become a small spender, I was getting enough value, as a Genesis user.

The coupons suck, I haven’t used one yet. (Coupons aren’t their fault, but they’re not mine either)..

Now that they’ve gutted Oct., I think I’ll let it lapse, for several months, or until my finances balance out better.

It’s more important for me to get a new computer.

This represents a fairly sizable outlay (on very limited budget) over the last four and a half years since I became involved in this.  I’m not in the position to start from “square one” all over again with Genesis.


As another small spender, I didn’t put much moola into Genesis.

Just GenX, the Gen3 addon, and some shapes. I prefer to have native Genesis content, but it’s optional. (I bought a little)


Just saying, for people who can, and want to, it’s easy to be thrifty when adding Genesis, especially with a ton of old content.

Old figures (including unique toon figures***) still work, so all I’ve done is gain a figure.

...getting ready to pull the signal cord as my ticket expires “soon”.


I think I’m getting off the PC train, myself, for… however long…

I’m still going to hang around, hope to still see you.


***Unless there’s Geometery switching, I only own some of them. DS4 still gets bugs, with that, in some versions.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 375 ]
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Kendall Sears - 04 October 2012 05:28 PM

I have to disagree with this last point.  ANY change would result in a version increment.  Whether that is a “point” increment or a “number” increment is immaterial.  The fixes were made.  In addition other things were done.  Eventually the number and scope of the changes justified a new “release.”

Regardless, there are too many people with chips on their shoulders.  I’ve read way too many posts from folks who obviously are looking for any reason whatsoever to create a stink…  Whether the reason is true or not.

Kendall

You can disagree all you want, but it does not change the fact that a version change is not an update for bugs in a current version.  This is emphasized even more when the version change does not address those bugs specificly, but further introduces a slew of new bugs, as well as breaking features that previously worked (many of which are still broken in 4.5) and breaking compatibility with plugins, many of which have not, and never will be updated for the new version for a variety of reasons.  The thing is, the fixes were not made with the upgrade to 4.0, and it is not the solution especially for those who cannot use it - which is why so many were upset and continue to be upset that promised patches were never made.

Whether it is a “point” or “numerical” increment is not imaterial when the “numerical” increment completely alters the codebase, is even more unstable, not executable on the same machines that ran the previous version, etc…  and as I already said all of this was already brought up before and met with the same types of responses from overly enthusiastic proponents of DS4.

The majority of people I see with chips on their shoulder or trying to create a stink are those who label any critique as Daz bashing, or respond with DS4 being the fix when it is not.

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