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Posted: 25 September 2012 07:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 301 ]
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ManStan - 25 September 2012 05:52 AM

Genesis is a figure, DS4 is a system. The reason genesis doesn’t work in poser is because poser doesn’t have the system for handling the genesis figure. Genesis in and of it’s self is simply a weight mapped figure. Nothing more.

You’re doing this just to upset people aren’t you? Blondie and Richard just explained, Rather well I might add, about Genesis, DS4 and poser and how they work and why Genesis won’t work in Poser. I am pretty much a layman when it comes to what they know but they explained it well enough so that even I understood it, what are you not catching? Either you did not read what they wrote or you are ignoring them just to stir things up.

I am a Poser user and I wasn’t happy when I found out that I wouldn’t be able to play with the nice shiny new toy that all the DS user got to, but I didn’t get upset, I went and bought a copy of DS4A about a month before it was free. This post started out with a hint that Genesis might be coming to Poser. If it does that will be awesome, If not I have V4 in Poser with all the cool joint fixes that are available on the market and I will continue to use her.

I would like to see at least one thread concerning Genesis and Poser stick around instead of it getting locked and having to start all over again.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 302 ]
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ssgbryan - 25 September 2012 01:59 AM
T Jaiman - 24 September 2012 01:32 PM
ssgbryan - 24 September 2012 01:14 PM
T Jaiman - 24 September 2012 12:12 PM

Also, older weight-mapping that was available in Poser, and Carrara, wasn’t as advanced as TriAx, and the latest Poser.

Earlier versions of Poser didn’t have weight-mapping.

Thanks for the (unquoted) answers, ssgbryan.

I was thinking about weightmapping that some (person or people) had once said to be available via scripting. IIRC, there was talk about users who did, or hypothetically could have used it. I figured someone might bring it up, so I was trying to cover the bases. Didn’t occur to me how it would probably be read, heh.

Edit: Oh crap! I forgot. I didn’t miss the intro sale of Miki4. But the Tyler info link now goes to featured content.

Miki4 & Tyler are now available - Free until 1 Oct for owners of Poser9/2012. Must have SR3 installed.

Just grabbed my copy of them as well! Thanks for the info.

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“When wrongs are pressed because it is believed they will be borne, resistance becomes morality.”  “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”  “Most bad government has grown out of too much government.” —Thomas Jefferson.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 303 ]
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shadowhawk1 - 25 September 2012 07:01 AM

I would like to see at least one thread concerning Genesis and Poser stick around instead of it getting locked and having to start all over again.

I second that. And it always seems to get very informative, before the lock.


So folks should stay mindful not to get personal, when disagreeing. (Just saying, for no particular reason).
oh oh

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Posted: 25 September 2012 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 304 ]
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shadowhawk1 - 25 September 2012 07:02 AM

Just grabbed my copy of them as well! Thanks for the info.

I tried to be sneaky and get them with my Poser Debut Serial, it didn’t work. oh oh

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prixat

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 305 ]
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prixat - 25 September 2012 08:35 AM
shadowhawk1 - 25 September 2012 07:02 AM

Just grabbed my copy of them as well! Thanks for the info.

I tried to be sneaky and get them with my Poser Debut Serial, it didn’t work. 8-/

You wouldn’t have been able to use them.  Poser Debut is based on the Poser 8 codebase - no weight-mapping.  Gotta have Poser 9/2012.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 306 ]
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shadowhawk1 - 25 September 2012 07:01 AM

Blondie and Richard just explained, Rather well I might add, about Genesis, DS4 and poser and how they work and why Genesis won’t work in Poser. I am pretty much a layman when it comes to what they know but they explained it well enough so that even I understood it, what are you not catching?

Hi Shadowhawk,

To shed a small amount of light on the situation, Blondie & Richard explained, quite well, the current narrative from our DAZ3d, which might by summarized as “Genesis is a system that is somewhat inseparable from the features in DS4 and later.”  There was however, a narrative *before* this one when DS4 was first launched that there would be a CR2 exporter which would support a workflow along the lines of “Open up DS4, Dial-up Anubis, Export, Use Anubis.”  DAZ somewhat grumpily abandoned this earlier narrative last falls on the grounds that the Smith Micro team did not implement features they were expecting.  The new narrative of the inseparability of Genesis and DazStudio has evolved after that time.

So Poser users have been confronted by two narratives from DAZ:

  1) Genesis is a multiplatform offering.  Indeed some of the original hype around Genesis would be it was designed be use in other systems beyond DAZ Studio.  Dan Farr (DAZ Founder) mentioned several times in public forums that DAZ was working with other system makers to bring Genesis to those platforms.  To date, DS4 and later is the sole platform for Genesis.

  2) Genesis is inseparable from the DAZ Studio platform; this is largely due to the advanced technical requirements of the platform (subdivision, smoothng modifier, weightmaps, etc.)  Some of these represent greater barriers than others to implementing Genesis in a 3rd party system.

These two positions are somewhat incompatible, and the change in narrative induces some skepticism on the part Poser users. The dropped hints about poser users being in heaven suggest that a technical solution may be in the works.  I think some of us are waiting for DAZ to state clearly their position for the future.

-K

(The quote in terms of using Genesis in Poser is from August 2011 where DAZ_Rand wrote on DAZ’s forums; “We have also done ‘Our Part’ by having a CR2 exporter that will be free to everyone. This will allow limited “Baked” Genesis forms in Poser… so dial up Anubis, export, open in poser… use Anubis.”)

 

 

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 307 ]
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Kerwin - 25 September 2012 10:31 AM

. . . using Genesis in Poser is from August 2011 where DAZ_Rand wrote on DAZ’s forums . . .

Which reminds me (not to derail, but), what happened to DAZ_Rand?  I don’t think he’s posted in months, but it’s hard to tell because his profile won’t come up.  oh oh

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Posted: 25 September 2012 11:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 308 ]
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KickAir 8P - 25 September 2012 10:56 AM
Kerwin - 25 September 2012 10:31 AM

. . . using Genesis in Poser is from August 2011 where DAZ_Rand wrote on DAZ’s forums . . .

Which reminds me (not to derail, but), what happened to DAZ_Rand?  I don’t think he’s posted in months,


I was wondering about that, too.

KickAir 8P - 25 September 2012 10:56 AM

but it’s hard to tell because his profile won’t come up.  oh oh


Makes you wonder if he quit the place, and asked to have his profile removed. I would’ve bugged out, long ago, if I’d had all those slings and arrows aimed at me. Folks would go out of their way to misinterpret him and to take offense***. (Tho’ he did have some of that ol’ Daz ambiguosity, from time to time - I once misinterpreted him… [missing blush emoticon here]).

Come to think of it, did he ever show up at the new forum at all? Maybe he just took the opportunity to put this behind him.

(And would you have wanted to deal with all the $___ flying around here when the new forum sputtered online, and the Store was a wreck? Given that he was the one people picked on).


Or perhaps he got busier with other things.

*** It was a little rough here. But it was fierce over at Rendo.

Say, what was his handle over at Rendo’s forums? I forget

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Posted: 25 September 2012 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 309 ]
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Thanks Blondie!


I really appreciate you taking time to explain the whole situation. Your explanation was clear and hopefully a lot of us now have a better understanding about what the deal is.

cool smile

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Posted: 25 September 2012 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 310 ]
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What I’ll be saying is how I understood the various statements. Subject to correction from those more knowledgeble.:


I’m in a hurry, so if I sound abrupt, it’s not due to any ill intent.

There’s no tone in my thoughts. Think “Spock” (or Spock’s dimwitted cousin, if you will).

Kerwin - 25 September 2012 10:31 AM

[snippage]
when DS4 was first launched that there would be a CR2 exporter which would support a workflow along the lines of “Open up DS4, Dial-up Anubis, Export, Use Anubis.”

They’ve always talked about plugins - which would have to be written by the target app’s people, or based on .an SDK.

Studio, at the launch of Genesis, and for months after, was an unqualified mess, so nobody wrote the plugins, and SM quit working on it.

Studio’s Beta designation was dropped entirely too early (causing harm to their reputation).


Edit: Though if SM had made all of the necessary changes, perhaps only an exporter would be needed. I don’t recall anything about that, but it would fit.
Can anyone clear that up for me?


Note: if it’s a matter of SDK, then the plugin would have to wait for Daz to find sufficient spare developer-hours.

In my estimation virtually all of the previous mess has been removed from Studio.

So there is a strong possibility of those spare developer-hours being available for plugins.

However, we consumers only have hints, at this point…

DAZ somewhat grumpily abandoned this earlier narrative last falls on the grounds that the Smith Micro team did not implement features they were expecting.

SM did work with Daz, as far as developing a compatible weightmapping system. Sometime after that, SM called off the collaboration.

Most folks here could give a link to an SM-Poser big-wig who said so, explicitly.

My recollection is of a Daz developer expressing disappointment and bewilderment, I don’t recall grumpyness, except for my own.

The new narrative of the inseparability of Genesis and DazStudio has evolved after that time.

Genesis is inseparable from many functions contained in Studio. A plugin would have to provide any which weren’t in the target app.

Emphasis mine:

blondie9999 - 24 September 2012 02:26 AM

The real power of Genesis lies not in the figure itself, but in the functions and features of DS 4—particularly subdivision, weight-mapping, scaling, and UV swapping. 

[snip]

So—Genesis, by itself, is just another figure.  However, thanks to the features and functions of DS 4, Genesis is far more versatile than the previous Poser-based figures ever were.

Emphasis was added to quote, above.


DS4 isn’t magic, it’s programming. And Daz dev’s would undoubtedly work with,e.g, Maya, as they did with SM.

So Poser users have been confronted by two narratives from DAZ:

  1) Genesis is a multiplatform offering.  Indeed some of the original hype around Genesis would be it was designed be use in other systems beyond DAZ Studio.  Dan Farr (DAZ Founder) mentioned several times in public forums that DAZ was working with other system makers to bring Genesis to those platforms.  To date, DS4 and later is the sole platform for Genesis.

  2) Genesis is inseparable from the DAZ Studio platform; this is largely due to the advanced technical requirements of the platform (subdivision, smoothng modifier, weightmaps, etc.)  Some of these represent greater barriers than others to implementing Genesis in a 3rd party system.

These two positions are somewhat incompatible, and the change in narrative induces some skepticism on the part Poser users. The dropped hints about poser users being in heaven suggest that a technical solution may be in the works.  I think some of us are waiting for DAZ to state clearly their position for the future.

The positions are incompatible when they are oversimplified. People oversimplify in almost every circumstance, but it’s ok, because they are speaking in context. The problem is when the listener oversimplifies (a universal human weakness, which we all succumb to from time to time). Listener oversimplification is nigh-inevitable if they aren’t aware of the full relevant context. It’s extremely common for a listener to grow weary of a long explanation and read hastily, or fail to absorb/retain various details and/or qualifiers in the statement. (Nothing personal).

The 2 narratives are actually one, stated in oversimplified manner, according to 2 sets of circumstance.

(The quote in terms of using Genesis in Poser is from August 2011 where DAZ_Rand wrote on DAZ’s forums; “We have also done ‘Our Part’ by having a CR2 exporter that will be free to everyone. This will allow limited “Baked” Genesis forms in Poser… so dial up Anubis, export, open in poser… use Anubis.”)

Spin. That’s one of his skills, and a major part of his job.

But his meaning was clear in the larger context.

They did as much of their job, as they could, under the circumstances. More functionality would require more participation on SM’s part.


Now, with Poser’ SR3 plugin system, there is the distinct possibility of Daz doing more.


That SR3 plugin system is what I understand to be what has already brought/bringing Reality for Poser, Animate2 for Poser, and I think another once-exclusive-to-Daz plugin…

But Genesis can’t be as quick, as those, simply because so many functions have to be exported.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 09:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 311 ]
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Kerwin - 25 September 2012 10:31 AM
shadowhawk1 - 25 September 2012 07:01 AM

Blondie and Richard just explained, Rather well I might add, about Genesis, DS4 and poser and how they work and why Genesis won’t work in Poser. I am pretty much a layman when it comes to what they know but they explained it well enough so that even I understood it, what are you not catching?

Hi Shadowhawk,

To shed a small amount of light on the situation, Blondie & Richard explained, quite well, the current narrative from our DAZ3d, which might by summarized as “Genesis is a system that is somewhat inseparable from the features in DS4 and later.”  There was however, a narrative *before* this one when DS4 was first launched that there would be a CR2 exporter which would support a workflow along the lines of “Open up DS4, Dial-up Anubis, Export, Use Anubis.”  DAZ somewhat grumpily abandoned this earlier narrative last falls on the grounds that the Smith Micro team did not implement features they were expecting.  The new narrative of the inseparability of Genesis and DazStudio has evolved after that time.

So Poser users have been confronted by two narratives from DAZ:

  1) Genesis is a multiplatform offering.  Indeed some of the original hype around Genesis would be it was designed be use in other systems beyond DAZ Studio.  Dan Farr (DAZ Founder) mentioned several times in public forums that DAZ was working with other system makers to bring Genesis to those platforms.  To date, DS4 and later is the sole platform for Genesis.

  2) Genesis is inseparable from the DAZ Studio platform; this is largely due to the advanced technical requirements of the platform (subdivision, smoothng modifier, weightmaps, etc.)  Some of these represent greater barriers than others to implementing Genesis in a 3rd party system.

These two positions are somewhat incompatible, and the change in narrative induces some skepticism on the part Poser users. The dropped hints about poser users being in heaven suggest that a technical solution may be in the works.  I think some of us are waiting for DAZ to state clearly their position for the future.

-K

(The quote in terms of using Genesis in Poser is from August 2011 where DAZ_Rand wrote on DAZ’s forums; “We have also done ‘Our Part’ by having a CR2 exporter that will be free to everyone. This will allow limited “Baked” Genesis forms in Poser… so dial up Anubis, export, open in poser… use Anubis.”)

 

Hey Kerwin,
Thanks for the explanation, I pretty much got all of that as I have been following the whole issue about Genesis and will it or won’t it ever be ready for Poser thing. My issue was with a certain statement that I felt was done on purpose simply to throw fire on an already heated topic. I have seen to many of these threads get locked because someone refuses to budge from their perch no matter what, it would be nice if just once we could have one go for awhile where someone wouldn’t ruin it buy pushing everyone to the breaking point.

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Posted: 27 September 2012 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 312 ]
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shadowhawk1 what blondie9999 say here “So—Genesis, by itself, is just another figure.  However, thanks to the features and functions of DS 4, Genesis is far more versatile than the previous Poser-based figures ever were.”

Is the same thing I am saying here “Genesis is a figure, DS4 is a system. The reason genesis doesn’t work in poser is because poser doesn’t have the system for handling the genesis figure. Genesis in and of it’s self is simply a weight mapped figure. Nothing more.”

So how is that disagreeing with her?

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Posted: 27 September 2012 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 313 ]
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ManStan - 27 September 2012 06:29 AM

shadowhawk1 what blondie9999 say here “So—Genesis, by itself, is just another figure.  However, thanks to the features and functions of DS 4, Genesis is far more versatile than the previous Poser-based figures ever were.”

Is the same thing I am saying here “Genesis is a figure, DS4 is a system. The reason genesis doesn’t work in poser is because poser doesn’t have the system for handling the genesis figure. Genesis in and of it’s self is simply a weight mapped figure. Nothing more.”

So how is that disagreeing with her?

Because both of you aren’t on the mark.

Genesis is NOT a figure. It a system for making figures from a single mesh. The various technologies involved in making those figures, such as weightmapping, subdivision, geografting and dynamic morphs, are in support of making that figure look, pose and behave well.

 

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Posted: 27 September 2012 07:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 314 ]
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Be nice if Daz hurry up and tell us what’s supposed to be happening for the poser users before we are bored to death by more arguing about how Genesis the not figure and Ds 4.5 are so awesome while still more users leave the PC and desert daz for rendoDNA

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Posted: 27 September 2012 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 315 ]
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ManStan - 27 September 2012 06:29 AM

shadowhawk1 what blondie9999 say here “So—Genesis, by itself, is just another figure.  However, thanks to the features and functions of DS 4, Genesis is far more versatile than the previous Poser-based figures ever were.”

Is the same thing I am saying here “Genesis is a figure, DS4 is a system. The reason genesis doesn’t work in poser is because poser doesn’t have the system for handling the genesis figure. Genesis in and of it’s self is simply a weight mapped figure. Nothing more.”

So how is that disagreeing with her?

Or put another way, it ain’t Genesis unless the weightmapped figure has the system to make it work. The system could be built-in, or provided by a plugin.

The weightmapped figure is what we play with, but it’s not Genesis by itself.

That figure can be exported, and Poser will use weightmapping, but it no longer does the Genesis-thing.

But, for confusion’s sake, we call it exporting Genesis into Poser, when we’re merely exporting one of it’s characters.[/size]


This issue bores me… [/Roman-emperor-voice] smile

I vote we quit playing this wordgame, so everyone can get on with many other topics of the thread.

By the way… what makes this an issue? Just asking.

Edits: brain farts.

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