Digital Art Zone

Taozen - 23 September 2012 06:11 AM

Male-M3dia - 22 September 2012 10:05 AM

DAZ provides content, and that’s where their emphasis has been.

Which makes it hard for me to understand why they give away the whole DS4 Pro package including the content creation tools so people can create their own content. And with Genesis even much easier than before.

 

Because they’re making their money off the add on content. Models are like games. To keep existing customers and entice new customers they must be upgraded to keep up with technology and to keep a grasp on the market.

There’s that.

Taozen - 23 September 2012 06:11 AM

Male-M3dia - 22 September 2012 10:05 AM

DAZ provides content, and that’s where their emphasis has been.

Which makes it hard for me to understand why they give away the whole DS4 Pro package including the content creation tools so people can create their own content. And with Genesis even much easier than before.

Top 2 reasons, IMO:

Freebie makers - freebies are important to a character’s acceptance.

Vendors - those who wouldn’t spend a dime on DS, would automatically download the full set of tools, just in case. And most vendors got that way from a love of playing with new tools.

Here’s a more complete version of my second-guessing. I’d just paste it, but that might possibly be against their definition of spam.

Trying to get the place presentable for a visitor who’s coming this morning, or I’d adapt it.

OK, I see your points.

SM hasn’t got weary of Genesis according to the latest news though, as far as I understand?

Taozen - 23 September 2012 08:33 AM

OK, I see your points.

SM hasn’t got weary of Genesis according to the latest news though, as far as I understand?

Yeah, if our speculation is right about SM’s participation. (Sorry I harp on that, but it would be a Daz move to let us build our expectations. And thread-read stats prove that a lot more people read than reply).

Genesis is successful, now. Back then, It could be perceived that Genesis acceptance might be leveling off.

Now Autofit preserves morphs, DS4.5 is remarkably stable, Pro has been free for a ridiculously long time, and the community has much of the CCT tutorial-ed. (I’m sure I’m overlooking other points of improvement).

Also, the TPTB of the Poser division, didn’t seem to take weight-mapping seriously prior to Daz’s overtures. It’s easy to imagine, that In their meetings, a skeptical faction got tired of wasting their developers’ time (salary).

Not to be underestimated is the MBA belief system… back then, Daz was suddenly seen as a more dangerous competitor for the software - the kind that expects to make a profit.

And to reinforce that point - it was a dickish move for Daz to presell a beta, at the same time Poser was doing its own presale. (The kind of thing a stereotypical*** MBA loves to do, and reacts to with aggressive dickishness). ***One who has absolute faith in the teachings of the MBA courses. No offense to MBAs, but call me a skeptic, and, no, BTW: I’m not one.

Lastly, Studio and Daz broke out of it’s role. Poser was the innovative premium. Studio was merely equivalent to, or a step behind Poser on most major features. (plugins, et. al. notwithstanding). Daz had been primarily a content-maker, which didn’t threaten them. That hurt their pride, as well as scare them. That isn’t scary anymore, since there is a large base of hard-core Poser users.

Afterthought - I suspect that they’ve been hearing directly from more users than most folks guess. Many forum-posting Poser fans would naturally fear being criticized by their friends if they publicly admitted they like Genesis.

I’ve seen that happen with many other fandoms. Only folks who feel secure in their forum status, or who can shrug off critisism, or can respond to it eloquently, will talk about liking the other fan-thing.


Acronym key for acronym-haters: BTW=by the way, TPTB=the powers that be.

Taozen - 23 September 2012 06:11 AM

Male-M3dia - 22 September 2012 10:05 AM

DAZ provides content, and that’s where their emphasis has been.

Which makes it hard for me to understand why they give away the whole DS4 Pro package including the content creation tools so people can create their own content. And with Genesis even much easier than before.

 

Because they didn’t sell enough copies of the CCT to kickstart the ecosystem when they were charging for it.  There was very little content for genesis until DAZ gave away DS4P.  From the release of DS4 to the start of March Madness, there were only 300 items released for genesis - that is everything characters, clothing, bundles, everything.

ssgbryan - 23 September 2012 10:31 AM

Taozen - 23 September 2012 06:11 AM

Male-M3dia - 22 September 2012 10:05 AM

DAZ provides content, and that’s where their emphasis has been.

Which makes it hard for me to understand why they give away the whole DS4 Pro package including the content creation tools so people can create their own content. And with Genesis even much easier than before.

 

Because they didn’t sell enough copies of the CCT to kickstart the ecosystem when they were charging for it.  There was very little content for genesis until DAZ gave away DS4P.  From the release of DS4 to the start of March Madness, there were only 300 items released for genesis - that is everything characters, clothing, bundles, everything.

1) Still far more than other new character released.

2) And now there’s plenty of content now that we have monthly threads about not having clothes for gen4 characters.

LOL, or perhaps just a blanket warning.
Edit: yup, somebody’s getting a “This topic does not exist” from their email link.


Changing the subject (or should I go for post count?)...

I have a lot of sympathy for those un-Genesis folk who currently feel stuck in the PC or are just biding their time until October (Members Choice).

I’d be a bit perturbed, right now. It has now-truthfully become a Gen4 desert for new PC & DO. You see the occasional succulent, or bit of brush…

T Jaiman - 23 September 2012 08:58 AM

Taozen - 23 September 2012 08:33 AM

OK, I see your points.

SM hasn’t got weary of Genesis according to the latest news though, as far as I understand?

Yeah, if our speculation is right about SM’s participation. (Sorry I harp on that, but it would be a Daz move to let us build our expectations. And thread-read stats prove that a lot more people read than reply).

I wish companies would realize that eventually they only shoot themselves in the foot by using all those dubious business tactics (not saying that DAZ is in this case, but anyway).

Lastly, Studio and Daz broke out of it’s role. Poser was the innovative premium. Studio was merely equivalent to, or a step behind Poser on most major features. (plugins, et. al. notwithstanding). Daz had been primarily a content-maker, which didn’t threaten them. That hurt their pride, as well as scare them. That isn’t scary anymore, since there is a large base of hard-core Poser users.

I mainly use Poser too - mostly because I started out with it and because (maybe because I’m used to Poser) I find DS a bit confusing to work with. I’d really like to use DS more, not least because of Genesis, but I’ve been hearing about so many problems with 4.5 that I’ve been continually postponing installing it. Finally got myself together to do a test install of 4.5 / 64 today though which so far seems to work allright, so lets see how it turns out.

Afterthought - I suspect that they’ve been hearing directly from more users than most folks guess. Many forum-posting Poser fans would naturally fear being criticized by their friends if they publicly admitted they like Genesis.

Well that’s the downside of being a fan(atic). 

Male-M3dia - 23 September 2012 10:45 AM

2) And now there’s plenty of content now that we have monthly threads about not having clothes for gen4 characters.

Time to start using all the stuff you’ve bought but haven’t used yet then…

Well…it’s been a while since I have been here at DAZ 3D. I waited and waited for the “new look” to the Forums, but as I see my waiting was in vain. I am no longer going to wait and hope for a better look, an inviting look to the forums. I am very disappointed in DAZ 3Ds’ Web Guys. For this, I respectfully resign from the 3D experience. I wanted to delete my account, but there is no “Delete” button. All I could do was remove my CC info.

CD_2012 - 23 September 2012 12:55 PM

Well…it’s been a while since I have been here at DAZ 3D. I waited and waited for the “new look” to the Forums, but as I see my waiting was in vain. I am no longer going to wait and hope for a better look, an inviting look to the forums. I am very disappointed in DAZ 3Ds’ Web Guys. For this, I respectfully resign from the 3D experience. I wanted to delete my account, but there is no “Delete” button. All I could do was remove my CC info.

Hey CD2012

Hate to see you go. You’re one of our old timers. Yeah, the site and the forum sucks, but hang in there. Maybe they will get this monstrosity fixed sooner rather than later.

CD_2012 - 23 September 2012 12:55 PM

Well…it’s been a while since I have been here at DAZ 3D. I waited and waited for the “new look” to the Forums, but as I see my waiting was in vain. I am no longer going to wait and hope for a better look, an inviting look to the forums. I am very disappointed in DAZ 3Ds’ Web Guys. For this, I respectfully resign from the 3D experience. I wanted to delete my account, but there is no “Delete” button. All I could do was remove my CC info.

Hey, come on, CD. Yeah, they had delusions of grandeur and visions of splendor, but that’s Daz. They did eventually bring the forums up to minimal standards. The store is still kinda rugged… And they’re still making some astonishingly slow progress.

I’m breaking the rules by saying this, but I’ll miss ya, man.

Holy crap! There was just an on-topic post in this thread!

If you ask me, the worst thing is not what has happened to DAZ and how they’ve handled it, but the negative way many people have reacted to it. If you can’t deal with a thing like this in a constructive way, I wonder how you can handle real life…

Taozen - 23 September 2012 02:20 PM

If you ask me, the worst thing is not what has happened to DAZ and how they’ve handled it, but the negative way many people have reacted to it. If you can’t deal with a thing like this in a constructive way, I wonder how you can handle real life…

 

Totally Zen.  This.  Too true.  100% agree.

So much angst, anger, and negativity for what is, for most folks, a hobby.

Kendall

Taozen - 23 September 2012 12:00 PM

T Jaiman - 23 September 2012 08:58 AM

Yeah, if our speculation is right about SM’s participation. (Sorry I harp on that, but it would be a Daz move to let us build our expectations. And thread-read stats prove that a lot more people read than reply).

I wish companies would realize that eventually they only shoot themselves in the foot by using all those dubious business tactics (not saying that DAZ is in this case, but anyway).

Yeah, there’s all manner of by-the-book stuff that backfires on companies, even routinely…

Yeah, this one, (if it’s like ‘game changing’), I’ve mentally filed their adherence to the tease-and-run policy, into the category of “Ok, now they’re just being dense.”. (Perhaps some might see me as being dense, there, I dunno). (Apologies for the brutally clumsy structure of the first sentence). They’re likely to let this piece of speculation run rampant, so If they announce something completely different, the backlash will be… pretty fierce.

I mainly use Poser too - mostly because I started out with it and because (maybe because I’m used to Poser) I find DS a bit confusing to work with.

I’ve had various pieces of software feel intuitively obvious to me, and the competitors’ all spectacularly baffling.

But, for these two, it’s mainly been the content management that frustrates me. (DS4 content seems more bearable,now. It’s shape management that gets me spun out, now).

I do find myself in Studio most often, partly because I hang out in the forum, and casually pick up a ton of info here. And it was the first, the free thing sucked me in, and… (I wanted to see if I could get a decent result out of it, before I laid down a pile of cash… I’d seen a lot of pathetic renders out there beyond forum walls).

I’d really like to use DS more, not least because of Genesis, but I’ve been hearing about so many problems with 4.5 that I’ve been continually postponing installing it. Finally got myself together to do a test install of 4.5 / 64 today though which so far seems to work allright, so lets see how it turns out.

Cool. Should be fine. Caution is reasonable, it uninstalls the previous version… if I hadn’t had so many drives go downhill, I’d go back to dual boot drives, but, I’ve got Acronis, so…

When I look at a new bit of software, I always shoot over to the forums, to see what I should prepare for, and I’m soon drawn to the bug reports. But as long the forumites treat ‘most everyone’s bug as unusual, and try to solve it, then I eventually quit angst-ing and go find out.

Afterthought - I suspect that they’ve been hearing directly from more users than most folks guess. Many forum-posting Poser fans would naturally fear being criticized by their friends if they publicly admitted they like Genesis.

Well that’s the downside of being a fan(atic). 

Starts humming the chorus to Subdivisions.

Man, that is not a humming tune *cough*.