Digital Art Zone

What has dismayed me the most about the whole Daz Studio 4 and Genesis era is the REness of it all.  Re, as in rebuy, relearn, reinstall, refit. 

Instead of becoming more fun, it has become more demanding, and more confusing.

I already have the generation 3 and 4 figures, but now I’m suppose to rebuy them for Genesis.

I already had a ton of body morphs.

I have a lot of clothing for these figures that I really love, and now I have to try to refit them for Genesis.

I have character skin textures that I’m attached to, and now I have to somehow replace or refit them for Genesis.

It took me a long time to learn to be good using Poser, but now I’m suppose to just dump it and use DAZ Studio 4.

I invested a lot of time and money and creative effort on the preGenesis figures. 

Other than the improved bending capabilities of Genesis, I really can’t say that any of the characters or clothes or skin textures that have been newly created for Genesis are any better than what was being sold for the generation 4 figures. 

I’ve tried and tried to get enthusiastic about the new products, but my experience with Genesis and Studio 4 has been one of frustration.

My visits to the DAZ website have become few and far between.  I hardly visit or participate in the DAZ forums any more.  The amount of money I spend here has dropped about 80-90%.

It’s sad.  I miss the way DAZ used to be.

Zev0 - 19 September 2012 07:15 PM

edited…I will try this out…Never thought of that really. However that requires users to have poser as well.

Phil sells a stand-alone version over at his website:

www.philc.net

I have it constantly running in the background generating .DAT files for clothing.

Cyn Art - 19 September 2012 01:41 PM

???  Really?  Why would my position be any different than the Poser community’s position if I’m unable to use Genesis and would like to? 

But seriously, I’m simply hoping that they’ve come up with a plug-in or free-standing diddie solution.

then I have no choice and my bus stops here, so to speak.    That’s not attitude, just a fact.

yes your stance is different from a poser user because as I said NEW POSER VERSIONS, not old ones.

Regarding a plug-in I think you are missing the point, DS4 was build around genesis, DS3 wasn’t. Ds3 intrinsically can’t handle the new model without being re-written substantially.

If your bus stops here, that’s good and all I’m just saying be realistic about it.

tsarist - 19 September 2012 05:48 PM

Zev0 - 19 September 2012 05:11 PM

Honestly now, this argument is ridiculous. EG If I want to play the latest games with dx11 features I sure as hell know that my old GFX card won’t handle it. So I buy a new one. I don’t complain to the games company telling them to cut down on the graphics advancements just because my poor pc/mac cannot handle it. Daz has made huge improvements in its software and new technology sometimes require you to upgrade your old rig. Yours must be really old if 4.5 cannot run on it. People want the latest features and improvements but expect them to work on 5/6 year old machines? Get with the times. Why should a company hold back advances just because a few have users have outdated machines? 3D requires resources. Jeez a quad core with 6gb ram is dirt cheap.I have that as my secondary machine and 4.5 runs perfectly fine. I just do not understand this logic at all.

Not everyone has money to upgrade.
If you do, that’s beautiful.
If not, don’t begrudge those who can’t.

I never ceased to be amazed at the question “why don’t you just upgrade?” posed at people.
If they could upgrade, do you think anyone would just sit there with an old machine?
If I could afford to upgrade, I would do so every year.
Get the top of the line machine each time.

...thank you.

Fauvist - 19 September 2012 07:30 PM

What has dismayed me the most about the whole Daz Studio 4 and Genesis era is the REness of it all.  Re, as in rebuy, relearn, reinstall, refit. 

Instead of becoming more fun, it has become more demanding, and more confusing.

I already have the generation 3 and 4 figures, but now I’m suppose to rebuy them for Genesis.

I already had a ton of body morphs.

I have a lot of clothing for these figures that I really love, and now I have to try to refit them for Genesis.

I have character skin textures that I’m attached to, and now I have to somehow replace or refit them for Genesis.

It took me a long time to learn to be good using Poser, but now I’m suppose to just dump it and use DAZ Studio 4.

I invested a lot of time and money and creative effort on the preGenesis figures. 

Other than the improved bending capabilities of Genesis, I really can’t say that any of the characters or clothes or skin textures that have been newly created for Genesis are any better than what was being sold for the generation 4 figures.

Why must it be an “either - or” situation?  Whatever gave you the idea that you’re suppose to dump Poser?  Daz does not require anyone to give up using Poser before they’re allowed to use DS4.

You can still continue using all the figures, clothing, textures, and morphs in Poser just like you always have.  And if you like something made for Genesis, you can download DS4 for FREE.  What’s wrong with using both Poser and Daz Studio?  Use Poser for all your pre-Genesis content, and use DS4 for your Genesis content.

I know people who use Photoshop to do postwork after using Poser. There’s nothing wrong with using multiple software.  Get the best of both worlds.

...I don’t really care if Genesis doesn’t work in my S3A or Poser Pro2010.  I have a hefty investment in in Gen4, Aiko3, and several of the “original” toon characters to keep me busy for some time. 

There are excellent third party joint fixes that help make Gen4 bend better (partial to Beautiful Bends as it works on all the V4 unimesh characters, including my beloved Steph4).

Then there are plugins I use regularly, some of which appear that they will not be updated because of “other priorities”.  At least in S3A they all still work for me. 

While the Figure and Shader Mixers may have been busts, Morph Follower works nicely (especially for fitting V4 clothing to Steph4).

XD4 works fine as well (and actually handles footwear and long skirts pretty well).

With properly organised custom built runtimes don’t need no CMS or “Smart Content” to find what I want to use.

Marvelous Designer and Poser Pro2010 let me define my own cloth dynamics.

Poser Pro2010 lets me batch my render processes for running in background saving precious memory (and is “gentler” to my old system).

Then there’s Bryce, which while slow to render, I have always enjoyed working with as it is surprisingly stable (and the 3.1 -> Bryce bridge still works).

...however, one thing I am “concerned” about, is Daz’s move to the .duf format and what this means for the future of content.  Not just characters, hair, or clothing but props and scene sets as well as it apparently is “exclusive” to Studio4.5 (and eventually later versions).

...sounds to me that if one doesn’t “upgrade”, it will be the “end of the road” content-wise.

...oh well, these days some artists still chose to use pencils, pens/ink or brushes/paints.  Guess I’ll have to make due.

...just been reading everything here…

Believe me, my heart goes out to those who can not afford to buy a new computer or new hardware to be compatible. I do understand… I “get it” more than some might think. I am not one of the “wealthy” members of this community. I have watched for many many years as people all around me have bought stuff I just could not afford to buy. Right now, there is a thread going asking people about the size of their order history. Some people with hundreds of pages and thousands of items!! ... I was actually too embarrassed to participate in that thread because my order history is only 35 pages long…lol… and many of those have been Daz Weekly Freebies!

Even though it’s disappointing that I can not afford to participate like I may want to, I still love that enough stuff is free or cheap enough that I can play along at all and I just do the best I can with what I can afford. Even the things I have “purchased” were mostly purchased with Daz vouchers that I had won in contests. I simply do not have a lot of money to be able to play along with everyone…

...but I never expected the company to slow down for me.

I’m kinda glad they did not, actually. Even back then, I found that as everyone was going by in a flash of blinding light, dishing out top dollar for the new Gen 4 stuff I could not afford, I could grab the Gen 3 (especially Aiko 3) stuff from fast grab and get great deals! That stuff was way more economical than the new stuff and I really STILL love Aiko 3, even now… Anyway…

I do have a point… promise.

But first, I want to try to refresh the memories of some and remind them that Daz3D explained to everyone before Genesis and Daz Studio 4 even launched, that the new stuff could not be made to work in the old software… It’s not that they just “did not” make it work in Daz Studio 3 or Poser, but that they could not make it work in the old software. Even *if* Genesis ever gets to work in Poser, it will probably only be possible in the newest version…

I know it’s disheartening when you can not afford an upgrade and can’t keep up with the newest stuff… believe me, I’ve been there, and in many ways, I still am… but I have to admit I am really glad they made the choice they did. I bet it was a tough decision to make, actually… and I can’t help but think what a brave and courageous company they are!

Why am I glad when so many are hurt and upset and unable to participate?

Because I can see the *potential* that is possible by choosing to go in this direction.

Already, I have enjoyed the “morphablity” and flexibility that is only possible with Genesis, and I barely have a library started. Everything from gorilla-fish-frogs to baby-faerie-cats can wear the same clothing, textures and hair…

...and that’s just cool.

Right now, the best, fastest, coolest PRO version of Daz Studio is completely FREE, and I know that isn’t much comfort to those who can’t get into it now, but I can’t help but hope that those who can’t participate “right now” try to see the potential for the future and the future of this hobby. This WILL be the most economical way to build a library… it just will.

I really do hope that Smith Micro and Daz3D can work out some way to get it into Poser for Poser users, but I don’t expect it to ever become backwards compatible with older software, just because I can see that if it were possible it would have been implemented that way from the start… I don’t think it helps to wish for the impossible… I’m not trying to dash hopes, I’m really not…. just trying to be reasonable…

The truth is…even if you *can’t* get into the new stuff right now, you wouldn’t really wish that no one have access to it, do you? Can you really not see how it will be more economical as time goes on? As every piece of clothing, hair or character “shape” made is now made for EVERY character. It’s brilliant, and it’s a lot of fun. I, for one, am so glad they did it.

Now… I know for those who can’t participate for whatever reasons, it might sound like “bragging” when those who are having fun with the new stuff try to share… but I don’t really think that is the case… and for the most part, I don’t think anyone is happy that some have not been able to play along…

There is still so much potential for Genesis… and I really look forward to where it might go. I know it’s hard to move out of our comfort zone sometimes, and for some of the people here, it may not even be an issue they can do anything about right now, but I hope everyone will eventually be able to look to the future and see the potential that is here for everyone… even if only eventually.

I hope that those who are still using stuff other than Genesis… will find some way to happily co-exist with those who can, and find some way to enjoy all the great stuff that is still here and still available for older generations of the software…

...and I hope that you all will find a way to participate in the near future, if that means Poser ends up working or you get new machines or whatever is needed… because I really miss all the fun we used to have here sharing our work together…with whatever tools we had… with love and respect for each other.

Am I too optimistic to hope?

...I agree, weight mapping is just not possible in older versions of Studio or Poser.  That is why I really don’t care about Genesis anymore.

When I installed 4.5Pro (32) to conduct some experiments, I didn’t even bother to load the Genesis Essentials package that came with it. My main purpose was primarily to see how the app handled older generation content and loading/rendering of scenes created in previous versions of Studio.

...I just would like to know that I could still come to the Daz store and find new content I can and want to use and that there is still a reason to remain a PC member. So far, the whole push towards Genesis has not been very encouraging.

I hope the 5th studio pro is back $ version with pro features. (LOL)
a free version for hobby users.
till complaining by users stops.

LOL,

why would people move backwards?
if the new stuff is so cool?

KK…

first…

**A BIG HUG**

...now…

..with love…

The “new” content is “new”.

And it always will be.

There are a few (rumors) that some vendors are still creating for Gen 4… but the truth is, many have said that people have stopped buying it. I have heard straight from the fingertips of more than one vendor that even when versions were offered to both kinds of customers, the Poser version just did not sell… so can you really expect vendors to create for a customer base that has stopped purchasing? No one could afford to do that. If you have products that sell and products that don’t sell, you are going to have to shape your future developments towards your *actual* customers….know what I mean?

JasmineSkunk - 20 September 2012 01:02 AM

There is still so much potential for Genesis… and I really look forward to where it might go. I know it’s hard to move out of our comfort zone sometimes, and for some of the people here, it may not even be an issue they can do anything about right now, but I hope everyone will eventually be able to look to the future and see the potential that is here for everyone… even if only eventually.

Well put. Comfort zones are hard to break, and many will fight to defend it. But once you step out, you realize its not so bad. I was a Poser user for almost 6 years. But I was so curious to see what Genesis had to offer. I am so glad I did. With Daz4, workflows are so much quicker, easier and more flexable. The structure is so more user friendly, No jumping through hoops to get a simple result.  I was even able to make content for it, something that was a real pain on the older figures. Sometimes I cringe when I read on other sites how people struggle with basic functions to get something done and all the effort involved.

On the general topic of new Gen 4 Items (specifically clothing which is what most people seem to be wanting over characters) there is this very cool outfit that just released today: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/new-releases/edens-flame and her whole store is on sale and I know she supports Gen 4 still to this day.

Both of us are Poser users so we both make extra sure everything we make works in Poser or neither of us could/would use the stuff Anyway since I know in this discussion a lack of items for Gen 4 was brought up, I thought I’d point out there is a store sale and new items made with lots of love and care for Gen 4

HUGS

“I said NEW POSER VERSIONS, not old ones.

Regarding a plug-in I think you are missing the point, DS4 was build around genesis, DS3 wasn’t. Ds3 intrinsically can’t handle the new model without being re-written substantially.”

Now, if I’ve never used Poser, how am I supposed to know the difference between new and old versions?  lol And if I’ve never used DS4 (and know nothing about it), how am I supposed to know about re-writing anything?    Without knowing a thing of either of the programs or Genesis, asking if the new Poser solution will also possibly be applicable to DS3A or if there is intended on being a solution for it in the works, that’s simply hopeful thinking.  For all I know there’s a lighter stand-alone where the Genesis model can be loaded, adjusted and then saved out as a .cr2 or .obj.  (Remember, I know nothing about anything, so how would I even know if that’s possible or not?)  Asking isn’t supposed to hurt.  But if there is a solution for Poser, then, yes, I’d have liked to have gone with Poser over DS3A and still feel it’s a little ironic.  Now, if there were a complete fix of DS3A for me, not having anything to do with DS4 or Genesis, I’d still be pretty happy, because I love my Gen4 figures.

“If your bus stops here, that’s good and all I’m just saying be realistic about it.”

The only way I could be unrealistic about it would be if I was told nothing’s possible and I’d still be expecting something to be done anyway.  So I’m missing what this is supposed to imply.    Now, if I’m being accused of being ignorant about the whole thing, I’ll have to agree, or else I wouldn’t be asking about it and knowing nothing.

Also, I sure hope this “badmouthing” thing of the new software isn’t directed at me.  I have NEVER badmouthed Genesis or DS4.  I’ve not used either, so how would I know anything about them to even give an opinion anyway.  I’ve already bought one Gen item because I liked it so much and have gotten all the Gen freebies in anticipation for “some day”.  I wouldn’t say that’s “badmouthing” so I’m taking this as a general remark not having anything to do with me.

& Re: the upgrade analogy . . . of course I know things on occasion go obsolete and are not backward compatible.  That doesn’t mean I’m not disappointed when they do.

  ::whew::  I’m done. 

Truthfully, I’m worn out on this already.  I don’t think I even care if there’s an answer anymore at this point.  LoL  
I’ve got way too much stuff.  I can wait a couple of years for Genesis.

~ Laterz.

If I’ve confused anything, expect it.  I do that a lot.  Plus I have a horrendous headache. 

First: *SYMPATHIES*.

My old computer runs DS|4, but it’s not going to manage much serious work. And my upgrade hopes look pretty disappointing, right now.

I’m ignorant of programming as well, but, yeah, a DS3 plugin seems implausible, to me. And DS3 probably wouldn’t run for you, with it.

You were asking a reasonable question. Things get misinterpreted sometimes. There’s still been some harshness, here and there. And not long ago there were waves of horse pucky to debunk, that stuff is still fresh in folk’s minds. Of course it might still be going full-blast, in other forums…

Cyn Art - 20 September 2012 07:06 AM

Also, I sure hope this “badmouthing” thing of the new software isn’t directed at me.  I have NEVER badmouthed Genesis or DS4.  I’ve not used either, so how would I know anything about them to even give an opinion anyway.  I’ve already bought one Gen item because I liked it so much and have gotten all the Gen freebies in anticipation for “some day”.  I wouldn’t say that’s “badmouthing” so I’m taking this as a general remark not having anything to do with me.

Nah, he wasn’t pointing fingers.  I’ve seen examples of what he meant.

Mr Leong - 19 September 2012 10:50 PM

Why must it be an “either - or” situation?  Whatever gave you the idea that you’re suppose to dump Poser?  Daz does not require anyone to give up using Poser before they’re allowed to use DS4.

This, exactly. I own Poser 2012, but mainly use DS4.5 now. Am I upset about that? Maybe a little, but DS has a free version, so… no skin off my back. I use Poser content in DS all the time. You don’t need to RE anything. Keep using your v4 and m3 or whatever you want, and get new things for Genesis as you like.

I think it’s more along the lines of “I have all of this stuff I bought previously that I want to use on the shiny new figure, but don’t want to have to pay to have someone do the work of transferring it over.” The older stuff is still there, you haven’t lost anything.