Digital Art Zone

 
   
3 of 4
3
Getting an understanding for using pins/seams with mapping.
Posted: 15 September 2012 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5218
Joined  2008-03-06

Looks like the problem is in the definition of “texture map,” which some people use to mean the UV instead of the diffuse map that is made externally from a UV template (and thus has nothing to do with the process, unless you’re redoing a UV to match an existing texture).  I’ve always used and understood it to mean the latter.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 September 2012 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8220
Joined  2009-07-13

irrellevant but just commenting
I have tried moving vertices around in Carrara’s uv room to fit a texture map
mostly on large poly models it is so laggy and jerky I find it impossible
pity there is not a way to just reduce the polys for the uv grid image without decimating the model so you can shift sections
(sounds silly but what I mean is you see only half the polys but all the ones inbetween get moved too)
I would like to be able to take photographs of buildings, clothes and people and map them onto objects!
can with simple lowpoly ones but certainly not Daz models for instance!

 Signature 

WARNING do not click tongue rolleye what video horrors will be seen if you do cannot be unseen.
my render thread
        never forget
A Drows Walk
Jaderail is at it again

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 September 2012 01:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1482
Joined  2008-01-01

Looks like the problem is in the definition of “texture map,” which some people use to mean the UV instead of the diffuse map that is made externally from a UV template (and thus has nothing to do with the process, unless you’re redoing a UV to match an existing texture).  I’ve always used and understood it to mean the latter.

Exactly - the UV information is contained within the .obj definition file - what you lay out as a UV map is the template that you paint on, or project, the diffuse map onto to instruct the computer where to place each pixel onto the mesh.  I suppose in a way that could be seen as “pinning” the texture to the template, although, for clarity, it would be better described as “fixing”.

This has no relation to the pinning process used to generate the UV template.

@ Wendy - yes, this is a big problem I find using Carrara - the lagging when trying to move verts on the UV grid.  The process you describe works pretty well in Hex because you get almost real-time feedback - not really a recommended method because the result will only apply to the specific map you are using, but it is a useful one-time quick-fix.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 September 2012 04:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

Okay, you win. I’m not going to enter into yet another three day long attempt to nail jelly to a tree, and in the end find out it depends on what the definition of “is” is because someone doesn’t want to lose face.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 September 2012 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5218
Joined  2008-03-06
JoeMamma2000 - 15 September 2012 04:06 PM

Okay, you win. I’m not going to enter into yet another three day long attempt to nail jelly to a tree, and in the end find out it depends on what the definition of “is” is because someone doesn’t want to lose face.

That can happen, but genuine confusion over terms is not the same as ego, and terms can be slippery in 3d because different programs, tutorials and classes do not define terms identically.  In this case it’s more useful to say “by this I meant this” than to just keep shooting in the dark.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 September 2012 11:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1482
Joined  2008-01-01

It is not about “winning” or “saving face” - this is not a competition, simply helping people who asked the question to understand the function of pinning in UV map unwrapping.  Period.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 02:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
SickleYield - 15 September 2012 05:32 PM

That can happen, but genuine confusion over terms is not the same as ego, and terms can be slippery in 3d because different programs, tutorials and classes do not define terms identically.  In this case it’s more useful to say “by this I meant this” than to just keep shooting in the dark.

Sorry, SickleYield, my comments were not directed at you. And no, it’s not confusion over terms.

It’s real simple. Someone stated “Pinning also has nothing to do with pinning it to a texture map”. As a general statement, that is factually incorrect. Nothing to do with terms.

I gave an example of a human face. If you are reproducing a human character, one commonly used technique is to photograph the actual human character and use those images as the texture image that you will apply to the character. In that case, you need certain points on the mesh to line up exactly with certain points on the image. Distorting the image to match up with the UV mapped mesh is very difficult. So you do the opposite. You match your UV unwrapping to the image. That’s where pins come in. They allow you to place certain vertices at fixed points over the image, and tweak and relax and distort the rest of the UV mapped mesh to line up with the rest of the image. Of course they aren’t always used that way, but I was responding to the comment that pins had “nothing to do” with that.

And, clearly, many apps have that functionality, for that particular purpose, which I showed in the excerpts from the various manuals. However, as I said, Carrara and Hex don’t seem to have it. 

However, this being the Carrara forum, what happens is that some folks with very limited knowledge make broad pronouncements that are factually incorrect (not you), and then when you correct them they lead you on a frustrating journey that I call “nailing jelly to a tree”. You can spend hours, days, weeks, trying to explain the facts, but they will never back down. They will always re-define what they said until at some point they can sound like they were right all along. “You misunderstood when I said it was ‘huge’. Obviously, if you knew anything at all, you’d realize that meant ‘really really small’.....”

And then they get angry at you for acting like a smarty pants.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 03:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2194
Joined  2008-01-28

Heh, never mind, can’t be bothered wink

 Signature 

http://andrewfinnie.blogspot.com.au/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 04:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1482
Joined  2008-01-01

Yes, that is the process Wendy referred to.  Just to be clear, when I refer to “pinning”, I’m referring to the use of the pin function as part of the unwrapping process.  The process of matching the UV’s to the texture is done post-unwrapping, of which pinning is a part.

You can certainly move UV’s around to to match the texture, but they don’t need to be pinned, using the pinning function - you simply move them.  In Hex, in order to use the pin function, you would need to go into UV mapping mode.  If you then use the pin function this remaps, so you would be chasing a moving target.

Just to show that I do understand what you are getting at, I made a start in mapping the face of an old man with a beard onto the babyface by moving the UV’s around.  I don’t have the time, inclination or skills needed to do it fully, but it is possible - probably easier in a more sophisticated application.

But thank you for bringing this up - it gives me an idea on how to map an actual photograph onto a FaceWorx head - this would be easier, because the head mesh would be designed from the actual photo, so would already pretty much match the texture to start off with.

Image Attachments
baba.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
Roygee - 16 September 2012 04:48 AM

Just to be clear, when I refer to “pinning”, I’m referring to the use of the pin function as part of the unwrapping process.  The process of matching the UV’s to the texture is done post-unwrapping, of which pinning is a part..

Right. It’s all semantics.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5921
Joined  2006-08-27
JoeMamma2000 - 16 September 2012 02:20 PM
Roygee - 16 September 2012 04:48 AM

Just to be clear, when I refer to “pinning”, I’m referring to the use of the pin function as part of the unwrapping process.  The process of matching the UV’s to the texture is done post-unwrapping, of which pinning is a part..

Right. It’s all semantics.


Seems to me that I said that in a completely unrelated discussion. So who are you going to accuse of starting an argument now? Grow some stones and insult the one that disagreed with you.

 Signature 

I find it somewhat liberating not to be encumbered by accuracy.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 05:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
Roygee - 16 September 2012 04:48 AM

Just to be clear, when I refer to “pinning”, I’m referring to the use of the pin function as part of the unwrapping process.  The process of matching the UV’s to the texture is done post-unwrapping, of which pinning is a part..

Just to be clear, that’s nonsense.

And Evil, I have no clue what you’re so upset about.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 05:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

By the way, as you can see we just had the “redefining what they said until the point where they can sound like they were right all along” phase, and now we’ve just entered the “and then they get angry at you for acting like a smarty pants” phase.  smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5921
Joined  2006-08-27
JoeMamma2000 - 16 September 2012 05:14 PM
Roygee - 16 September 2012 04:48 AM

Just to be clear, when I refer to “pinning”, I’m referring to the use of the pin function as part of the unwrapping process.  The process of matching the UV’s to the texture is done post-unwrapping, of which pinning is a part..

Just to be clear, that’s nonsense.

And Evil, I have no clue what you’re so upset about.


I’m not upset. I’m saying you’re using a line to attack Roygee, that I used in an argument with you. You clearly have edited your quote to try and make it appear as if my reply was a random statement. It wasn’t, and you know it. Roygee had a difference with you, and clearly has some knowledge of what he’s talking about (maybe more than you gasp!) and you decided to bring up what I said in another thread (which he was a part of, and had knowledge of) as a way of trying to belittle his opinion that he would “get.” Again, not emotional or upset, but I call them as I see them.


As I have no knowledge to impart in this thread, I’ll let Joe get back to telling everybody that he’s right, and everybody else is wrong.

 Signature 

I find it somewhat liberating not to be encumbered by accuracy.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 September 2012 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  631
Joined  2010-09-22

One thing that Carraras UV map unfold does that annoys me to no end is how if you chop up a complicated object HOW carrara arranges them all right up against one another and is a pain to grad the exact right lines points and verts to rearrange them…

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 4
3