Plugin update status for DS 4.5

FroschGottFroschGott Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

Sounds very good and is already downloaded, but will not be installed until at least Reality is updated.
I loved to play around with the first Betas and the possibility to connect to C8.5 but had to switch back to use my PlugIns.
Will there be a thread where those updates will be announced (no discussion, simply posting the actual updates)?
I am waiting at least for GenX and Reality until I can update.

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Comments

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 410
    edited December 1969

    Sounds very good and is already downloaded, but will not be installed until at least Reality is updated.
    I loved to play around with the first Betas and the possibility to connect to C8.5 but had to switch back to use my PlugIns.
    Will there be a thread where those updates will be announced (no discussion, simply posting the actual updates)?
    I am waiting at least for GenX and Reality until I can update.

    100% agreed. That's exactly what is needed ... BUT ... this situation shouldn't have arisen in the first place!


    At this point 4.5 is just not useable for anybody who has existing 4.x plugins and this is a problem that I blame 100% on inept software development practices at DAZ. By insisting that, for every version released (whether it be a major build or point release) plugin developers have to recompile and link their code, DAZ have basically created an unsupportable product.


    Sorry to everyone who worked hard on this build, but it's true.

  • SophiDSophiD Posts: 26
    edited December 1969

    ... well it's all excellent, in theory, but until all relevant plugins and shaders have been updated, I'll stick to DS4/DS3/DS2.....

    There is simply too much change in this version and not enough plugin/shader support. We can only run one version instead of side by side installations. The usual DAZ format is ousted in favour of something utterly different. And on top of that, we are told that things we've already saved might or might not work.
    Well DAZ, sorry, but no deal. Not going through the DS3 to DS4 debacle again. I started losing interest after that happened.

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 304
    edited December 1969

    acanthis said:
    At this point 4.5 is just not useable for anybody who has existing 4.x plugins and this is a problem that I blame 100% on inept software development practices at DAZ. By insisting that, for every version released (whether it be a major build or point release) plugin developers have to recompile and link their code, DAZ have basically created an unsupportable product.

    Some changes, as I understood it, neeeded SDK changes. It is those changes which required the updating of plug-ins. During each update, plugin developers have been notified. Naturally not everything will be available at the same time. When Windows 7 was released, there were plenty drivers which needed updating.

  • WayOfTheSwordWayOfTheSword Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Awesome! And for the record, most plugins (such as reality) already have updates. They just weren't going to be released until 4.5 was an official stable release. It's just being thorough.

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 304
    edited December 1969

    SophiD said:
    ... well it's all excellent, in theory, but until all relevant plugins and shaders have been updated, I'll stick to DS4/DS3/DS2.....

    There is simply too much change in this version and not enough plugin/shader support. We can only run one version instead of side by side installations. The usual DAZ format is ousted in favour of something utterly different. And on top of that, we are told that things we've already saved might or might not work.
    Well DAZ, sorry, but no deal. Not going through the DS3 to DS4 debacle again. I started losing interest after that happened.

    One can still load .daz format scenes, but it can only be saved in the new format (DUF). However, some things can be saved in older formats, e.g. presets. Like everything else, 3rd party content will get updated by their respective creators.

  • SophiDSophiD Posts: 26
    edited December 1969

    Awesome! And for the record, most plugins (such as reality) already have updates. They just weren't going to be released until 4.5 was an official stable release. It's just being thorough.

    glad to hear that.

    Will the plugins be reset through DAZ, or will we have to hunt them down again in a vastly horrific Itemised Order History??

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 304
    edited December 1969

    Awesome! And for the record, most plugins (such as reality) already have updates. They just weren't going to be released until 4.5 was an official stable release. It's just being thorough.

    That is my understanding as well.

  • MartialMartial Posts: 50
    edited August 2012

    My version 4 (pro version bought before DAZ give it free) working good with my plugins (ex Reality) and ancient files

    I have downloaded version 4,5 but i think i will not install for now because it necessitate new versions of plugins and i am not sure that old scenes will be able to load
    'i have known this issue with a past version and i had hate this situation

    May be i will past 4,5 and wait for version 5
    I hesitate: I really don't like incertitude about back compatibility

    If i could install version 4,5 and still continue to use version 4 Maybe i would take chance with new version I am sure i am not alone with this consideration

    Post edited by Martial on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,782
    edited December 1969

    Thread split from the 4.5 announcement thread. You can voice your concerns here and not in an official release thread which would violate the TOS in regards to disrupting commercial threads.

  • WayOfTheSwordWayOfTheSword Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Martial said:
    My version 4 (pro version bought before DAZ give it free) working good with my plugins (ex Reality) and ancient files

    I have downloaded version 4,5 but i think i will not install for now because it necessitate new versions of plugins and i am not sure that old scenes will be able to load
    'i have known this issue with a past version and i had hate this situation

    May be i will past 4,5 and wait for version 5
    I hesitate: I really don't like incertitude about back compatibility

    If i could install version 4,5 and still continue to use version 4 Maybe i would take chance with new version I am sure i am not alone with this consideration

    You can load old files from 4.0 into 4.5. I never had a problem with any of mine in 4.5rc3. But once you save as as a .duf file, those cannot be loaded into daz4.0.

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 1,794
    edited December 1969

    Is there by any chance a list of updated plug-ins? I can't actually remember which plug-ins I've bought and may need to be reset, versus which came with DS4Pro and will appear automatically in the download list.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    MelanieL said:
    Is there by any chance a list of updated plug-ins? I can't actually remember which plug-ins I've bought and may need to be reset, versus which came with DS4Pro and will appear automatically in the download list.
    It's in the 4.5 Info as a link on the Commons I think.

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 1,794
    edited December 1969

    Thanks - just what I needed (was it in that post originally? Maybe I need better glasses!)

  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,062
    edited December 1969


    You can load old files from 4.0 into 4.5. I never had a problem with any of mine in 4.5rc3. But once you save as as a .duf file, those cannot be loaded into daz4.0.

    That's because .duf was not implemented in 4.0. I agree on the plugin part, but I guess most will show up in a few days, shaders too, but duf is such a leap ahead, I cant say this enough, .duf is vital to make your own home render farm for DS, as long as you dont render using 3Delight standalone renders.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,246
    edited December 1969

    The links to the updated plutins and shaders are going to the store ...
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/software/plugins-utilities?compat_software=99
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/software/shaders-materials?compat_software=99
    Now to find out which ones I bought and have to reset.

  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,062
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:

    Now to find out which ones I bought and have to reset.

    Wish there was a "filter by category" in the Itemized History ;-)

  • PantherTOPantherTO Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    A better wish for the Itemized History would be that there was an UPDATED indicator if an item has been updated since purchase.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    is reality plugin updated or do we have to wait till jan 2013 after the poser release?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,946
    edited December 1969

    My understanding was that Paolo intends to update Reality 2.x to work in 4.5, and that it's Reality 3 for DS that will follow the release of Reality 3 for Poser.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    acanthis said:
    ... insisting that ...) plugin developers have to recompile and link their code..

    This is common in software and is almost 'always' the case, be it MS, Apple, etc etc etc... It is unfortunately just the nature of the beast for many reasons. It is also why many people put off upgrading until the items they need are supported.

    The other side of this is that eventually the older stuff is no longer supported and people get upset about that (me included at times,) but it is also just part of the nature of growth and change.

  • bjavorbjavor Posts: 0
    edited August 2012

    Totte said:
    Kerya said:

    Now to find out which ones I bought and have to reset.

    Wish there was a "filter by category" in the Itemized History ;-)

    ++
    Or a search. I have 1023 items in that list and even with the maximum 50 items per page I need to go through 21 pages :(

    EDIT: OK. I wasn't paying attention there... It is at least in alphabetical order. This makes it somewhat quicker, though still somewhat awkward...

    Post edited by bjavor on
  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited August 2012

    I copy the list to Evernote. It makes it fast to search through for any item. But, that just lets me find a given item. Version information could be handled much better unfortunately. Specifically, it would be nice if the order history automatically had a way to show what items you have downloaded that there is an update available for. We can only hope :)

    Just saw Panther's post... well I cast my vote for this feature as high priority, along with an installer which saves my preferences so I don't have to keep putting them in every time, and that lets me batch install, preferably from 7z/rar files I've reorganized to my taste ;p

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,955
    edited December 1969

    acanthis said:
    Sounds very good and is already downloaded, but will not be installed until at least Reality is updated.
    I loved to play around with the first Betas and the possibility to connect to C8.5 but had to switch back to use my PlugIns.
    Will there be a thread where those updates will be announced (no discussion, simply posting the actual updates)?
    I am waiting at least for GenX and Reality until I can update.

    100% agreed. That's exactly what is needed ... BUT ... this situation shouldn't have arisen in the first place!


    At this point 4.5 is just not useable for anybody who has existing 4.x plugins and this is a problem that I blame 100% on inept software development practices at DAZ. By insisting that, for every version released (whether it be a major build or point release) plugin developers have to recompile and link their code, DAZ have basically created an unsupportable product.


    Sorry to everyone who worked hard on this build, but it's true.

    The only way to not have an SDK change and not require a recompile is to not advance and improve the software.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited December 1969

    The only way to not have an SDK change and not require a recompile is to not advance and improve the software.

    Incorrect. There's many software companies, such as Adobe, which has advances in software but you can still drop in filters and plugins from previous versions so people don't lose their investments and time waiting for new versions of plugins... and hope the developer does update their plugins.

    The software really needs to be written so that plugins, especially when they are calling the same methods that have not been depreciated, still run without needing recompilation. Things such as this speed adoption of software and allow for people to quickly upgrade; constantly recompiling and changing formats slows it down. The nature of your software is modular; as a software developer, there's really no excuse for the constant changing and recompiling that DS does. Those plug in modules really need to snap in place and run, if those calls are still available to it.

  • WayOfTheSwordWayOfTheSword Posts: 22
    edited August 2012

    My understanding was that Paolo intends to update Reality 2.x to work in 4.5, and that it's Reality 3 for DS that will follow the release of Reality 3 for Poser.

    He stated on the Renderosity forums that he is currently compiling and testing Reality2.5. He just got the SDK yesterday, since there was no advance release of it. So he has to compile 4 versions (32/64bit for Mac & Windows) and test them all to make sure they still work with new features such as instancing/group node/etc.

    Since there is no change in the Reality2 software itself, other than to compile it for the new SDK, it should be out fairly quickly.

    Post edited by WayOfTheSword on
  • WayOfTheSwordWayOfTheSword Posts: 22
    edited August 2012

    Totte said:

    You can load old files from 4.0 into 4.5. I never had a problem with any of mine in 4.5rc3. But once you save as as a .duf file, those cannot be loaded into daz4.0.

    That's because .duf was not implemented in 4.0. I agree on the plugin part, but I guess most will show up in a few days, shaders too, but duf is such a leap ahead, I cant say this enough, .duf is vital to make your own home render farm for DS, as long as you dont render using 3Delight standalone renders.

    Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how I can work a couple of AMD machines with Radeon 7970's into my budget, to have a mini-farm. According to Tom's Hardware review, they blow away even the new high end NVIDIAs for luxrendering. Add Vue and a couple rendercows to them and I think I could have a much faster workflow.

    Oh, and my new avatar is proof that FaceGen still works fine with Daz4.5. :)

    Post edited by WayOfTheSword on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    SDK for 4.5 is released already? COOL beans!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,946
    edited August 2012

    The only way to not have an SDK change and not require a recompile is to not advance and improve the software.

    Incorrect. There's many software companies, such as Adobe, which has advances in software but you can still drop in filters and plugins from previous versions so people don't lose their investments and time waiting for new versions of plugins... and hope the developer does update their plugins.

    The software really needs to be written so that plugins, especially when they are calling the same methods that have not been depreciated, still run without needing recompilation. Things such as this speed adoption of software and allow for people to quickly upgrade; constantly recompiling and changing formats slows it down. The nature of your software is modular; as a software developer, there's really no excuse for the constant changing and recompiling that DS does. Those plug in modules really need to snap in place and run, if those calls are still available to it.

    That's semi true, but remember that Photoshop plugins don't have much access to the internal methods, data and structures of PS - they pretty much get the current layer, its mask, and some memory to work in as I understand it. Plugins that do do more have often had to wait for updates before they will work in a new version of PS for that reason. The same is true for many other applications - plugins that re tightly integrated, or plugin architectures that allow tight integration, tend to be version-specific.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited December 1969

    The only way to not have an SDK change and not require a recompile is to not advance and improve the software.

    Incorrect. There's many software companies, such as Adobe, which has advances in software but you can still drop in filters and plugins from previous versions so people don't lose their investments and time waiting for new versions of plugins... and hope the developer does update their plugins.

    The software really needs to be written so that plugins, especially when they are calling the same methods that have not been depreciated, still run without needing recompilation. Things such as this speed adoption of software and allow for people to quickly upgrade; constantly recompiling and changing formats slows it down. The nature of your software is modular; as a software developer, there's really no excuse for the constant changing and recompiling that DS does. Those plug in modules really need to snap in place and run, if those calls are still available to it.

    That's semi true, but remember that Photoshop plugins don't have much access to the internal methods, data and structures of PS - they pretty much get the current layer, its mask, and some memory to work in as I understand it. Plugins that do do more have often had to wait for updates before they will work in a new version of PS for that reason. The same is true for many other applications - plugins that re tightly integrated, or plugin architectures that allow tight integration, tend to be version-specific.

    However, that still doesn't take away from plugins that access the same non-depreciated methods shouldn't require recompilation. The sdk is the interface to the internal code of the program; so if a plugin is making the same calls there really isn't a reason to recomplile unless there's some new feature the plugin wants to take advantage.

  • chrbou2001chrbou2001 Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    I will download DS 4.5 but not installing. I will wait when (and if) all my plugins and shaders will be updated. Due to the tiring download finding procedure (over 3000 items on my itemized order history - DAZ should look to Renderosity or even better RDNA, in former times also DAZ had a great update service) it will last hours until i find and download them.
    I don´t think that there is a big advantage between DS4Pro and DS4.5Pro to endure the procedure of deleting the old one and installing the new without knowing if it works as well as the old one. Besides this it is always irritating when in just so short intervals arrive always new updates without compatible plugins (DS3, DS4, DS4.5)
    DS4 works great, i will wait for future developments.

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