Digital Art Zone

DAZ_Spooky - 17 August 2012 10:36 AM

The only way to not have an SDK change and not require a recompile is to not advance and improve the software.

Technically that is not correct. Obviously it’s harder to make an SDK that is backward compatible but that is what it’s done routinely by the authors of our OSes. Otherwise any new update of Mac OS, Windows or Linux would break all the applications previously made for them. A program is an “OS plugin”, it runs inside the OS and calls services in the OS API.  When a new version of the OS is released the old applications still run. That is because the underlying set of service calls, the API, has been kept unbroken. The old applications will not be able to take advantage of the new OS features but that is expected.

There is no technical obstacle in making a version of Studio that is backward compatible and that can run the old plugins. It is necessary to make sure to not break old APIs and to keep binary compatibility with the memory structures published previously. It’s more work but it’s definitely, IMHO, worth the effort.

It is particularly hard on developers like me to have to follow every single build of Studio because the SDK is made to not load plugins compiled with a previous build. For example, the DS4.5RC1, RC2, RC3 and final build were all backward incompatible. It takes a long time to:

- Download the SKD for Mac OS
- Download the SDK for Windows
- Download Studio for Mac OS
- Download all the DS plugins for Studio for Mac OS (GoZ etc)
- Download Studio for Windows
- Download all the DS plugins for Studio for Windows OS (GoZ etc)
- Install all the above on Mac and Windows machines
- Compile the Mac OS plugin for DS4 32 bit and DS4 64 bit
- Compile the Window plugins for DS4 32 bit and DS4 64 bit
- Install all four versions and test them individually
- Package the installers and send them to the beta testers.

I made the list a bit detailed, a few things were left out, to illustrate how laborious this procedure is.
Making an update like Reality 2.5 actually made me lose money. There are no new features in the plugin that can entice new customers to upgrade and the whole operation took days of development time.This build was required only to keep up with Studio. In this money-losing scenario it is simply unbearable to go through the above procedure several times.

I hope that future releases of Studio will improve this situation, it will benefit both users and developers.

Cheers.

i understand the problems of software development and release, having worked in the industry back in the bad old days when i had to work, so i know that it’s not a simple straightforward process. however, maintaining a list of plug-ins and their status in respect of any new releases, that IS a simple and straightforward, purely clerical, process

so why isn’t it done? how do i find out the state of plug-ins for this latest version of DS? the four questions that i (and anyone else with plug-ins installed) need answered are:

> which ones have already been updated for the latest version, which i’ll have to reset, re-download, and re-install?

> which ones don’t actually need to be updated at all, because they’ll work fine without having to be recompiled by their authors?

> which ones are going to be updated by their authors in future? (and when is the planned date for their release?)

> and, which ones are never going to be updated by their authors for whatever reason?

where can i find that information (ALL that information, for all possible add-ins), in a handy form, in a single place? i’m pretty sure the answer is “nowhere”, and yet without the information available i can’t make a reasoned decision on whether to replace my currently working version of DS4 with a potentially unusable version of DS4.5

(my apologies if there IS such a tabulated set of data available somewhere, but, if there is then i haven’t found it. i was kinda hoping that this was such a thread, but, hey, at least it’s given me a place to vent)

This thread here has a list of updated plugins :

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5976/

Have a look at this too.  You don’t say what version you are going to install, the latest is 4.5.1.6, and there is info on the Plugins on this page:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/9471/

Many of the Plugins are part of the main installer.  Are there any in particular that you are worried about?

JimmyC_2009 - 20 October 2012 02:18 AM

This thread here has a list of updated plugins :

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/5976/

Have a look at this too.  You don’t say what version you are going to install, the latest is 4.5.1.6, and there is info on the Plugins on this page:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/9471/

Many of the Plugins are part of the main installer.  Are there any in particular that you are worried about?

thanks. i hadn’t come across those threads. they’re better than nothing, but they’re still not terribly helpful. i’d like to see something tabulated for ALL plugins, in one place, and kept up to date by DAZ themselves. this looks like the usual ad hoc “let’s just wing it” thing, where you’ve often got to wade through the whole thread to find what you’re interested in

all it needs is a list, somewhere, of every plugin ever sold in the store, and its current status. a list that only gives the status of the plugins that HAVE been updated doesn’t give users any indication of what’s happening to the ones that HAVEN’T been updated yet (if indeed they ever are going to be updated. i’ve complained elsewhere that they’re still flogging plugins in the store that only work in DS3, without them bothering to mention that fact)

anyhoo, a quick trawl through my Installed Plugins screen shows that i’ve got over 60 installed plugins (including tthe 23 that make up the “DAZ Pro Plug-In Bundle”) , i would expect a lot of those to be packaged up by default in any release (such as the “AVI Exporter” for instance). and some of those, such as the Animated Textures that was DS3 only, don’t load at all, although the majority of them do. there are also some, such as the uberLights, and Age of Armour’s Atmospheric Cameras, that don’t actually appear on the Installed PlugIns screen at all, because they don’t work that way, but as a user i still want to know whether they’re going to work in any new release or not

as to the ones i use reguarly, i can see most of them in the thread you quoted, i think. but no mention of aniMate2 that i could see, and i’ve read elsewhere that there are problems with Reality, so, to be honest, i’m still no wiser as to whether to install or not (i’ve downloaded 4.5.1.6)

thanks for the reply and the links though

as to the ones i use reguarly, i can see most of them in the thread you quoted, i think. but no mention of aniMate2 that i could see, and i’ve read elsewhere that there are problems with Reality, so, to be honest, i’m still no wiser as to whether to install or not (i’ve downloaded 4.5.1.6)

thanks for the reply and the links though

My pleasure.

Animate 2 comes as part of the main DS4.5 installer, it works for 30 days in trial mode, then reverts to Animate Lite if no serial number is entered, so it is OK.
 
Reality was updated as well, and there is an update on Pauolo’s site for version 4.5

Plugins that wre updated for 4.5.0.114 do not need to be updated again for any other version of 4.5, the new SDK came into effect then, and there should not be any further changes to it that I know of.

The major problem with plugins that DAZ 3D do not make, is getting the vendors to update them, and even keeping in contact with some vendors.  I agree that it would be helpfull if there was more information available on what may be updated and what wont, and the Store should really state the version that the plugin works with.

well, i bit the bullet and installed the stoopid thing, and the installation seemed to go ok, and it’s remembered my interface settings, which is nice (it’s also reset some icons which had somehow got mangled in DS4, which is… also nice)

as far as i can see, aniMate knows that i’ve already got a registered version, and isn’t asking for a code to be entered. that’s nice too

also, as far as i can see, my uberLights are still working without even having to reinstall them, which is… unexpected. and nice

just gotta reinstall the dynamic cloth thingee, and Reality, and… some other stuff that i can’t quite remember what it is at the moment

and, i’ve got a feeling everything’s gonna… BE… ALLLLLRIGHT

(kidding, something will go wrong, it’s sure to)

So far, so good