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Everything to do with Lighting in Bryce 7.1
Posted: 03 September 2012 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 10:49 AM

Mark,

Those pills look fantastic! Very realistic. The only quibble I can generate is that the division between the green and purple areas is too soft, it should be much sharper. I think the impression should be of a capsule made of two pieces one fitting neatly within the other. Otherwise, it looks perfect. Great work!

Well if you look at David’s tutorial the capsules are actually off of a primitve you contributed to the additional primitives section of the object library that comes with Bryce 7 Pro. He then shows you how to apply a material from a scene from the bonus content and then split the material in two across the object to create the two sides of the capsule. At least that’s my interpretation of what he showed me in the tutorial. Now you are correct in that it does lack that slight bit of realism of one half being ever so slightly larger then the other to allow the two halves to fit together, creating a subtle edge that can cast a slight shadow. I’m not sure if there is a particular reason why the tutorial does it the way it did rather then making an actual capsule shape from two objects? I would offer the guess that doing it thus would require less exploration of the abilities of the material lab thereby making the tutorial less informative?

I think when I get the label done and people viewing the image start reading that, they’ll be less likely to notice the lack of an edge around the center.

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Posted: 03 September 2012 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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LordHardDriven - 03 September 2012 01:02 PM
Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 10:49 AM

Mark,

Those pills look fantastic! Very realistic. The only quibble I can generate is that the division between the green and purple areas is too soft, it should be much sharper. I think the impression should be of a capsule made of two pieces one fitting neatly within the other. Otherwise, it looks perfect. Great work!

Well if you look at David’s tutorial the capsules are actually off of a primitve you contributed to the additional primitives section of the object library that comes with Bryce 7 Pro. He then shows you how to apply a material from a scene from the bonus content and then split the material in two across the object to create the two sides of the capsule. At least that’s my interpretation of what he showed me in the tutorial. Now you are correct in that it does lack that slight bit of realism of one half being ever so slightly larger then the other to allow the two halves to fit together, creating a subtle edge that can cast a slight shadow. I’m not sure if there is a particular reason why the tutorial does it the way it did rather then making an actual capsule shape from two objects? I would offer the guess that doing it thus would require less exploration of the abilities of the material lab thereby making the tutorial less informative?

I think when I get the label done and people viewing the image start reading that, they’ll be less likely to notice the lack of an edge around the center.

You are correct Mark, I tried the tutorial both ways with using the capsule and fiddling around with boolean operations and making one side slightly larger than the other and all that, and once I was done I thought, yes this is all very well, but it is just manipulating objects and for a tutorial it is time consuming watching me faff around and it does not really teach anything that isn’t already known.  Other than I am slow when it comes to boolean modelling.  So I decided to incorporate a bit of material manipulation in as well, because it could be done faster and it offered a bit more encouragement for folks to play with the material lab.  That was my thinking.

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Posted: 03 September 2012 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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LordHardDriven - 03 September 2012 07:36 AM

All I did was install meshlab (free app available here: meshlab.sourceforge.net) open it up, select the option to “import model” which will allow you to select any supported format which in this case was .ply. Then after that I selected, “export model” which lets you export it in a number of formats including .obj. Once it was in .obj form I then imported it into studio, scaled it if necessary (some of the items come in like 10 times bigger then your viewport) and then sent it via the bridge to bryce. The trick was just waiting long enough for it to happen but for you guys with your muscle machines for computers shouldn’t need as much patience as I had to muster.

You’re my hero! I’ve installed MatLab, got the Stanford models and converted them to obj. I imported them directly into Bryce - why use Studio and the bridge? Here are my results:

Amadillo, 26.7 MB as obj, uses 73.5 MB of Bryce memory and imports in about 5 seconds.

Bunny, 6 MB as obj, uses 24.5 MB of Bryce memory, imports in about 1 second.

Dragon, 68.4 MB as obj, uses 168 MB of Bryce memory, imports in 30 seconds.

Happy Buddha, 85.5 MB as obj, uses 185 MB of Bryce memory, imports in 1 minute.

xyzrgb_Dragon, 615.4 MB as obj, uses 1.3 GB of Bryce memory, imports in 39 minutes.

Now, the file could not be saved, neither could I put the dragon into the Objects Library, each time I got an Out of Memory error, even though there were still 2 GB left. But Bryce did not crash.

So I exported the object as 3ds, which took about 5 seconds. Adter quitting and restarting Bryce, I imported the 3ds with a filesize of 150.4 MB. 1.3 GB of Bryce memory were used and the dragon imported in around 10 seconds. I could save it in the Objects Library which grew by 618.2 MB.

The dragon can be taken out of the Object Library, which takes about 10 seconds. Bryce memory usage is 1.3 GB. I’ve monitored memory usage of Bryce only with the Process Monitor.

I still have to import xyzegb_statue at 864.1 MB as object. I reckon that would take about 2 hours. And then, there is Lucy at 2.5 GB as object - that one will probably take a day, if it imports at the full resolution.

Thanks again Mark. Without your comment, I wouldn’t have tried again.

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Posted: 03 September 2012 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 01:27 AM

...I get most of the math, but not all of it like Horo or Peter or even David.

Er, no, my head is a maths free zone. No idea where you got that notion from. If it was from me then it was just a calculated lie.

Perhaps you meant moths - I have any number of those sodding things. Probably the only way to subtract them is to burn the house down. I’m weighing the pluses and minuses on that…

.

 

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Posted: 03 September 2012 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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Dwsel,

Fascinating!

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

Hello, I’m quite a new on this forum. I’m self thought graphic designer, a bit of programmer, CG admirer and occassional beta tester of some apps.

I hope you don’t mind me hijacking this thread while my travel to look for true refractive caustics in Bryce wink
I started independently testing Bryce renders engine capabilities and I have some observations.

On the contrary, welcome!

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

Renderer in Bryce looks for me like a brute force forward path tracer.
- http://web4.cs.ucl.ac.uk/teaching/4074/archive/2010/Slides/JK2010/03_path tracing.pdf (what PT is - easy Path Tracing maths course)
In classic path tracing the ray is shot from the specific pixel and then it travels bouncing at random direction from the diffuse surfaces, at reflection angle from mirror surfaces or is bend when going into the refractive objects, and it bounces till it finds light source.

That sounds like a fair description of the way it seems to work. Thanks for this useful insight. I never knew the formal name for it.

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

More light was allowed in 7 with Boost light option and as shown by David Brinnen in his tutorials is often created by amplifying the light on inside of the sphere or cuboid with partially transparent ‘shell’. I’ve read here http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_easyfaq&task=cat&catid=19&Itemid=41#faq25 that creating physically correct, non amplifying light materials is a helpful way of getting rid of fireflies. So I altered the characteristics of TA optimized light material (I used fuzzy, 25% transparent, 75% diffuse, 75% ambient) and it changed a little bit light directional response and totally got rid of fireflies! (You can compare 1st image from 4_mix.png with 2 image from 5_mix.png - I’ll have to rerender 1st from 4_mix.png with new material to confirm my observations)

TA Optimized Light sources were initially intended to be functional as physically accurate light sources. With a bit more development I think it possible in the future.

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

Another ways of getting rid of fireflies in Path Tracing in this article: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Render/Cycles/Reducing_Noise Especially 2 options are interesting, so I’d cover them briefly here:
1. Sample as lamp - is directly connected to what I wrote above. It means that TA optimized light is possibly sampled like a regular mesh instead of the light source (well… I’ll have to investigate it a little bit more, and try out TA optimized domes and fills)
2. Clamp fireflies - is option inverse to boost light, but instead of limiting light to 0.0 - 1.0 range it allows setting the upper range to any value. Setting clamping at value higher than 1 results in getting rid of fireflies while making light response natural http://archive.dingto.org/2012/blender/clamp_overview_bmw_mike_pan.jpg

My feature request for future Bryce versions would be an option:
Clamp high (checkbox and input field - values from 0 - +inf) - if the light strength is higher than the value use value instead - option for reducing fireflies
Discard low (checkbox and input field - values from -inf - 1) - if the light strength is lower than the value then stop tracing further rays - option for stopping tracing rays and speeding up rendering or getting rid of black fireflies when max tracing depth or clamp when using negative lights

When you described the clamping as a solution to the noise it reminds me a lot of the way default TA works and the way the render engine generally works. Solutions fixed to a range of 0.0 or 1.0 is the exact deterministic state that TA is in when Boost Light is not enabled. Boost Light is improperly named because it doesn’t actually amplify the light output, if bright sources are present Boost Light merely allows surfaces to see those light emitters for what they truly are even if the result exceed values of 1.0. This is why Boost Light is necessary to take advantage of high dynamic range light and color. Boost Light likely is the exact tool you are requesting that can lift the upper limit. What we still do not know is how high that current limit has been raised with Boost Light. If it were possible to ask the programmers today it would be really nice but alas, no luck.

Clamping to put a boundary on the noise would have predictable side effects such as lowered overall contrast, again reminiscent. of default TA. I’m guessing some sort of new ideal is still necessary.

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

Several posts ago somebody mentioned the alternative ways of rendering Photon mapping, but I think it’s not very ‘mega scene’/instancing/displacement friendly. Storing big photon map makes use of memory and often is not good idea for big scenes. It however works well for interiors and especially for caustics, it would be nice addition for rendering caustics but imho not a primary method (comparison of rendering methods: http://raytracey.blogspot.com/2011/01/which-algorithm-is-best-choice-for-real.html )

That’s a very clever insight I certainly hadn’t considered. Storing maps would consume much of the limited resources Bryce already has. In my mind I would assume the exchange of probe discoveries among pixels would be no more challenging to calculate than mesh smoothing, but I guess its a bit trickier.

 

dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

BTW.
There might be a bug of how TA treats the face turned to the front compared with the face turned to the right. Please have a look at the colourization on the back face coming from the red face compared with the blue one, it might not be caustic pattern.

Regards
dwsel

There was a bug with the default cube from Bryce 6 and earlier. It was repaired in Bryce 7. If you are recreating scenes from your Bryce 5 days it’s possible you’ve imported an old cube. Not sure if would really matter since primitives aren’t real geometry anyhow. Just stabbing in the dark on that one.

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Posted: 03 September 2012 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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Horo - 03 September 2012 01:41 PM

You’re my hero! I’ve installed MatLab, got the Stanford models and converted them to obj. I imported them directly into Bryce - why use Studio and the bridge? Here are my results:

Amadillo, 26.7 MB as obj, uses 73.5 MB of Bryce memory and imports in about 5 seconds.

Bunny, 6 MB as obj, uses 24.5 MB of Bryce memory, imports in about 1 second.

Dragon, 68.4 MB as obj, uses 168 MB of Bryce memory, imports in 30 seconds.

Happy Buddha, 85.5 MB as obj, uses 185 MB of Bryce memory, imports in 1 minute.

xyzrgb_Dragon, 615.4 MB as obj, uses 1.3 GB of Bryce memory, imports in 39 minutes.

Now, the file could not be saved, neither could I put the dragon into the Objects Library, each time I got an Out of Memory error, even though there were still 2 GB left. But Bryce did not crash.

So I exported the object as 3ds, which took about 5 seconds. Adter quitting and restarting Bryce, I imported the 3ds with a filesize of 150.4 MB. 1.3 GB of Bryce memory were used and the dragon imported in around 10 seconds. I could save it in the Objects Library which grew by 618.2 MB.

The dragon can be taken out of the Object Library, which takes about 10 seconds. Bryce memory usage is 1.3 GB. I’ve monitored memory usage of Bryce only with the Process Monitor.

I still have to import xyzegb_statue at 864.1 MB as object. I reckon that would take about 2 hours. And then, there is Lucy at 2.5 GB as object - that one will probably take a day, if it imports at the full resolution.

Thanks again Mark. Without your comment, I wouldn’t have tried again.

Cool glad to be of help however, as happy as I am for you to hear your results it begs the question of why my Bryce 7 Pro installation can’t import .obj’s at all. I was assuming it was something odd about the models as a result of the conversion but you used the same program and it worked. There is an option in the filters section of meshlab that will let you reduce the mesh significantly which might make things easier for you? I can attempt to work up the steps I followed should you have need. That’s how I was able to get Lucy and the other xyzrgb statue over the bridge and into Bryce. Here are some renders to show you how they look.

Obviously these images are based on the greatly reduced meshes since that’s the only way I could get them in Bryce and at least as far as my eyes can tell I see no negative side effects of that mesh reduction. Although I did use the least reduced mesh I could get away with. I do know some of the even more reduced versions you can see surface differences on the mesh.

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Posted: 03 September 2012 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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David Brinnen - 11 August 2012 06:34 AM

Of the new tutorials all these have something to say about lighting - admittedly some more so than others…

Bryce desert landscape - part 1 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen 
Bryce desert landscape - part 2 - a 15 minute tutorial in two parts by David Brinnen
Bryce still life project - “capsules” - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce lake in a landscape - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce Abstract 360 HDRI Specular effect - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce lighthouse “light beam” effect - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce red hot metal effect - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce “Nuts and Bolts” - HDRI lighting project - red dragon in a white box - part 1 - a video tutorial by David Brinnen

Is there a simple, PRINT article or forum note on using Round spotlights and having them show as brightly as they did in earlier Bryce versions? I get a black spot sometimes, other playing with include/exclude on the light’s edit page will give me a usable light, but never as well as older version did.
Bryce “Nuts and Bolts” - HDRI lighting project - red dragon in a white box - part 2 - a video tutorial by David Brinnen
Bryce (TA) True Ambiance still life render of a red dragon - a 15 minute tutorial by David Brinnen

Image one from http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

I’ve indicated which of my old video tutorials relate to lighting.  And also how tricky I consider them to be.

Image two again from http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

The two news ones relate to lighting and are fairly self explanatory.

Image three from http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

All of Horo’s tutorials (edit: except the first) relate to lighting.

Something then to open up the discussion?

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Posted: 04 September 2012 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 02:11 PM
dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

Hello, I’m quite a new on this forum. I’m self thought graphic designer, a bit of programmer, CG admirer and occassional beta tester of some apps.

I hope you don’t mind me hijacking this thread while my travel to look for true refractive caustics in Bryce wink
I started independently testing Bryce renders engine capabilities and I have some observations.

On the contrary, welcome!

Thank you for the kind invitation Rashad!

Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 02:11 PM

When you described the clamping as a solution to the noise it reminds me a lot of the way default TA works and the way the render engine generally works. Solutions fixed to a range of 0.0 or 1.0 is the exact deterministic state that TA is in when Boost Light is not enabled. Boost Light is improperly named because it doesn’t actually amplify the light output, if bright sources are present Boost Light merely allows surfaces to see those light emitters for what they truly are even if the result exceed values of 1.0. This is why Boost Light is necessary to take advantage of high dynamic range light and color. Boost Light likely is the exact tool you are requesting that can lift the upper limit. What we still do not know is how high that current limit has been raised with Boost Light. If it were possible to ask the programmers today it would be really nice but alas, no luck.

Clamping to put a boundary on the noise would have predictable side effects such as lowered overall contrast, again reminiscent. of default TA. I’m guessing some sort of new ideal is still necessary.

I agree with you that rigid on/off switch as we currently have is really helpful control for some lighting situations but at the same time somewhat limiting (pun intended) wink

Rashad Carter - 03 September 2012 02:11 PM
dwsel_ - 03 September 2012 11:51 AM

BTW.
There might be a bug of how TA treats the face turned to the front compared with the face turned to the right. Please have a look at the colourization on the back face coming from the red face compared with the blue one, it might not be caustic pattern.

Regards
dwsel

There was a bug with the default cube from Bryce 6 and earlier. It was repaired in Bryce 7. If you are recreating scenes from your Bryce 5 days it’s possible you’ve imported an old cube. Not sure if would really matter since primitives aren’t real geometry anyhow. Just stabbing in the dark on that one.

The weird thing is that the scene has been built in Bryce 7 from 2D faces and square parallel light only. I guess I’ll need to render more cornell boxes to investigate that.


Anyway…
Here are my new caustics tests. I’ve got the feeling that my patience along my computer’s speed wouldn’t handle rendering a lot of these on daily basis ;P
These objects are from default library (build from booleans). The water is not correctly set up yet for this test (there’s a gap between the water and glass which should be in reality substituted with glass-water interface of different IOR). The look of the caustics depend highly on use of TIR - it looks that it should be on with risen number of bounces, but at the same time it looks that TIR ‘steals’ rays from regular ray depth, making rendering faster but causing glass to be black or incorrectly distorted in some places. This image uses Ray Depth of 17 and TIR Depth of 5. I hope it was not overkill.
On image there’s comparison with default fake caustics for direct light.

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Posted: 04 September 2012 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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@LordHardDriven - The xyzrgb_statue has 864.1 MB as obj file. Bryce needs 1.81 GB and 70 minutes to load. Unfortunately, I could not save it, neither convert it to 3ds.

I haven’t yet figured out how to reduce the meshes. Obviously, a 600 MB obj file is about all Bryce can handle even when made large address aware.

The Wavefront obj file has been with Bryce since at least v4. I could import the bunny as obj into Bryce 4 within seconds. I can’t imagine what’s wrong with your Bryce 7.1 installation.

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Posted: 04 September 2012 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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@dwsel_ - your comments about different render methods are very interesting. Thank you for sharing them with us.

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Posted: 04 September 2012 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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Horo - 04 September 2012 12:47 PM

@LordHardDriven - The xyzrgb_statue has 864.1 MB as obj file. Bryce needs 1.81 GB and 70 minutes to load. Unfortunately, I could not save it, neither convert it to 3ds.

I haven’t yet figured out how to reduce the meshes. Obviously, a 600 MB obj file is about all Bryce can handle even when made large address aware.

The Wavefront obj file has been with Bryce since at least v4. I could import the bunny as obj into Bryce 4 within seconds. I can’t imagine what’s wrong with your Bryce 7.1 installation.

Well it’s not a time thing with my installation of Bryce on importing .obj’s. I get an error message instantly, that reads, “An unexpected error has occured (failed creation).” The slow time on imports were only happening to me on sending the same obj’s over the bridge from Studio. The bigger the file size of the mesh the longer it took.

As for shrinking the mesh well here is how I did it. First I converted the files of course and then once I had them in .obj format I then imported them back into meshlab using the .obj I just created. Once it was fully loaded I then went to the filters menu of meshlab and from the drop down menu that appears I went to the catagory of selection and then on the secondary drop down menu for the selections catagory I chose the option select all. A box then popped up and in that box I clicked the option to apply. You should notice the model turn red from the selection process (a deep red because the mesh is so dense on some of these). Then I went back to the filters menu and this time I went down to the Remeshing, Simplification and Reconstruction catagory and from the secondary drop down menu I chose the option “Quadric Edge Collapse Descimation”. A box pops up that shows the default setting for the process and also allows you to put in your own settings if you prefer. The default setting typically cuts the number of faces in half and I know if you push this sort of process too far it’ll seriously degrade the mesh. So I just left it at the default settings and clicked apply. You’ll see a progress bar at the bottom showing you how the process is going and at the end you’ll notice the number of faces reported below the model will have been reduced to what was set in the default setting of the decimation process. Now since I wanted to preserve the quality of the mesh as best I could I then saved it closed meshlab to clear anything out of memory. Opened it again, imported the reduced mesh and then repeated the process. I did this 4 times so as to have several to try and I’d go with the first one that I could actually get in Bryce. That way I’d have the least reduced mesh that worked and therefore the mesh quality should be as good as it will be. Which as near as I can tell the mesh quality wasn’t severely impacted.

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Posted: 05 September 2012 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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Okay I finally had a chance to do the label tutorial and below is the result of that. There was an issue though that I imagine was the result of how the lighting was achieved. Besically the colors in the texture for the label got washed out. The little pharmacy icon in the top left corner should be orange not grey. Also the store name of Hulk-Mart was green and there are also some yellow boxes behind the prescription number and where it says no refills Dr. must authorize, that don’t show up. Ive also included the texture I used for the label so you can see what it was supposed to look like.

Another odd thing was that I did things exactly as described in the tutorial for the label with the only difference being that I used photshop instead of paintshop. In the material editor everything looked fine as I set it up but the text on the label wasn’t showing up. Now in the past when I’ve used masks I’ve always had them on a seperate channel from the texture. Now also in the past when I’ve two things on one channel it’s been with bump maps. Instead of using a seperate bump map though I’ve always just used the texture as the bump map in the texture source editor by copying the texture on the left and pasting it in the spot in the middle to get the desired result on the right. So I tried that for my label and it worked and the text showed up but it shouldn’t be that way should it?

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Posted: 05 September 2012 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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@LordHardDriven - I can’t help you with the colours. I’ve never had this issue. In what format have you saved the picture out of Photoshop?

Been experimenting with MeshLab, crashed on me several times. I had a hard time removing that “XYZ = RGB” below the xyzrgb_dragon but finally was successful.

Your help to reduce the meshes is very much appreciated. I halved and saved as PLY, which is faster. Then halved this one as well and had a crash. Had to re-launch MeshLab. I did all manipulations in PLY. It was not possible to reduce the mesh count from the original 4 times. Oh, it could be done, just on saving it crashed. I finally relaunched it after each PLY export, halved, saved as PLY, quit, launched, ad infinitum (well, not quite). Then I loaded the reduced PLYs and exported as OBJ. I had the impression things run faster this way. I lost the whole evening on the xyzrgb_dragon but could test the xyzrgb_statue at 1/8 resolution in Bryce and it looked still quite good.

You must understand these modelling thingies quite well. I had looked at the menus yesterday and was just baffled. In fact, I still am but with your help, I could accomplish what I wanted.

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Posted: 05 September 2012 03:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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LordHardDriven - 05 September 2012 07:57 AM

Okay I finally had a chance to do the label tutorial and below is the result of that. There was an issue though that I imagine was the result of how the lighting was achieved. Besically the colors in the texture for the label got washed out. The little pharmacy icon in the top left corner should be orange not grey. Also the store name of Hulk-Mart was green and there are also some yellow boxes behind the prescription number and where it says no refills Dr. must authorize, that don’t show up. Ive also included the texture I used for the label so you can see what it was supposed to look like.

Another odd thing was that I did things exactly as described in the tutorial for the label with the only difference being that I used photshop instead of paintshop. In the material editor everything looked fine as I set it up but the text on the label wasn’t showing up. Now in the past when I’ve used masks I’ve always had them on a seperate channel from the texture. Now also in the past when I’ve two things on one channel it’s been with bump maps. Instead of using a seperate bump map though I’ve always just used the texture as the bump map in the texture source editor by copying the texture on the left and pasting it in the spot in the middle to get the desired result on the right. So I tried that for my label and it worked and the text showed up but it shouldn’t be that way should it?

I think I know exactly what has happened here, post me the file and I will fix it for you - and in the process I will explain.  It is easier if I show you with your own file.

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Posted: 05 September 2012 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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Horo - 05 September 2012 02:08 PM

@LordHardDriven - I can’t help you with the colours. I’ve never had this issue. In what format have you saved the picture out of Photoshop?

Been experimenting with MeshLab, crashed on me several times. I had a hard time removing that “XYZ = RGB” below the xyzrgb_dragon but finally was successful.

Your help to reduce the meshes is very much appreciated. I halved and saved as PLY, which is faster. Then halved this one as well and had a crash. Had to re-launch MeshLab. I did all manipulations in PLY. It was not possible to reduce the mesh count from the original 4 times. Oh, it could be done, just on saving it crashed. I finally relaunched it after each PLY export, halved, saved as PLY, quit, launched, ad infinitum (well, not quite). Then I loaded the reduced PLYs and exported as OBJ. I had the impression things run faster this way. I lost the whole evening on the xyzrgb_dragon but could test the xyzrgb_statue at 1/8 resolution in Bryce and it looked still quite good.

You must understand these modelling thingies quite well. I had looked at the menus yesterday and was just baffled. In fact, I still am but with your help, I could accomplish what I wanted.

Actually no, I don’t really understand them that well, just enough to make me dangerous smile Plus like I said, the version I have anyway gives you a description of what the options do when you move your mouse over the item, so that helped guide me a bit. Basically I just started looking for words that might relate to reducing a mesh. I saw the word decimate and zeroed in on that because Daz has a program for reducing meshes called decimator.

The way you did it by working from the .ply format was probably the smartest way to do it, reduce the mesh in it’s original form first and then convert it.

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