Digital Art Zone

Trust me, I’ll be picking her and M4 up when he hits their store.  Right now I’m still playing with Genesis allot in my spare time and need to get my freebies finished up eventually!  lol

WM V4 is for Poser only.  You must be one of those ambidexterous bi polar sorts of people that use both programs.  I was going to start a sarcastic rant about how it wasn’t available for Studio, and that just isn’t fair and on and on… but I thought better of it, being the non trouble making, high minded sort of fellow I am.

Since Daz has made the decision to move Mike and Vicky into Genesis platform it would probably be too confusing to release Poser base figures with the name M5 and V5…. so maybe Daz can create new Poser base figures with new names… using all the latest Poser technology… something to energize Poser users like Genesis has done for Daz users.

MrPoser - 28 May 2012 12:07 PM

Since Daz has made the decision to move Mike and Vicky into Genesis platform it would probably be too confusing to release Poser base figures with the name M5 and V5…. so maybe Daz can create new Poser base figures with new names… using all the latest Poser technology… something to energize Poser users like Genesis has done for Daz users.

Have you looked at the WMV4 linked above?  I don’t know about “re-energizing”, but it does have some of the coolest features of Genesis.  I don’t use Poser, but if I used both programs, I think it would be a hard decision whether to stay with Gen4 (using the WM figure), or change to Genesis.  Not everyone is happy about having to re-invest in new figures, morphs, etc for Genesis.  Sounds like the WMV4 answers allot of those complaints as you can use all your existing morphs, skins, and clothing, yet still get the better bending.

EDIT: V4.5?

Bottom line is Poser does not have the ability to support a figure like Genesis.  It requires a high polygon figure to get the same result.  Ten years ago I begged Curious Labs (who then owned Poser) to implement Subdivision Surfaces in Poser… they did it in the render engine, but never implemented true SDS.  The problem is that they decided to lag behind the technology by ten lousy years (and COUNTING).  DAZ, however, has managed to get it implemented in D|S4, and hopefully we’ll get other stuff (dymanics?  Better SSS?) implemented in D|S5…

The problem is not DAZ.  It’s the guys controlling the development of Poser.

I keep trying to tell you that’s where the problem is, but nobody seems to want to listen.

wancow - 04 June 2012 10:50 PM

Bottom line is Poser does not have the ability to support a figure like Genesis.  It requires a high polygon figure to get the same result.  Ten years ago I begged Curious Labs (who then owned Poser) to implement Subdivision Surfaces in Poser… they did it in the render engine, but never implemented true SDS.  The problem is that they decided to lag behind the technology by ten lousy years (and COUNTING).  DAZ, however, has managed to get it implemented in D|S4, and hopefully we’ll get other stuff (dymanics?  Better SSS?) implemented in D|S5…

The problem is not DAZ.  It’s the guys controlling the development of Poser.

I keep trying to tell you that’s where the problem is, but nobody seems to want to listen.

I remember reading a post on the old forums that came from one of the Daz developers regarding Genesis in Poser. Part of what he wrote said that Daz was helping SM to bring the Genesis platform to Poser, but for whatever reason SM pulled the plug on the project, or something to that effect. Daz is more than willing to help SM get the job done, but someone at SM needs to get the ball rolling.

StrangeFox - 26 May 2012 02:56 PM

Yes, DavidGB, that’s what I am asking for. I should tell you that I have a degree in toy design and I do 3D modeling, etc. I understand the work involved. So let me be clear, I am asking DAZ to be loyal to all of those of us who have been loyal to them. I am asking DAZ to support all of those of us who have given them our money and been members for years and who still use Poser. Let’s be really clear about this, this site WAS BUILT ON POSER CUSTOMERS.

I still wish to be a customer. There is still money to be made from poser customers. I like DAZ and wish to remain a member. All I am asking for is the opportunity to do so. Am I such a bad guy for asking DAZ to offer me something that I can buy? Am I really so rotten for saying DAZ why don’t you want my money? Many other companies create and support multiple formats, DAZ could if they wanted too.

and once again, I have to agree, if this is the subject of endless debate, them maybe its something that should be addressed and not ignored.

Hi StrangeFox. I understand what you are saying. Now, I do not have any inside info about DAZ3D’s plans for Poser customers in the future, but I am guessing that they want to keep them happy as customers. No matter what products and services are offered to DAZ3D customers, the truth is, that from now on, Poser and DAZ Studio are just different programs. Daz3D is supportive of both, but the products made and sold for them will most likely be for either one or the other… or for Bryce… or Carrara… or whatever…

Poser and Daz Studio may not be compatible anymore, but that is not the same thing as saying that Daz3D doesn’t want to provide products to Poser customers. Please understand, the people here are not trying to dash your hopes, we are just trying to explain that BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio have changed the way they were doing things…and as they did this, they had to take different routes to give the customer the best it could offer ( on both sides)... it wasn’t spiteful disreguard on either side… it’s just the way it went…

I know soooo many vendors that have tried to reassure customers they will continue to create for Poser, but then they say people have stopped buying what they offer, claiming it’s not as cool as the stuff for Daz Studio…. it just isn’t possible to make everybody happy all the time…

but I do believe that even though that is probabally a true statement, that DAZ3D is trying really hard to do that anyway… they have had an INCREDIBLE run of bad luck… if they were a friend of ours, we might be more supportive with our own words and actions…

Personally, I am grateful to them for the community they have created here and for the generosity they have always shown us in the past… I trust they will make things OK…

First let me say, I appreciate all of the input and the fact that for the most part people are trying to be “real” and have a discussion not just get nasty. Thank you.

The issue I am having is that I have spent a lot of time and money for something DAZ has turned its back on. Its all well and good to say we want vendors to still support poser, but when DAZ quits making stuff for Poser and focuses its time and energy on a new platform, why would you expect vendors to support the old one? When vendors do come out with versions of new stuff for both Genesis and Poser, I almost always buy it (or at least the poser version). I will also say that if there were two roads to take, DAZ should have taken the one that stayed loyal to its loyal customers. I have spent over five thousand dollars at DAZ for God’s sake, that should count for something.

I am also seeing a general decline in the customer service I get from DAZ and I think that this is part of why I am so upset by the whole Poser/ DAZ studio thing. A great example of this is the platinum club vouchers. How do you not know that you are going to have a problem before you launch the site because your old vouchers won’t work with your new system? and then when you do have a problem, do you drop an email to all of those of us who have been members for YEARS? No you expect us to dig out references in posts buried in a forum. This is a lousy way to do business and says a lot about the attitude of those in charge. When you realize that you have created a problem for loyal customers, you shouldn’t wait until they come to you and ask what happened and then refer them to the forums, you should contact them and say “hey we are having a problem and we are working on it, sorry for the inconvenience.” It would also free up a lot of help requests and help with the backlog that they are dealing with. Most of all it would tell customers that you care, something I don’t seem to be seeing a lot of from DAZ right now.  I am very disappointed.

Daz3d do seem to have very poor communication skills sometimes, they also make some corporate decisions that leave many people wondering what they were thinking.
BUT they have made Daz Studio a fantastic program, barring the odd bug or two (or more).
They have also offered it free to anyone who wants it and I for one thank them for that.
Daz Studio comes with default content, including Genesis. It is only right and proper that Daz should offer morphs etc. for its own default content. V5 and M5 are morphs for Daz default content.
If I remember correctly Poser comes with default content, this is not available to Daz Studio users.
If this default content is not up to the standard required then that is not the fault of Daz3d but the of developers of Poser.
There are some great new features in Daz Studio which would not have been there if Daz had stuck to the old Poser way of doing things.
I was a Poser user for many years but when I saw Genesis I had to jump ship. I uninstalled Poser to force myself to learn Studio.
Funny thing is recently I had to reinstall Poser to accomplish a small task and I sat there staring at the screen for ages - I couldn’t remember what to do.
I know some people feel abandoned but at the end of the day the two programs have gone separate ways - the price of progress.

I understand what you are saying sir and I am not discounting DAZ studio’s benefits, but considering the way DAZ does things I have concerns that I will build another library and then have DAZ in a few years arbitrarily decide not to support that either. The issue here is not the quality or virtues of DAZ studio, but DAZ’s lack of loyalty to customers that it built its business on. DAZ is not good about communication and can also be seriously lacking in customer service skills. Other sites don’t necessarily have the same level of products, but their customer service is much better; Its insulting when you pay for a membership month after month and get a lower quality of service then I get from a site I have no membership with.

Also, if I am going to invest the time in learning an entirely new program it will not be another second tier program like DAZ Studio or Poser it will be a first tier program like 3D max or something that is on the level of professionals.