Please, do a version of MIke 5 and Vicki 5 for poser.

StrangeFoxStrangeFox Posts: 0
edited May 2012 in Product Suggestions

Please! do a version of mike 5 and Vicki 5 for those of us who still use Poser. I understand that they will not have all of the features of Genesis, but there is no reason why you can not do a Poser version too. I have been a loyal customer and platinum club member for many years and I have invested a lot of money (literally thousands of dollars ) with you building a library and now I feel totally abandoned.

Post edited by StrangeFox on

Comments

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Why? Did they take the library you already have away from you?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,890
    edited December 1969

    This is something that has been debated ad infinitum.

    The only way to use These figures at the moment is through the CR2 export plugin for Daz Studio.

  • StrangeFoxStrangeFox Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    @Ascania - not all Poser stuff works in DAZ studio and if I change over I am going to loose a large part of my library and a large investment of both time and money..

    @Chohole - yes and that would require me to use DAZ Studio which is the whole point of my post (and it would also mean that even a slight change to a pose or anything else would be a lot more work). If this has been the subject of so much debate, it just shows that I am not the only customer that feels this way.

    ...and what if I do switch over to DAZ Studio and build a new library? how do I know that five years from now that you are not going to do the same thing and switch again? I just think that its lousy to try to force customers to do something that they don't want to. I am so disappointed in DAZ it just turns my stomach when I sign in now. I used to come here several times a day looking for new products etc. and now it makes me feel bad to visit because I just think of all the money I have spent and see it going down the drain.

    ...and worse for DAZ I am finding less and less to spend my money on, I come to your sight with money to spend and now have trouble finding stuff that I want or can use. I want to be a loyal customer, I want to spend my money here, I just don't seem to be able to find anything to buy anymore. You are forcing me to go to other sites to look for products I can use and I don't think either one of use wants this.

    In case I haven't made this clear, you would get HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS in sales from me TODAY if you had Mike 5 and Vicki 5 for Poser. I don't know of any business in this economy that can afford to alienate customers with money that want their product. Please, reconsider you decision to turn you back on poser customers.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    @StrangeFox

    I agree. It would be nice to have a version of V5 for Poser. I'm not a Poser user (I use Carrara, and the 8.5 version has been playing havoc on people's systems).

    If a topic has been discussed ad nausseum, maybe that's because it is something that needs fixing. Not hushing up.

    Thanks for your post.
    :coolsmile:

  • DavidGBDavidGB Posts: 450
    edited December 1969

    The thing to understand is that DAZ cannot do a 'version of Mike 5 and Vicki 5' for Poser. Mike 4 and Vicki 4 were built on Poser technology, Mike 5 and Vicki 5 are not. M5 and V5 use a lightweight mesh (less than a third of the polys as M4/V4) that nevertheless bends better and renders smoother than M4/V4 in DS4 because of the specific joint systen and subdivision systen used in DS4, and the mesh being constructed specifically for that joint and subdivision system. And the addition of new morph sets and UV sets is transparent to the user without any need for injection and/or product reinitialization because it's built on a completely different systen to Poser.

    DAZ cannot just produce a version for Poser because Poser does not support the technologies that are used in m5/V5. it does not use the same joint system, or support the subdivision system. it does not support reading the formats of the files that the figure is in, or the on the fly morph and UV set integration system.

    If DAZ were to produce new figures for Poser, they would be exactly that - new figures for Poser. They would not be versions of M5/V5; they would be an entirely new product line of Poser figures, constructed to get better results than with M4/V4 by designing them for the systems and file formats used by Poser. Just to start with, the base mesh would have to be quite different, at least around the joints, customized for the Poser joint system and smoothing; following that would have to be a new rig; and then some new system for morph set distribution; and so on and on. So if you wish to ask DAZ for that, then go ahead and ask, but be clear on what you are asking for - a NEW figure set for Poser, not 'versions of Mike 5 and Vicki 5' that aren't going to happen and can't happen unless SM decide to develop and integrate implementation of the DS4 joint system, sub-division system and file format (and a few other things) in Poser.

    So if DAZ were to start a product line of new figures for Poser, it would be a new, parallel line to M5/V5. Given that they haven't even started on any such thing, even if you ask and they decide to grant your request tomorrow, it would be starting this new line from scratch, and products wouldn't see the light of day for a long time. But frankly I see no sign that DAZ have any desire to develop and support any such parallel new Poser line, only continue support for V4/M4 as long as PAs wish to keep on making generation 4 products. while pressing ahead with the generation 5 - Genesis - line built on DS4, not Poser technologies.

  • StrangeFoxStrangeFox Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yes, DavidGB, that's what I am asking for. I should tell you that I have a degree in toy design and I do 3D modeling, etc. I understand the work involved. So let me be clear, I am asking DAZ to be loyal to all of those of us who have been loyal to them. I am asking DAZ to support all of those of us who have given them our money and been members for years and who still use Poser. Let's be really clear about this, this site WAS BUILT ON POSER CUSTOMERS.

    I still wish to be a customer. There is still money to be made from poser customers. I like DAZ and wish to remain a member. All I am asking for is the opportunity to do so. Am I such a bad guy for asking DAZ to offer me something that I can buy? Am I really so rotten for saying DAZ why don't you want my money? Many other companies create and support multiple formats, DAZ could if they wanted too.

    and once again, I have to agree, if this is the subject of endless debate, them maybe its something that should be addressed and not ignored.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 3,842
    edited May 2012

    And where would your idea leave us DS users, as far as I'm aware if they made a figure with the same technology as Genesis which worked in Poser it wouldn't work in DS.

    Post edited by scorpio on
  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 11,061
    edited December 1969

    Is something wrong with V4 or M4?

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited May 2012

    And where would your idea leave us DS users, as far as I'm aware if they made a figure with the same technology as Genesis which worked in Poser it wouldn't work in DS.

    But you would still have Genesis.

    Back to the OP......Daz has already stated that they will not be doing a V5/M5 for Poser. So like the rest of us Poser users, if you do not wish to use DS (or can't), you will just have to keep using the previous Gen figures or Poser figures.

    Post edited by Christen on
  • nightwolf1982nightwolf1982 Posts: 496
    edited December 1969

    Is something wrong with V4 or M4?

    Because they use the old poser rigging system (non-weight mapped), The joints on the Gen 4 don't bend very well. Their are some products to try and fix this though, as well as a weight-mapped V4 available.

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,272
    edited December 1969

    Please! do a version of mike 5 and Vicki 5 for those of us who still use Poser. I understand that they will not have all of the features of Genesis, but there is no reason why you can not do a Poser version too. I have been a loyal customer and platinum club member for many years and I have invested a lot of money (literally thousands of dollars ) with you building a library and now I feel totally abandoned.

    If I recall a post from the old forum correctly, it was stated that Smith Micro pulled the plug on Genesis support, not Daz, so you need to be badgering Smith Micro, not DAZ.
    Be well :-)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,956
    edited December 1969

    We don't need to point fingers, please. Adding full Genesis support in Poser would require several new features, which makes it non-trivial, though we may hope that now that the DSON specification is available some combination of Python scripts and calls to .dlls may make an reasonable approximation possible. However, it is not surprising if a developer felt unable to do all of that in the middle of the planned updates and should not be grounds for accusations or loaded wording.

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,272
    edited December 1969

    We don't need to point fingers, please. Adding full Genesis support in Poser would require several new features, which makes it non-trivial, though we may hope that now that the DSON specification is available some combination of Python scripts and calls to .dlls may make an reasonable approximation possible. However, it is not surprising if a developer felt unable to do all of that in the middle of the planned updates and should not be grounds for accusations or loaded wording.

    Apologies, Richard if I have ruffled feathers, that was not my intent, I had stayed out of the Daz vs Poser till now and will be stayng out of it in future. Be well :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    Also, you might want to pop over to RuntimeDNA and look for the weight mapped version of V4. I hear word that an M4 version is in the works! :-) Here is the link: http://www.runtimedna.com/WMV4.html

  • Super NewbSuper Newb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    Also, you might want to pop over to RuntimeDNA and look for the weight mapped version of V4. I hear word that an M4 version is in the works! :-) Here is the link: http://www.runtimedna.com/WMV4.html

    She actually looks very cool. Joints look great and it says clothes can be converted easily, and fit better. AND she is FREE! Hats off to the artists, looks like the answer to allot of questions. DAZ might ought to think about offering her in the store.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,583
    edited December 1969

    Trust me, I'll be picking her and M4 up when he hits their store. Right now I'm still playing with Genesis allot in my spare time and need to get my freebies finished up eventually! lol

  • Super NewbSuper Newb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    WM V4 is for Poser only. You must be one of those ambidexterous bi polar sorts of people that use both programs. I was going to start a sarcastic rant about how it wasn't available for Studio, and that just isn't fair and on and on... but I thought better of it, being the non trouble making, high minded sort of fellow I am. ;-)

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    Since Daz has made the decision to move Mike and Vicky into Genesis platform it would probably be too confusing to release Poser base figures with the name M5 and V5.... so maybe Daz can create new Poser base figures with new names... using all the latest Poser technology... something to energize Poser users like Genesis has done for Daz users.

  • Super NewbSuper Newb Posts: 0
    edited May 2012

    MrPoser said:
    Since Daz has made the decision to move Mike and Vicky into Genesis platform it would probably be too confusing to release Poser base figures with the name M5 and V5.... so maybe Daz can create new Poser base figures with new names... using all the latest Poser technology... something to energize Poser users like Genesis has done for Daz users.

    Have you looked at the WMV4 linked above? I don't know about "re-energizing", but it does have some of the coolest features of Genesis. I don't use Poser, but if I used both programs, I think it would be a hard decision whether to stay with Gen4 (using the WM figure), or change to Genesis. Not everyone is happy about having to re-invest in new figures, morphs, etc for Genesis. Sounds like the WMV4 answers allot of those complaints as you can use all your existing morphs, skins, and clothing, yet still get the better bending.

    EDIT: V4.5?

    Post edited by Super Newb on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Bottom line is Poser does not have the ability to support a figure like Genesis. It requires a high polygon figure to get the same result. Ten years ago I begged Curious Labs (who then owned Poser) to implement Subdivision Surfaces in Poser... they did it in the render engine, but never implemented true SDS. The problem is that they decided to lag behind the technology by ten lousy years (and COUNTING). DAZ, however, has managed to get it implemented in D|S4, and hopefully we'll get other stuff (dymanics? Better SSS?) implemented in D|S5...

    The problem is not DAZ. It's the guys controlling the development of Poser.

    I keep trying to tell you that's where the problem is, but nobody seems to want to listen.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,113
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Bottom line is Poser does not have the ability to support a figure like Genesis. It requires a high polygon figure to get the same result. Ten years ago I begged Curious Labs (who then owned Poser) to implement Subdivision Surfaces in Poser... they did it in the render engine, but never implemented true SDS. The problem is that they decided to lag behind the technology by ten lousy years (and COUNTING). DAZ, however, has managed to get it implemented in D|S4, and hopefully we'll get other stuff (dymanics? Better SSS?) implemented in D|S5...

    The problem is not DAZ. It's the guys controlling the development of Poser.

    I keep trying to tell you that's where the problem is, but nobody seems to want to listen.

    I remember reading a post on the old forums that came from one of the Daz developers regarding Genesis in Poser. Part of what he wrote said that Daz was helping SM to bring the Genesis platform to Poser, but for whatever reason SM pulled the plug on the project, or something to that effect. Daz is more than willing to help SM get the job done, but someone at SM needs to get the ball rolling.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 846
    edited June 2012

    Yes, DavidGB, that's what I am asking for. I should tell you that I have a degree in toy design and I do 3D modeling, etc. I understand the work involved. So let me be clear, I am asking DAZ to be loyal to all of those of us who have been loyal to them. I am asking DAZ to support all of those of us who have given them our money and been members for years and who still use Poser. Let's be really clear about this, this site WAS BUILT ON POSER CUSTOMERS.

    I still wish to be a customer. There is still money to be made from poser customers. I like DAZ and wish to remain a member. All I am asking for is the opportunity to do so. Am I such a bad guy for asking DAZ to offer me something that I can buy? Am I really so rotten for saying DAZ why don't you want my money? Many other companies create and support multiple formats, DAZ could if they wanted too.

    and once again, I have to agree, if this is the subject of endless debate, them maybe its something that should be addressed and not ignored.

    Hi StrangeFox. I understand what you are saying. Now, I do not have any inside info about DAZ3D's plans for Poser customers in the future, but I am guessing that they want to keep them happy as customers. No matter what products and services are offered to DAZ3D customers, the truth is, that from now on, Poser and DAZ Studio are just different programs. Daz3D is supportive of both, but the products made and sold for them will most likely be for either one or the other... or for Bryce... or Carrara... or whatever...

    Poser and Daz Studio may not be compatible anymore, but that is not the same thing as saying that Daz3D doesn't want to provide products to Poser customers. Please understand, the people here are not trying to dash your hopes, we are just trying to explain that BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio have changed the way they were doing things...and as they did this, they had to take different routes to give the customer the best it could offer ( on both sides)... it wasn't spiteful disreguard on either side... it's just the way it went...

    I know soooo many vendors that have tried to reassure customers they will continue to create for Poser, but then they say people have stopped buying what they offer, claiming it's not as cool as the stuff for Daz Studio.... it just isn't possible to make everybody happy all the time...

    but I do believe that even though that is probabally a true statement, that DAZ3D is trying really hard to do that anyway... they have had an INCREDIBLE run of bad luck... if they were a friend of ours, we might be more supportive with our own words and actions...

    Personally, I am grateful to them for the community they have created here and for the generosity they have always shown us in the past... I trust they will make things OK...

    Post edited by JasmineSkunk on
  • StrangeFoxStrangeFox Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    First let me say, I appreciate all of the input and the fact that for the most part people are trying to be "real" and have a discussion not just get nasty. Thank you.

    The issue I am having is that I have spent a lot of time and money for something DAZ has turned its back on. Its all well and good to say we want vendors to still support poser, but when DAZ quits making stuff for Poser and focuses its time and energy on a new platform, why would you expect vendors to support the old one? When vendors do come out with versions of new stuff for both Genesis and Poser, I almost always buy it (or at least the poser version). I will also say that if there were two roads to take, DAZ should have taken the one that stayed loyal to its loyal customers. I have spent over five thousand dollars at DAZ for God's sake, that should count for something.

    I am also seeing a general decline in the customer service I get from DAZ and I think that this is part of why I am so upset by the whole Poser/ DAZ studio thing. A great example of this is the platinum club vouchers. How do you not know that you are going to have a problem before you launch the site because your old vouchers won't work with your new system? and then when you do have a problem, do you drop an email to all of those of us who have been members for YEARS? No you expect us to dig out references in posts buried in a forum. This is a lousy way to do business and says a lot about the attitude of those in charge. When you realize that you have created a problem for loyal customers, you shouldn't wait until they come to you and ask what happened and then refer them to the forums, you should contact them and say "hey we are having a problem and we are working on it, sorry for the inconvenience." It would also free up a lot of help requests and help with the backlog that they are dealing with. Most of all it would tell customers that you care, something I don't seem to be seeing a lot of from DAZ right now. I am very disappointed.

  • graham jamesgraham james Posts: 41
    edited December 1969

    Daz3d do seem to have very poor communication skills sometimes, they also make some corporate decisions that leave many people wondering what they were thinking.
    BUT they have made Daz Studio a fantastic program, barring the odd bug or two (or more).
    They have also offered it free to anyone who wants it and I for one thank them for that.
    Daz Studio comes with default content, including Genesis. It is only right and proper that Daz should offer morphs etc. for its own default content. V5 and M5 are morphs for Daz default content.
    If I remember correctly Poser comes with default content, this is not available to Daz Studio users.
    If this default content is not up to the standard required then that is not the fault of Daz3d but the of developers of Poser.
    There are some great new features in Daz Studio which would not have been there if Daz had stuck to the old Poser way of doing things.
    I was a Poser user for many years but when I saw Genesis I had to jump ship. I uninstalled Poser to force myself to learn Studio.
    Funny thing is recently I had to reinstall Poser to accomplish a small task and I sat there staring at the screen for ages - I couldn't remember what to do.
    I know some people feel abandoned but at the end of the day the two programs have gone separate ways - the price of progress.

  • StrangeFoxStrangeFox Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I understand what you are saying sir and I am not discounting DAZ studio's benefits, but considering the way DAZ does things I have concerns that I will build another library and then have DAZ in a few years arbitrarily decide not to support that either. The issue here is not the quality or virtues of DAZ studio, but DAZ's lack of loyalty to customers that it built its business on. DAZ is not good about communication and can also be seriously lacking in customer service skills. Other sites don't necessarily have the same level of products, but their customer service is much better; Its insulting when you pay for a membership month after month and get a lower quality of service then I get from a site I have no membership with.

    Also, if I am going to invest the time in learning an entirely new program it will not be another second tier program like DAZ Studio or Poser it will be a first tier program like 3D max or something that is on the level of professionals.

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