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Completely new to Carrara and 3D, Badly Need “Where To Start” Advice
Posted: 14 August 2012 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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Ok, never said I was intelligent, I believe I may have been mispelling it as animator when looking before (was quite a while ago) red face
Google would give a lot of unrelated results for THAT!! tongue rolleye

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Posted: 14 August 2012 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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That’s certainly true, Wendy!  I had a quick look at it but it looks a bit limited if you already have and know Carrara (and some of the other tools that you use).

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Posted: 14 August 2012 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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evilproducer - 13 August 2012 02:49 PM

I’ll boil down my response up-front…


...The thing to remember, is that most artists have and use multiple tools…

...Most of what I’ve read in this thread so far is opinion and personal preference…

...Roygee and others also like Hexagon as a modeling application which is also fine…


...For some people, it’s all they’ll ever need, which isn’t meant to detract from them, but for others, myself included, it’s like hitting a ceiling. You want to go higher, but you can’t.


Evil, I failed to mention how much I appreciate your pleasantly detailed post.  Really good info and perspective.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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evilproducer - 13 August 2012 08:13 PM

To carry your analogy about driving a bit further:


At some point, you have to put down the manual, sit in the car and turn the key. It’s one thing to understand something at an intellectual level, but at some point you need to put what you think you know into practice. You can read about steering a car, but how does it feel to steer? There’s no way to know until you do, and you’re bound to over correct or under correct until you get the “feel” for it. Like cars, each piece of software has a different feel to them. I say again, download the trials for the software you’re considering and try a few things. They don’t have to be camera ready. No one is judging except yourself.


In other words, being a n00b may not be desirable, and a stupid n00b even less so, but like it or not, unless you actually try and put into practice some of the things you’ve been studying, you’ll always be some kind of n00b. wink


I would also add, that ignorance is not stupidity. Stupid is forever, ignorance can be corrected.


Again, another good post.  As I had mention before, I have been using the software to following along with tutorials, if nothing more than to get my bearings on where everything is located in the software. The order in which I’m proceeding is learning what everything does first, and then learning how to do it properly after.  I’m probably failing at clarifying that.  I am in fact using the software, not just asking questions.  My questions are cart-before-the-horse in many respects, but they are not being asked without having already loaded Carrara and playing around in it.

And you are entirely correct about noobness and stupidity.  wink

 

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Posted: 14 August 2012 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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wendy♥catz - 13 August 2012 11:02 PM

I have learnt everything I do in this world by diving straight in, then looking at manuals. tongue rolleye
prob why my Ikea furniture falls apart and has extra alan key screws over rolleyes
while I found parts of the C5pro manual helpful when I fist installed C5pro 3 years ago, I must admit, I really read or watch any tutorials except out of curiosity, not to learn so much.
Certainly have never bought any.
at least not for Carrara
Got the figures, characters and avatars Daz book for the disc content, just pretty pictures otherwise.
bought Blender for dummies but still cannot get the hang of it tongue wink
but for me it is just fun, reading tutorials is work.
I just play with software like others do games.


Well, I’ve seen some pretty cool things on your web site, so no matter how misguidedly inferior you may feel, I’m pretty impressed.  Looking forward to producing a fraction of the things I’ve seen you crank out.  Seriously.


And yes, I’m diving in and playing around to some degree, but I guess I’m just the type that does so a little more methodically.  grin

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Posted: 14 August 2012 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 13 August 2012 11:05 PM

In all the years I’ve been visiting here, I have never once had anyone agree with me about picking up a book on the basics and reading it. Not once. I don’t even recall anyone ever asking about books on fundamentals. I have heard people occasionally/rarely refer to the Jeremy Birn book on lighting, but that’s it. And has anyone actually read that book? I mean from one cover to the other?

There are always a very long list of arguments why people should play with the software first. I also don’t recall ever having anyone even ask about books on basics. It’s always about the software. I don’t recall anyone really even discussing basics. It’s always about the software. Although occasionally people have to venture into the dreaded discussions of the basic concepts, but it usually seems pretty painful for folks when that happens.

But how often does someone recommend to others that they study the basics, and help them to do that? You guys who have been here for years, what do you think? Be honest, how often do you see that? 

Yes, some will say this is a software forum, and of course that’s true. But that doesn’t mean you can’t discuss related stuff, especially when it’s so important. Heck, people discuss stuff as unrelated to Carrara, and even 3D software in general, as you can imagine, but basic concepts aren’t appropriate I guess.

But clearly I will never win that argument.

OF COURSE you use the software as a tool while you’re learning. You learn the concepts, then apply them. Nobody would ever argue with that.

But NOBODY talks about the other part. Ever. And I guarantee, absolutely, that there are a large percentage of people who have been doing this for years here, many years, even some who are considered by others as experts, who have never picked up a book on basics. They have been setting translucency on their materials, and don’t know what translucency is. They don’t know basic color theory, or basic lighting, or what “UV” means…and on and on. Instead they’ll argue about why they don’t need to worry about that intellectual stuff, because people who worry about that kind of stuff are “poindexters”.

I suppose we could take a poll and see how many people actually looked online for a book on basics as I suggested, or even actually ordered one, or even actually started reading one. But I suspect we already know the answer.

None of this is to be critical, it is, for the most part, all factual. And everyone knows it’s factual. And that’s fine if people here want to focus on software because that’s what they really enjoy. But let’s be honest and call it what it is, and not act like everyone has already mastered (or even studied) the basics and just needs some software to make it all happen.

Now, before everyone goes running to the archives to find individual exceptions in an effort to prove me wrong when I say “EVER” or “NEVER”, (thereby invalidating everything I say…), let me say I am certain there are some exceptions. But we all know that, in general, what I’m saying is absolutely true. On a scale that ranges from “Hunger for Basics” on one end to “Hostility for Basics” on the other, I think we would all agree that this forum is closer to the “Hostility” end, don’t you think? Be honest…....   

Well, I’m not one to push for hostilities, as you mention.  It gets people nowhere and it’s just not worth my time.  Life’s too short and this ain’t no dress rehearsal.  Same with those who offer nothing but the same old “RTFM” advice that you find on Linux forums (the operating system for the socially impaired).  I get more actual help out reading the back of the box than from those types.

If nobody reads the books you recommend (and have admitted to not reading yourself in one instance), and it has you all bent out of shape about it (that really was quite a diatribe), then I think you might be taking things a little too hard/seriously, especially for a software product support forum for a product that is really used for producing nothing more than amateur hobby art.  It’s just not worth the blown blood vessels.

I take your advice to be wise, of course, but I’m also taking it with a grain of asbestos.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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tbwoq - 14 August 2012 12:22 AM

Hi bobh.

Carraras modeling workflow is mainly setup with integration to the rest of the program for building scenes and animations. The spline, metaball and Assemble room(which could be considered a modeler) along with various modifiers to objects, can be animated in the timeline. The tree, landscape, formula editors(etc.) are also types of modelers.

In Carrara you can vertex model directly in the scene(Assemble room vertex mode) for spacing and setup, or translate model parts and groups in the Assemble room to form other models. Note; manipulating a model in the Assemble room does not affect the vertex mode and most editors. For instance; a cube transformed into a sphere using the Assemble room features, remains a cube in the vertex mode. So in a way it could be viewed as two models in one instance toward some animations.

Carraras overall modeling is powerful and has many of the same tools as others, but imho, theres no comparing it to a dedicated modeler like Hexagon, Modo etc. These are far better choices and features, if modeling is the main focus.

If you wanted, you could model a V4/5 mesh from start to finish in Carrara, though V4 was created in Modo(iirc). Im guessing it all depends on what modeler the user is most comfortable with. I currently use Carrara and its modeling exclusively for all my projects. In my 3DCG program experience, Carrara is by far the easiest I’ve used with regard to features.

——

Skimming through past replies in this topic,...Im not sure why Carrara hasn’t had a short film like Blenders Big Buck Bunny/Sintel, even though Carrara is easily capable and everything is there to create one(including network rendering with Grid sold here etc.).

Hope this helps.


THANK YOU, for yet another fantastic and helpful post.  Good point about the modelers, I’ve been hearing this often enough to compeltely take it as gospel, which is why I have largely chosen to learn Hexagon.  And I cannot tell you how fascinated and actually “happy” I am to see someone brag about using the Carrara modeler exclusively - everyone seems to bash it pretty hard around here.  This is a refreshing post because of that, thanks.  grin


Consider yourself on my list for being a go-to for any questions I may come up with about Carrara’s modeling room.  :-D

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Posted: 14 August 2012 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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wendy♥catz - 13 August 2012 11:37 PM

the only time I get hostile is when you attack someone like Richardchaos for posting too many questions in too many threads
it is a software forum
he is asking questions about the software
while others are still reading books etc on how to do it for fear of asking a dumb question
he just fires away
and
Makes awesome 3D models and animations
which I think is kinda the point tongue rolleye
not sounding all cluey and impressive on the forum rolleyes
please do not lock thread mods, the OP wants help, if you lock it he will not be able to read how and he have to actually try the software and usk stoooopid questions like I do!!!


BINGO

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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wendy♥catz - 14 August 2012 10:13 AM

ok, that is the anim8or forum but where do you download anim8or? I have looked before and cannot find it long face

sorry Wendy th elink is on that home page Phil posted.
.97 is the latest version

http://www.anim8or.com/main/index.html

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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Back on topic, I have my next annoying question:

Animation of Water/Fire/Fluids. 

Is it possible to create semi-realistic fluid effects like water trickling down rocks in some nature scenery?  An fire effects for that matter?  I know that’s bigtime effects that are typically found in high-dollar products, but Carrara bills itself as a capable physics-aware app and really toots its horn along these lines.  Can Carrara pull it off fluids to some acceptable degree?  Or even at all? 

To be clear, I’m totally willing to dump money on add-ons for anything (and even prefer this when possible), but fluids are important to me - or at least soon will be hopefully.

I did come across something called FastFX, which did have some nice looking fire effects.  They aren’t particle/physics engine aware, and really only a few of them have any degree of realism to their appearance/motion.  Though a few are included, no usable water effects to speak of.  I really like how the fire was done, though, so that’s why I bought it - I’ll need that.

Just wondering if anything is actually available in this regard, some secret trick, resource, or add-on you gurus are aware of and would offer to share.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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bobh


I;m sorry if you don’t realise that it was on topic.
For the water queston - have a search for McGuiver’s posts on the old forum and you will find what you need.
Walk before run.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 04:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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bobh - Carrara does not have a fluid effects engine and I am unaware of a plugin which will do this. You can sort of get some fluid effects using particles, but it is not true fluids.  Depending on what you want to achieve, you can fake certain effects with things like animated textures.

Just a comment on a point you made earlier, Carrara is indeed used a lot for hobby art, but is also used for more professional work too. I am only a part time freelancer, but have used it for applications as diverse as a music video, preparation of course materials for university courses, product visualisation and artwork for trading cards.  I am sure there a lot of professional and semi-professional 3d artists who use Carrara for paid work, not just hobby art.  I’m not sure this kind of work gets the profile it should - it would give users more confidence in Carrara as a bona fide professional 3d app.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 148 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 13 August 2012 11:05 PM

In all the years I’ve been visiting here, I have never once had anyone agree with me about picking up a book on the basics and reading it. Not once. I don’t even recall anyone ever asking about books on fundamentals. I have heard people occasionally/rarely refer to the Jeremy Birn book on lighting, but that’s it. And has anyone actually read that book? I mean from one cover to the other? .....


Joe, not sure if this is in response to my post, but I never meant to imply that research isn’t useful. My point was, that at some point you have to quit analyzing and agonizing over every little bit of minutia and just get busy working with the software. Tutorials that are included with the training materials are a good start as they are designed to help the student get practice, and to illustrate the principals of the area being taught.


My concern was that from what I was reading it gave me the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that the OP was getting bogged down in worrying about the work-flow, the software choice, etc. without really getting in and trying things out.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 149 ]
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bobh - 14 August 2012 02:15 PM

Back on topic, I have my next annoying question:

Animation of Water/Fire/Fluids. 

Is it possible to create semi-realistic fluid effects like water trickling down rocks in some nature scenery?  An fire effects for that matter?  I know that’s bigtime effects that are typically found in high-dollar products, but Carrara bills itself as a capable physics-aware app and really toots its horn along these lines.  Can Carrara pull it off fluids to some acceptable degree?  Or even at all?

IMO, it’s all a question of quality. The higher the quality you want, the more you need to pay, and the more you need to look outside of Carrara. IMO, Carrara’s fire effects are useless, as well as its water/fluids. Unless you want to simulate a nice calm lake or something. But if you’re okay with an extremely low quality result, or just want to play with software, then Carrara can do it all, and will give you hours of enjoyment learning how to make something that looks nothing like fire or water.

Instead I’d recommend a far superior, and inexpensive alternative, especially for fire, although it can also be used for fluids. Obtain some video footage of fire and composite it into your animations. Either by making your own video, or downloading a freebie. The big downside to this alternative is that it’s NOT a software solution. However, it will give you the opportunity to learn how to use compositing software.

Another alternative that will give you higher quality, and is free, and is also another opportunity to play with more software, is to dlownload Blender and learn how to generate smoke and fire. It’s got a very nice smoke simulator, and you can texture the smoke to look like fire.

If you want to go for the big money, high quality effects, get RealFlow for fluids, or something like FumeFX for smoke and fire. Not sure of their latest status in terms of import/export to Carrara, but I’m sure you can work something.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 10:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 150 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 14 August 2012 06:05 PM
bobh - 14 August 2012 02:15 PM

Back on topic, I have my next annoying question:

Animation of Water/Fire/Fluids. 

Is it possible to create semi-realistic fluid effects like water trickling down rocks in some nature scenery?  An fire effects for that matter?  I know that’s bigtime effects that are typically found in high-dollar products, but Carrara bills itself as a capable physics-aware app and really toots its horn along these lines.  Can Carrara pull it off fluids to some acceptable degree?  Or even at all?

IMO, it’s all a question of quality. The higher the quality you want, the more you need to pay, and the more you need to look outside of Carrara. IMO, Carrara’s fire effects are useless, as well as its water/fluids. Unless you want to simulate a nice calm lake or something. But if you’re okay with an extremely low quality result, or just want to play with software, then Carrara can do it all, and will give you hours of enjoyment learning how to make something that looks nothing like fire or water.

Instead I’d recommend a far superior, and inexpensive alternative, especially for fire, although it can also be used for fluids. Obtain some video footage of fire and composite it into your animations. Either by making your own video, or downloading a freebie. The big downside to this alternative is that it’s NOT a software solution. However, it will give you the opportunity to learn how to use compositing software.

Another alternative that will give you higher quality, and is free, and is also another opportunity to play with more software, is to dlownload Blender and learn how to generate smoke and fire. It’s got a very nice smoke simulator, and you can texture the smoke to look like fire.

If you want to go for the big money, high quality effects, get RealFlow for fluids, or something like FumeFX for smoke and fire. Not sure of their latest status in terms of import/export to Carrara, but I’m sure you can work something.

I’ve looked at FumeFX, I believe it’s for Maya and 3DSMAX.  VERY expensive, $1k I believe.  I came across something called FastFX for Carrara, which has some usable fire effects, which will probably suit my needs.  Sure wish water was a doable thing, though.

Thaks for the good info, it just confirms what I was already starting to assume.  This is fine, of course, but you never know until you ask, especially about higher-end effects and thngs that get into the physics arena.

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