OT - Font Problem :

pumecopumeco Posts: 0
edited July 2012 in Bryce Discussion

I installed a new font on Windows 7 yesterday (Helvetica) and it seems to be effecting the font used on the DAZ website. I get this awfully bad tiny font with outrageously uneven spacing, and the thing is, the font I'm getting on the DAZ site isn't even related to the font I installed, it's a different font. Just to be sure it was down to the font installation, I deleted the font and the DAZ website font went back to normal. When I reinstalled the font, it screwed up the DAZ website font again.


Interesting to note is that it's only effecting the DAZ website, not others, but I still can't figure out why installing a font that isn't being used by the website is being altered by installing a totally different font.


Any ideas of what's going on here, something I've done wrong or perhaps an issue with the site?

Post edited by pumeco on

Comments

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    PS: I just noticed with the preview that italics are using the normal italics font but the rest of it is screwed-up.

  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 10,869
    edited December 1969

    What web browser are you using? Can you do a screenshot showing what the dad site looks like with font installed?

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    See difference between attached images:
    .

    With.jpg
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    Without.jpg
    622 x 698 - 281K
  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Sorry Miss Bad Wolf, I cross-posted with you, I'm using Chrome.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,379
    edited December 1969

    Apparently a known problem with that particular font.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/2646/#34220

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Cheers Pam, but damn, can't anything go right?


    I mean I came to the conclusion that I need to give up on 3D quite a while ago because nothing seems to do what it's supposed to do - just a total waste of ten years of my life as far as I'm concerned. But bloody hell, it's getting a bit much when something as simple as even a font is an issue as well. Damn thing, I mean for crying out loud, it's Helvetica, probably the most respected font in existence - and even that causes issues!


    Pain in the f*cking arse, all of it.


    Do you know whether DAZ plan to bring back the old font and smileys? - If they did then maybe it would fix it for all of us who have Helvetica installed (and I'm guessing that's quite a few of us). The new forum font is less legible than the old one anyway, and so are the smileys. I'd appreciate it if you could point this issue out to the web team because the forum looks pathetic when Helvetica is installed, and I can't uninstall it because I need it.


    DAZ, please install the font and smileys from the old forum because both were infinitely better than what we have now. The font was more legible and the smileys gave a better impression of emotion (the new smileys have to rank as some of the worst I've ever seen - and that's saying something).

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited July 2012

    I think if you try a different brand of Helvetica, you won't have a problem with it (if indeed your problem is the same as the one I had).
    As a graphic designer, Helvetica is quite essential for my system and I have many different versions running on my Mac.

    It was only that particular font file that cause me the problem and it wasn't restricted to the Daz forum/website.
    It also affected my iPhoto menus (though no other Apple software that I was aware of) and I think it was more a problem with the font itself than it's compatibility with Daz.

    On a more positive note, it was that problem that first got me back and involved with the forums again after an absence of five months or so. :-)

    Post edited by Dave Savage on
  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Welcome back, and yup, that does sound like it could be the problem, but if you are having the same trouble even on a totally different OS, can you tell me which version you have so that I can avoid it?


    As far as I'm aware, the official one is made by Linotype but I'm not sure what my version is. Linotype want thirty quid for each variant, and even if I paid for the few variants I need, there's no guarantee it would solve it and I can't imagine them refunding if it screws up.


    Did you get your Helvetica from Linotype?

  • cris333cris333 Posts: 107
    edited July 2012

    I didn't noticed that i don't have Helvetica font on my system lol and i'm doing fine so far :)
    My fonts folder have almost 300mb of fonts mostly renamed (except Adobe fonts which is not recommended to modify or rename) so i know the theme to be used for ,such as Love,Hand,Asian,Persian..etc :-)
    I have Font Lab studio 5 and i can rename my fonts or create new ones as i want :-)
    Feel free to delete or simply remove the font from your system and save it somewhere rared on computer, or you can go to your web browser and set a different font to display on web :) (in Chrome, the default fonts can be changed in Settings>Show advanced settings...>Web Content , click on "Customize fonts...")
    My Chrome is set by default on Times New Roman font for Standard font and Serif font; i guess your chrome will switch to Arial or Tahoma or Times New Roman , fonts very commonly used on the web and you should have these if you delete Helvetica :-).
    If you really like/want/have good old memories about this font and it's broken too and it's not copyrighted, try to rar it and add as attachment and i will try to use auto-fix(repair) tool or to convert it in true type if you want :-) (im on 32-bit system idk if for 64bit will work)
    You can find lots of fonts on websites, some are really cool , some looks like are made in rush lol but i can't complain since it's free :-).
    Anyway feel free to delete it if u want, it's not the end of the world without a font and also Helvetica it's not an important system font for windows (VGA fonts are very important-do not delete those) but for Mac it is, http://indesignsecrets.com/removing-nonessential-system-fonts-in-leopard.php or http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html but in leopard.
    If you need more fonts, CG graphic designers definitely does, you may try to visit abstractfonts.com (+13000 free fonts)
    You can see this article too related to what you should NOT delete http://www.scrapjazz.com/topics/Computer_Center/Fonts/43.php
    Adobe PDF docs embeds(attach-compress) the fonts used in typing by the writer into the pdf file, this is why we can see cool fonts which even are not isntalled on our systems.

    Have fun, good luck and happy rendering :)

    fonts3.jpg
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    fonts2.jpg
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    fonts1.jpg
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    Post edited by cris333 on
  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Thanks for that, Cris, much appreciated :-)


    I'm on PC, but no worries about the system fonts, I'm always careful not to touch those. I found a free unbranded version of Helvetica so maybe that's why it's screwing up for me. I don't need it for system reasons, I just like the font and need it for design reasons. If I knew for sure the Linotype version worked properly, I'd be more prepared to buy that one. The problem is with the unbranded stuff there's no way of knowing which author it is, and therefore, which version to avoid.


    Thanks for the tips, I'll rename it and reinstall it, see if that fixes anything and let you know how I get on.

    Post edited by pumeco on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,379
    edited July 2012

    Well I don't know about you, but I would tend to avoid a website with those particular numerals in the title, but I may be being paranoid because I once got dome malware that was lingering on a hithertoo trusted website, just waiting to be triggerd by typing in those numerals in a password I had been given to access a download on the site. The person wh sent me the passwiord had his entire portfolio corrupted as well, because of using the numerals instead of saying sept 2011 in the pssword.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    pumeco said:
    Welcome back, and yup, that does sound like it could be the problem, but if you are having the same trouble even on a totally different OS, can you tell me which version you have so that I can avoid it?


    As far as I'm aware, the official one is made by Linotype but I'm not sure what my version is. Linotype want thirty quid for each variant, and even if I paid for the few variants I need, there's no guarantee it would solve it and I can't imagine them refunding if it screws up.


    Did you get your Helvetica from Linotype?

    Sadly I don't have the font file anymore as I deleted it completely so it wouldn't accidentally get put back on.
    It was a font I got supplied along with a job I was working on and if I remember rightly, it was only the 'Helvetica Black' file that was at fault (but I still got rid of the whole family).

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Well I don't know about you, but I would tend to avoid a website with those particular numerals in the title, but I may be being paranoid because I once got dome malware that was lingering on a hithertoo trusted website, just waiting to be triggerd by typing in those numerals in a password I had been given to access a download on the site. The person wh sent me the passwiord had his entire portfolio corrupted as well, because of using the numerals instead of saying sept 2011 in the pssword.

    I use this website for some cool free fonts: dafont.com. It's always been reliable for me.
    font911 is also reputable though I haven't used it as much.

    You don't need to sign in or use passwords for either site. :-)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,379
    edited December 1969

    yes, as I said I could be being paranoid, but the experience with another site, and a password with 911 in it has made me very cautious.

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    @Pam
    You do have your uses sometimes, and I have to say you're quite right. Dumb as it sounds I never really took notice of the title of the website (even when I posted the link). I just found it on Google and boomarked it because it never forced me to sign-up or anything, seems like a nice enough site to be honest. I haven't got any malware from it, but I just noticed the licence says "Conditionally free (For legal owners)". I mean what the hell is that supposed to mean if it's a legal download? If it were not free then why would someone download their version if they are already a legal owner? Surely they would have a copy from the original source.


    I don't know what they mean by that, but like I said, screw it - I'll just have to buy it from Linotype, and if it doesn't work, I'll be getting a refund whether they like it or not. Anyway, I've removed the link from my post, just in case, and have deleted the font from my system. I'll need the font for commercial use sooner or later, so I'd rather have the original than a clone anyway.


    @TheSavage
    Interestingly, the website you pointed out does not contain Helvetica, and as the original Helvetica certainly isn't free, that's probably a good sign for the website you pointed out - makes me think it's an honest website - cheers.

    Post edited by pumeco on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Yes, I believe that dafont.com contains free to use uploads made by font enthusiasts rather than reproducing already copyrighted fonts.
    It's a great place to pick up unusual and often quite unique fonts... though as with all font sites, there are a lot that are not well designed too.

  • cris333cris333 Posts: 107
    edited July 2012

    got your link, i hope i got the same "Helvetica Regular" as you did, to open in font editor ; code 4864
    i'm not an expert but from my experience with the font editor i can tell you that :

    * The unicode range of the common glyphs are same with the most used unicode MS Windows 1252 Western (ANSI) and the Adobe Standards which is perfect : from 0021 to 007E
    * There is a copyright title but not additional content text : "© 1990-91 Apple Computer Inc. © 1981 Linotype AG © 1990-91 Type Solutions Inc."
    but this can faked-anyone can type anything..
    * Last (additional note) date of creation : 1970 (lol i guess the original creator is dead already )
    * The last glyphs from 2219 to F002 are similar with official helvetica of lynotype.com including the apple emblem.
    which makes me think this font it have official glyphs too.The middle range glyphs are not matching with the official helvetica light STD.
    * The metric size of the glyphs is huge (Adobe Garamont font has the size of the "C" glyph with 700 on metric scale but on your Helvetica the "C" glyph is 1200 , some are 1500 or even 1800 such as "W")
    which is rare and uncommon but i've seen big fonts over the internet to download..

    I think your displaying problem was related to the spacing and/or resizing these huge glyphs
    The Savage64's font problem is more like unicode issue , for example at the 0041 that helvetica black doesn't have "A" , could have a "ş"or "]"

    Helvetica font styles costs 34 euros on lynotype.com
    Helvetica ----//------- costs 29 usd on Adobe.com
    Before to buy i suggest you write an email to customer support to make a test with the specific font on a specific website where you had issues.
    good luck :-)
    edit:the name of a site doesn't scare me to much , the content is important lol.i didn't got any phishing or whatever malware alerts from zone alarm or browser from that font website :-).My hosts file is 1mb , filled with blacklisted websites or ads websites .Even if i infect my pc i can reinstal windows anytime , haha ,important to me is not to burn physically my pc when visiting a website lol .the only sad part is i have to reinstall all aplications again :-) ..i have all rared backups and app installed on D and E ,and i have the original CD/DVD with the drivers for hardware, haha so i can clean C anytime :).Yes, sounds like my pc got infected some time ago , and i got experience for red alerts lol :_), I rember when i got a nasty virus few years ago, and not even Avira could help me to get rid of it.

    font-pic.jpg
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    Post edited by cris333 on
  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Thanks for that, Cris, you really know your font stuff!


    Good to know Adobe are cheaper (that makes a change), but I just checked Adobe for the fonts and can't seem to find them.
    Do you have a link to where the fonts are listed for sale?

    Post edited by pumeco on
  • cris333cris333 Posts: 107
    edited December 1969

    sure , here it is Helvetica STD (Standard) http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=1767
    or the main adobe fonts page http://www.adobe.com/type/ to navigate and search for categories,alphabetical order..etc.

    How did i find it ? easy..i typed in google search "adobe fonts" :-) or adobe helvetica.

    first links displayed on google search are usually official, most visited, or highly recommended by people or google team :)

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the links, and that's odd, because I searched Helvetica even on the Adobe site and it kept returning no results!


    I was also looking into the "Adobe Creative Cloud" as I notice it gives access to all the fonts. I started a thread about it in The Commons but wasn't happy about what they're doing with the pricing in England. I won't go over it in this thread, needless to say I'd rather pay a little extra and buy it direct from Linotype than support @ssholes like Adobe.


    Here's the thread in case you're curious:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/4915/

  • cris333cris333 Posts: 107
    edited July 2012

    sorry to hear that, well , life in the UK it is known around the world as being very expensive , with even insane prices when comes about a house in the center of London for example.
    My personal top on prices for first 3 countries in EU would be :
    1.UK
    2. Germany
    3.France
    ...
    but thats because of the salary incomings too, so you can't compare Serbia for example with UK.Buying a house in UK by a normal serbian employee would cost the saved salaries of that serbian in 20 or 50 lifetimes.

    this is in real but on online shopping many websites applies the IP location for the prices adjustments/VAT/or convert.The IP locator it is used also when some websites wants to block a country or on sharing websites to limit the download from an ip.
    Something similar to IP locator it is also applied to DVDs , known as DVD region.
    In other words , they see you that you are in UK when you buy , but to trick or test to see the difference there is a method ..Changing IP to another country ("Hide my IP" does this).Something similar to this, applied by many east-european countries companies too in real, to trick or to have to pay less VAT to the gov., is the "Malta paradise" method.If i'm correct the VAT is just 3 or 4 % , so don't be surprised when you hear that a company has the real office building in Czeck Republic but the virtual office or registering is in Malta.Malta is a paradise for investors or companies.Because they'll pay 4% to the Malta gov instead of paying 20 or 30 or 15% to their country.

    Well, about the Adobe products..Adobe is a brand and every product sold there have included another , let's say 5 or 10% to the price just because is a brand.If you buy a simple bottle from adobe may cost you 15 usd but if you buy same bottle sold by a normal shop the price should be more cheaper.

    If you really need to buy something online, try the resellers/retails too.See for example fonts packs on Amazon :
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/188-6055287-3553721?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=fonts

    Keep in mind that some adobe fonts you might already have them installed, if you purchased Adobe Photoshop CS, which it comes with a font pack too.
    There are hundreds of fonts which looks similar to Helvetica , i don't have this font and im ok so far but if you really need it , i wish you good luck on shopping and be careful when you buy, to see how much safe is that website to input your personal data.

    Edit : i looked again on that 911 website and it does have official fonts too.Something similar to this there is a website with official .dlls to download , in case of emergency or in case you need a .dll to fix a windows error.I used that site when i was getting long time ago an error about a missing .dll in computer (mostly from an antivirus cleaning) and the application couldn't initialize (something like a missing or wrong install of a microsoft C ++ let's say 2005 library).The copyright specified was assuming that you own a genuine windows or something like that in order to download a .dll file.I think 911 fonts is same but it is with fonts not .dll files from windows.Let's say you delete by mistake Times New Roman font ..Where do you go ? You'll probably search on google to download this font and google might display this website in the list of the searching results :-)

    Post edited by cris333 on
  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Thanks Cris, some interesting stuff there .


    I'm aware of the price of housing and such, you bet, which is why I won't be buying one in England. And as for Amazon, yup, I use Amazon all the time, it's my favourite retailer.


    Regards the IP thing, I don't use those and would never use one for purchasing either. I know how they work, but the thing is I'd eventually want to use the software commercially, and if I paid the US Dollar rate through masking locale, Adobe could turn around and tell me that my licence is effectively void. If I could pay in US Dollars without doing anything like that, I would do so because there's nothing illegal about paying in US dollars for a product. It's only the assholes at Adobe that are forcing the purchasers in England to purchase in UK currency, presumably from a UK website.


    The way they'll justify all this bull is that they have an office in the UK, and that's what causes the requirement for them to charge the VAT. That's why they won't let England-based customers pay on the US site in dollars, because if they did, we would be paying the US office of Adobe and would not be liable for the VAT. It's all perfectly worked out in this country to screw us over, always has been.


    I cannot wait to leave this place.


    Anyway, no worries, I'm not buying an Adobe product. I'm lucky in that after the last atrociously performing piece of shit I bought from them (the Elements 10 bundle), I was able to sell it for more than I paid for it (I got it cheap from Amazon). I actually made a small profit out of Adobe rather than the other way around. With Adobe's attitude, that's the way it's going to stay ...


    Me winning, them losing *FINGER TO ADOBE SMILEY*

    Post edited by pumeco on
  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 265
    edited December 1969

    pumeco said:
    It's only the assholes at Adobe that are forcing the purchasers in England to purchase in UK currency, presumably from a UK website.


    The way they'll justify all this bull is that they have an office in the UK, and that's what causes the requirement for them to charge the VAT. That's why they won't let England-based customers pay on the US site in dollars, because if they did, we would be paying the US office of Adobe and would not be liable for the VAT. It's all perfectly worked out in this country to screw us over, always has been.


    No, it's EU law. A real doozie of a law that would probably have led to hot war in previous eras, and ought to have led to a trade war by now in my opinion.

    If an EU citizen buys a tangible good (a camera, for example) from outside the EU, then the customs and excise authority (or agent) of the citizen's country will intercept the item at the port of entry and then charge the citizen VAT (and likely other duties) before collection or delivery. This is quite normal - all countries in the world apply taxes and/or customs duty on physical imports to some degree.

    But digital downloads and services offered a new challenge to the tax collectors. There is no way to intercept, and thus no way to collect. So, from 1st July 2003, a digital services directive (Directive 2002/38/EC) came into effect, tightening up somewhat vague arrangements. This requires (and I'm not kidding here) non-EU businesses (such as US businesses) selling digital goods and services to EU based customers to register with tax authorities in the EU nations and then collect VAT from EU customers and hand it over to said EU nation authorities - along with relevant accounts.

    So businesses in sovereign countries are required to disadvantage themselves and some of their customers by acting as unpaid tax collectors on behalf of a group of foreign governments.

    Of course, any red-blooded sovereign-nation business with no physical presence whatsoever in the EU can rightly ignore these foreign regulations and invite these "authorities" to sod off and collect their own taxes.

    But any sovereign-nation business that has or intends to have some physical presence in the EU (exporting tangible goods as well as digital, or owning shops, etc) is vulnerable to legal action against its EU interests and so will be pressured into compliance. That's why Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, etc, charge EU VAT to EU customers for digital goods and services purchased outside the EU. They would very much prefer to not charge, collect and forward the VAT, I can assure you.

    Note that non-EU businesses can opt to register for compliance with Directive 2002/38/EC in one EU country (instead of every country) and then all EU customers pay the VAT rate of that one country for those businesses' digital goods and services. Hence if Len buys an iPod (har har har) online from the Apple UK webstore he pays VAT at 20% (UK rate), but if he buys some songs for it from iTunes he pays VAT at 23% (Rep. of Ireland rate).


    It all sucks - by design.

    Useful summary:
    http://www.rkgconsulting.com/e-commerceinternet-retail/vat-issues/vat-digital-services-or-downloadable-products/

    Directive 2002/38/EC:
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2002:128:0041:0044:EN:PDF

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for those, Peter, although between all the legal banter, it's still pretty much the way I already saw it.


    And it doesn't get Adobe off the line either. Adobe are an American company headquartered in America, and while location of the headquarters has no bearing on the way the system works, it was Adobe's decision to open-up an office in England, and had they not done that, we would not be paying the VAT, because as you said, they could pretty much tell them to do their own tax collecting.


    I know for a fact that having an office in England is what puts us under VAT, because exactly the same thing happened with Second Life. There was I big shit-storm started over that one. One minute we're paying the same as the Americans, next minute we're getting stung for VAT. Of course, the reason we suddenly came under VAT was because Linden had opened an office in England.


    Second Life is an online business where all the servers, even now, are located in America. No one could get a valid reason out of Linden for opening an office in England, because as far as I'm concerned, there was no reason. The only thing that was achieved by opening that office in England is that we suddenly get charged VAT, whereas before, there was no requirement for it.


    On the last page of that PDF you uploaded, it states "Done by Brussels".
    The word "Done" being the operative word there I think.

  • pumecopumeco Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Can't believe I forgot this part ...


    _ PJF _ said:
    Hence if Len buys an iPod (har har har) online from the Apple UK webstore he pays VAT at 20% (UK rate) ...Har bloody har, that was a horrible thing to say.

    _ PJF _ said:
    ... but if he buys some songs for it from iTunes he pays VAT at 23% (Rep. of Ireland rate).
    And that was even more horrible than suggesting I might have bought an iPod.

    It all sucks - by design.


    Are we talking about the iPod here, or were you reffering to VAT and the legalised corruption?

    Either way, you're missing out on all the iPod wisecracks:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/1643/P105

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