Digital Art Zone

 
   
2 of 4
2
Carrara and Marvelous Designer
Posted: 21 July 2012 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  83
Joined  2003-10-09
PhilW - 21 July 2012 06:48 AM

Yes it is a very cool program!

To get different shader areas, set them up as different pieces of cloth in MD.  You can select the pattern pieces you need and make them a different material, which then exports as a separate shader area in Carrara.

That’s what I usually do when making stuff for Poser: just using different colors on the different pieces;  that’s all that’s needed to make a new material zone on export from MD.  But, the material zones are usually just numbers on export, so I rename them in UVMapper to something more descriptive.

 

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  83
Joined  2003-10-09

Also, just spotted a previous question: How to change the default (starting) avatar)...
From the MD team here’s the lowdown on the how-to:
—————————————————————————
Find the file named     Marvelous.prj

Default location is in C:\Program Files\Marvelous Designer 2

open the Marvelous.prj in a note pad and look for the line
body: Model\\Avatar\\woman_west\\woman_west.DAE

you will need to change that to your V4 model like
body: Model\\Avatar\\woman_west\\V4.DAE

Put your V4 model in the Avatar folder using the Collada format such as   V4.DAE

then it would be the line in the default would be
body: Model\\Avatar\\woman_west\\V4.DAE

——————————————————————————
Personally:
I keep a separate folder with ready-made starting pose Obj files for most of the major figures in two poses:  One is a straight T-pose (arms out, legs together)  to use for shirts, and other upper torso clothing.  The second is what I call a Split_T pose, with the legs at a 10 degree spread each, to use for pants and such.  Doesn’t take much time to simply click on Load Obj to pop in a new avatar to work with.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 04:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
PhilW - 21 July 2012 06:48 AM

To get different shader areas, set them up as different pieces of cloth in MD.  You can select the pattern pieces you need and make them a different material, which then exports as a separate shader area in Carrara.


Thanks. However, what I’m talking about is being able to change materials “on the fly”, efficiently, and when you need it. If you know when you design the cloth all of the possible uses it will have throughout its life, then you can design all that in when you run it thru MD. Most of us can’t, or don’t want to do that.


If I design, say, a simple skirt, run it thru MD, and bring it into Carrara for rendering in a scene, I may decide during my scene work, “hmm…I’d really like to change the length of that skirt using alphas”, or, “hmmm, y’know, I could convert that dress into a shirt and a separate skirt if I could just define two shading domains and apply different textures to each”. Or maybe 6 months later, I might decide I can use that same mesh for a different purpose, and need to be able to edit it quickly and efficiently and modify its textures. Tris make that VERY difficult. That’s how professionals operate, and it’s a good work practice, to make sure your workflow is quick, efficient, and allows you to put stuff in a library for future use.


If you have quads, and can use all of the tools that allows, you simply use Loop, Grow, or whatever tools you want, and select the skirt half of the dress, assign a domain, and BAM, you have a separate material. Invert selection, and BAM, you have the shirt material. Same thing goes for alphas. And UV map generation becomes simple and clean. The skirt is a simple, clean cylinder. There’s a very long list of reasons why we shouldn’t accept tris for stuff like this.


Yes, there are workarounds, but the goal shouldn’t be to workaround, it should be to do it quickly and efficiently. I just want to make sure that everyone sees what a big deal this is so we don’t settle for something that will make our lives very difficult. Tri’s are a really bad thing, man. For those who are bending the ears of the development team over at MD, please, think about the ramifications of tris, and don’t let them get away with not fixing it.      smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

By the way, one area I could use a little help on Rosemary is the shirring settings for an elastic band. I’ve tried tweaking the settings all over the place, and increasing the mesh resolution (hoping that would help the scrunching effect), but I just can’t get any different results. Is that feature not connected, or maybe there’s a trick to getting it to work?


Thanks.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
Rosemaryr - 21 July 2012 10:54 AM

Also, just spotted a previous question: How to change the default (starting) avatar)...
From the MD team here’s the lowdown on the how-to:


Thanks, actually I saw that mentioned in the Tutorials section of the MD site, and couldn’t get it to work.


I was looking around for the Marvelous.PRJ file and didn’t find it. I found one kinda similar, which was a Marvelous.ZPRJ, which I assume is a packed version of the .PRJ file. And of course when I tired to open it in Notepad I got a lot of gobbledy gook. Any idea how to deal with that?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

Perfect and timely example of the tris vs. quads I was mentioning…


Trying out my hand at making a simple pair of pajama bottoms (incredibly easy, BTW, only two polys and you’re done…). When I’m designing it I figured all I needed was the front and back, no fancy waistband since pajamas are usually pretty straightforward, no separate waistband, just the top of the fabric folded over and an elastic inserted inside. So I run it thru MD, render in Carrara, and voila I’ve got some PJ’s. Still working on the shirring, but anyway.


So then I monkey around with a lace alpha to see how that looks, and wow, that’s pretty cools. That’s a keeper too. But UH OH, ain’t got no waistband, and it sure needs one. So now what? Well, there ain’t no way I’m gonna make a separate shading domain in two clicks, or even 20. So basically you’re out of luck.


With quads it’s click, click and you’re done.


Tris, like booleans, are of the devil.

Image Attachments
Jammies1.jpg
Jammies.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

BTW, for anyone interested in the mesh generated by MD, here’s my attempt to select a waistband from the previous example…


In any case, I think I set the particle distance down to around 10, which gave me over 30k polygons for the pajamas. It’s dog slow in the Carrara modeller, and virtually impossible to do any UV modifications since it doesn’t even respond with that many polys.

Image Attachments
Tris.JPG
Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1938
Joined  2008-01-28

nice mesh smile
what happens if you extrude that top edge
does that give you quads?

 Signature 

http://andrewfinnie.blogspot.com.au/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 06:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15

And to continue my ramblings, I think my main recommendation for anyone who wants to use MD as a supplement to Carrara is that you strongly consider using Bullet for your final simulation and render after you’ve generated the clothing and draped it in MD.


MD does a wonderful job of generating clothing, incredibly quickly. However, it is not, I’m assuming, designed to be the world’s best draper. The mesh it uses as default is way too sparse, and the resulting drape often looks way too stiff. I really recommend you set your Particle Distance to get a higher mesh, then when you bring it back to Carrara you run a Bullet sim on it. It can make a HUGE difference. Yes, MD has wind, and with a high density mesh you can probably get better results, but Bullet gives you a lot more flexibility, and once in your scene you have a better idea how to manage the mesh and draping and forces to better interact with the scene.


Personally, I think the draping results from Bullet the way it is now are really pretty decent. AS LONG as you have a very dense mesh. Also, as I mentioned before, if you want the cloth to conform to the body and show realistic wrinkles and some degree of clinginess, I strongly recommend you insert a Directional Force and apply it to the cloth during simulation. Just make sure you set the value at no more than say 2.5 or 3.0, or it will push the cloth thru the figure surface.


Here’s the latest render using those parameters with about 30k polygons and a directional force. Certainly makes the cloth “feel” a bit more weighty and clingly and dynamic.

Image Attachments
Jammies2.jpg
Jammies3.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 07:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
head wax - 21 July 2012 05:52 PM

nice mesh smile
what happens if you extrude that top edge
does that give you quads?


Hey, excellent idea !! Seems to work okay in Hex, though the Carrara “modeller” gave me some weird, trashy polygons. Of course, it and I don’t get along, so there may be a nice way to get it to work.


Sounds like a nice workaround for the specific case where you can add some geometry (of course, most of what I was discussing doesn’t involve that particular case), and don’t mind the extra. Or the additional work to get there.


Loop selecting and adding a shading domain is just so much quicker and easier. But thanks, that was fairly brilliant.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  83
Joined  2003-10-09

Reading through the previous posts:
If I’m understanding the question about an elastic top to your pants:  There are a couple of ways.


1.  Select the upper *edge* in MD, and in the Properties panel, “Basic” tab there is an entry for “Selected Line” and a check box for Elastic On/Off   Have that check on, and set the elastic to about 30-50.  (Think of it as a percentage of the full length of the line)
  Problems:  If you try to animate this in another program, this setting may not hold the garment in place.  (I know it doesn’t in Poser’s dynamic Cloth room manipulations.  The cloth just relaxes into it’s full length.)  It would only be useful in a static image.


2. Create a waistband ****which is shorter in length**** than the upper edge of the pants.  When you sew the two seams together, short to long, the MD program !!automatically!! gathers the fullness of the pants into the waistband.  This should hold up through other programs’ dynamics (I have tested this in Poser).

————————————————————-
Yes, editing a garment using tri-polys is problematic in other programs which use quads.  But MD’s easy creation and (IMHO) superior sim abilities make clothing creation too easy to worry about it.  It is so easy to create or alter a pattern inside MD, that some users don’t even bother saving their MD files; they just whip up a new one when they need something.  (Me: I’m a packrat….keep everything.  *grin*)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
head wax - 21 July 2012 05:52 PM

nice mesh smile


Oh, yeah, and in response to your first comment:


THAT MESH MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT !!! There, I said it. And yes, I have some unresolved issues with triangles. And I have sought professional help.


Anyway, I suspect that if you even asked someone outside the 3D world, say someone who is a fabric weaver or a sewer, what they think of that mesh they’d scratch their heads and wonder what the heck someone was thinking…


The vast majority of fabric is woven in a neat, crisscross, rectangular mesh. So why make a triangular mesh? It’s just so wrong, on so many different levels.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 07:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  83
Joined  2003-10-09

And yes, the MD has heard an earful about the tri vs. quad issue since the beginning.  The request for Quad mesh thread is the longest in the entire MD forum.  The research team *has* come very close:  so close they announced it would be ‘soon’, but to make it 100% quality quads is a very elusive goal.  I would say that they are at the 95% stage, but that last bit is tricky, if you want a real good mesh.

But you have to understand where the history of the program is coming from.

First, the company is actually quite small:  I think it’s less than maybe 20 people. (Guess-timate…)  They have only been in operation about 1 1/2 to 2 years.  And tremendous progress *has* been made in functionality in other areas.  They *do* listen closely to what their customers want.

The original program (Clo3D) was meant **solely** for use in the real-world garment manufacturing pipeline.  Their goal was rapid prototyping of a design concept, and outputting a pattern for CAD based factory machines.  Tris gave that the easiest method of rapid, rapid output. 

It wasn’t until some 3d people spotted it’s usefulness for 3d-only purposes, was when the Marvelous Designer version of Clo3D came out.  And Poser-type users went wild,  because of the ease of 3d clothing creation.  But that’s when the need for quads was raised.  And converting from tris to quads in a programming setting that assumes tris to begin with, is difficult.  But, (and this is purely opinion) I think that they have found that the Poser-type users have been spending more money and time on the program, than the big real-world manufacturing people.  Think 3 sales at the top-end level, and 100’s of sales at the lower end…. who gets the most attention?

They are trying to solve the issue.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
Rosemaryr - 21 July 2012 07:17 PM


2. Create a waistband ****which is shorter in length**** than the upper edge of the pants.

ACK !!!! That’s what I was missing. I thought the manual was saying that you just select an edge, such as the waistband-area edge on a pair of pants, and turn Elastic ON, and the simulator automatically pulls that EDGE taut and bunches up the fabric connected to it. But I guess it doesn’t make the EDGE elastic, it makes the fabric connected to the waistband elastic and scrunchy.


Okay, I think I’ve got it. And if all you want is the scrunchy part, not the waistband itself, I guess you do that procedure you mentioned, but give the waistband material a zero Alpha.

 

 

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 July 2012 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1059
Joined  2007-10-15
Rosemaryr - 21 July 2012 07:36 PM

But you have to understand where the history of the program is coming from.


Hey, you don’t have to convince me about how good the company is. I’ve been doing this stuff professionally for many years, and I can’t recall the last time I was so impressed with the brillance of someone’s software concept and design. As someone else liked to say, “it’s insanely good”.


In any case,  thanks on the waistband. I think I have it, though I need to play with the scrunchy-ness settings a bit.

Image Attachments
Jammies4.jpg
Profile
 
 
   
2 of 4
2