problems finding measurements in hexagon?

dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

Hi everyone I'm new to Hexagon and want to alter a Dinosaur model and cannot fid the measurements. I've found measurements to change to feet, metres etc but when I select the model I can't seem to find where the height length and width measurements so I know how high and long I'm altering the model too.

Any advice? Chears, Ian. :)

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Comments

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    HI there :)

    Don't know whether this is what you mean - in the properties panel, there are three rows of three boxes, coloured pink, green and purple (should be red, green, blue!) - when you select the whole model, the boxes labeled size will show the X, Y and Z measurements. X= width, Y = height and Z = depth.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Is the size section the height length and width then if so then yes :)

    Plus I've been altering measurements in the settings from feet to metres to see if anything changes in the size menu but nothing has altered I'm really confused?

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Yes, that is the place - the measurements are given in Hexagon units.

    The thing is not to be concerned about size - it is proportions that matter. For instance, if you want to increase the size by a third, make sure the "keep proportions" box is ticked, then do a bit of math and type in the number in any of the three boxes and you model will increase in size proportionately.

    All CG applications use different size units and all of them allow you to scale - when you are done in Hex and take it into a rendering app, you will most likely have to scale it to fit whatever it is that you want it to fit to.

    If you could give more info on what it is you want to achieve, I'm sure we can help you with specific advice :

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Ok then that helps abit, chears for that.

    For more information I have a Dinosaur model (Jubaria) that I want to change into a new species for my film it's height length and width is 1.157 (red width) 3.212 (green height) and 7.161 (blue length) but not sure what type of meaurements these are I want to use metres for the alteration to the new species of Dinosaur. As I said in my other post I've changed the setting but in the size box there is no change to the measurements?

    The new model I want to alter is going to be 4.3 metres of height and 12.2 metres in length but the measurements are not what I'm used to seeing unless I'm misreading it?

    Chears, Ian. :)

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited April 2014

    OK - I'm getting a clearer picture of what you need to do. The final product you want is disproportional to the original, so it won't help to do a proportional scaling. What I did was import an object of known proportions, based on your 8 X 3.7 m figures and scaled the hippo to fit.

    I doubt that what you want is something like that!

    Another method is to change the size of the grid in the preferences to the largest size - 8m, so you can measure your model against that - you would have to calculate the size of the cells in the grid (grid size/no of cells) to get the other two dimensions.

    Unless your final product is a stretched out and flattened version of the original, simple scaling will not work for what you want to do - seems to me you will have to be doing some re-modeling to get it to be a very different animal. If you happen to have pictures of the two dinosaurs you can post here, that will give me a better understanding of what is involved.

    As far as the units of measurement are concerned, this is something I have never bothered with - I work with it set to cm and as far as I'm concerned, when I model and it needs to be a certain size, I take the sizes in the properties panel as being that number of cm and that is how it will work out proportionately. I have no idea why it doesn't change the sizes in the properties panel when you change the unit of measurement.

    Hopefully someone who understands this better than I can give us an explanation :)

    HIPPO.JPG
    1024 x 768 - 175K
    Post edited by Roygee on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Thanks for the info and help I do have 2 pics of the 2 dinosaurs I'm trying to alter.
    (Jobaria top Melanorosaurus bottom)

    the Jobaria model is actually textured originally by DinoRaul so as I alter this model anyway of stopping the textures from stretching horribly?

    Also do you know how to select a part of an object on the model for example the whole tail without selecting face by face as it takes ages to do lol.

    pcab145_melanorosaurus.jpg
    550 x 322 - 10K
    Jobaria.jpg
    400 x 198 - 11K
    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited April 2014

    That wouldn't be too difficult for an experienced modeler to do - what you need is to morph it. That way you will preserve the UV mapping and as far as possible use proportional scaling to preserve the texturing. How successfully it can be done will depend very much on the density of the mesh and the resolution of the texturing.

    The texturing of the two dinos is very different, so would you really want to keep the original? Preserving the UV mapping will make it easier for you to re-texture.

    OK - in case you don't know, the process of morphing involves changing shapes without adding to or subtracting from the original mesh. Why I say it depends on the density of the mesh, is that the denser the mesh, the more difficult it is to do.

    For instance, Melanorosaurus has considerably shorter legs, so you would need to compress the mesh in the legs on the Y axis and do so without getting edges overriding other edges. If the mesh is very dense, that will be a challenge.

    What I would do, is to load the pic of Melanorosaurus the front grid - in the scene tree under the properties tab, there is a place to load the pic. Then load the Jobaria model and in front view centre it on the pic and do proportional scaling to get as close a fit as you can. For proportional scaling, use the universal manipulator and drag on the yellow box in the centre.

    Now begins the fun part! I'd start with forequarters, that being the biggest difference - select all the polys of the forequarters and drag down to fit as close as possible without stretching the mesh - use soft select all the while and work gently.

    I wouldn't try to alter the curvature of the tail - that would be neigh impossible to do well. If it is rigged, you will have to adjust the rigging in your rendering app, then use the rigging to alter the curvature.

    You select a bunch of polys by left-click dragging a rectangle, or use the losso, or select some polys and, holding down shift, hit the + button on the numpad to increase the selection and - to decrease.

    You will need to do many iterations of altering the mesh and proportional scaling to get to where you want to be - be patient, work slowly and gently, save early and save often, each save under a different name so that you can go back to an earlier version if you mess up too badly! Remember, no deleting or adding to the mesh - unless you want to re-UV map it.

    Once you have the new model completed, you can look at the size, because then it will all be in proportiona nd you can do proportional scaling to get the size right, if needs be.

    One last thing - be sure that you have the right to alter the model - if it was released with unrestricted rights, you are ok, but if not, be sure to read the small print and if necessary get the author's permission.

    Good luck with the project - please post some progress pics :)

    Post edited by Roygee on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Chears for all the info helps a lot :) I'll give this a try later and hopefully it'll become a success.

    I won't be uploading it as a new model I'm just altering it to put into my film as this species I'm altering it to is not been made so I'm safe on that behalf.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    My pleasure - hope it works for you :)

    Now off you go, nose to the grindstone and let us know how you got on!

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    I've been doing the alterations to my model now and saved it but when I come to load up my model the textures disapear? I saved it as an OBJ file is this the right format to save it as or what?

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    while your work is in progress, save it as the native .hxn file. When you are finished, export as .obj. You can also export the occasional iteration as .obj while making progress, in case the .hxn gets corrupted, you will at least have something that can be opened in practically all CG software.

    What you don't want to do is overwrite your original - keep what you are doing with it in Hex separate from the original.

    Don't bother about the textures if you have the original file, which should include a texture file - you can load that later in your rendering app. I normally remove all textures and materials so I can see the mesh more clearly.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Ok I'll do that then see if that works.

    1 more question you know when you export a model from hexagon and import it into daz is there a way to save it into your library folder? For example when you puchase a model from Daz3d.com you have a zip and you put all the files in each folder the model shows up in your library in Daz Studio 4. Now can you do the same thing with exporting a model from hexagon and importing it into Daz or not or is there a different process?

    Plus after I exported the model and put it into Daz I can't get the models sections to select like the tail, foot, head etc it only selects the whole model and nothing else why does that happen?

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    I don't use Studio for much other than the FST and because I render in Carrara 8.1, which doesn't read DUF files, I create my characters as cr2 files. Don't know much at all about the DUF structure - hopefully a real Studio user can help you there.

    I can explain the cr2 structure if you want, but you will probably want to use the DUF format if you intend to render in Studio?

    But yes, whichever you use, the good news is you can have it show up in your content library :)

    As far as only selecting the whole figure, there is another process you need to go through to rig it - you need to define each body part as a group, and the process differs, depending on whether you are going to use the FST for cr2 or the CCT for DUF.

    Not too sure about this, but I seem to recall that you can also use the CCT for exporting a cr2 and you can use the internal grouping system for the FST as well?

    Patience - please help out here :)

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Ok that's helpful info thanks for that :) do I need to do the rigging in hexagon or daz? If it is in hexagon where do I go to do it as never done this before.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Ok that's helpful info thanks for that :) do I need to do the rigging in hexagon or daz? If it is in hexagon where do I go to do it as never done this before. I maybe sounding abit thick here lol what is FST?

    You know I mentioned that I can only select the model as a whole and not by pieces like you noramally can when you buy a model, I bought the jobaria model and all the pieces where selectable to animate but once altered in Hexagon and put back into Daz that was when the model itself became a whole and not selectable on the body parts that I used to be able to do originally. Is it suposed to do that and you have to re-put in the joints (bones) back onto the model or what?

    Yes I would like you to explain the cr2 structure if you wouldn't mind as all the models I've bought have cr2 files you see :)

    Plus can you tell me how I can save my model into the content library too?

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited April 2014

    OK - so now it starts getting a little complicated, so bear with me :)

    The FST is the Figure Setup Tool, the CCT is the Character Creation Tool, which is the latest method. They both have the same end result - the character is rigged. CCT is a lot easier and simpler to use, but I'm not all that sure that it can be used for creating cr2.

    You can't rig in Hex - it is purely a modelling app, but you can use Hex to make the groups used with FST and CCT, but it would be better to use the grouping tools in Studio (just to get the terminology right - Daz is the name of the company and Studio is the name of the app), but there again, I'm not sure you can use those tools to make groups for a cr2.

    This is why I asked for Patience to help us out here - she is a big Studio user!

    The .obj file does not, of itself, have rigging; that is contained in the cr2 file, which references the .obj file and the texture file to make a complete character. So, when you import an .obj then export it back into Studio, it won't have rigging - it hasn't been destroyed, because it never had it in the first place!

    What you need to do to preserve rigging is to use the Studio-Hexagon bridge. Load your figure in Studio, make sure it is at the base level of mesh resolution - you find this in the Parameters tab. With the figure selected, select File ->Send to Hexagon. That opens Hex, with the figure in it.

    You now do the mesh changes as explained - making sure not to add or delete any verts. For this way of doing it, do not delete the textures.

    If you need to close down and get some sleep, what you do is save the Hex and Studio files. Next day, open the Studio file, send to Hex. Close that Hex file and open the one you saved and continue.

    When you're done, in Hex's file menu, hit Send to Daz Studio. Studio will have been minimised - click the minimised button to open it and you'll get a menu asking whether you want to save as a morph. Give it a unique name and accept.
    Your morphed character will appear, all rigged and textured. There will be a morph slider under the Parameters menu, under Morphs-> Hexagon Bridge. Slide that to 0% before saving. Now comes another tricky part - saving your new morph. Prior to the latest version of Studio, this was simple - you saved it as a morph. There was a discussion recently that there was a problem with the newest version, but this was never resolved. I've just done a quick trial by saving a Studio scene and the morph wasn't saved in a Studio scene file.

    Better you get some expert advice on this before proceeding - maybe over at the Studio forum - you can refer to this discussion to put it in context. Your work won't be lost, however - you'll still have the Hex file to use once this issue has been resolved - to either save the morph or to make a new character.

    The alternative is to make a new character. This process is pretty involved and needs a complete tut all on it's own - of which there are plenty on the Daz site. I can do a brief explanation, but will leave that for now. The morph process will serve you better, so rather get some clarity on that before proceeding :)

    If you do get clarity, please come back and let us know - I'm sure many folk would be interested.

    Post edited by Roygee on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited April 2014

    Ok thanks I'll give this ago and let you know how it goes :)

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Great - whichever method you decide on - morphing, making a new cr2 or a Tri-Az, you will have the .obj to fall back on.

    I asked this question over at the Studio forum and this is the reply I got from someone who really knows the software :-

    With older figures you can't save morph assets, but when you save a modified figure the moprh is (or should be) written to the Data folder - however loading the base figure won't load the new morph, it will appear only when you reload the saved .duf file (which you can't do). For the fourth generation figures you can use ExP exporter to create a set of files that Carrara or Poser will read; for older figures your best option is to export a CR2 which will embed all loaded morphs - you can then, most simply, import that into Carrara but you could also cut and paste the data for the new morph to an injection pose, adjusting it to use one of the blank channels in the CR2 if the fiddle was worth it.

    So, just as an exercise, and because I haven't done much organic modeling recently, I modeled this Triceratops - it needs some work, especially the feet and the head shield, but I should have it sorted and rigged both ways tomorrow, then I'll do some testing and see what works best.

    dino1.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 208K
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    That is a very good modelled Triceratops better than how I would of made it to be honest lol. Chears for the info it's very helpful keep me informed of the rest of it to help more. :)

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone I'm working on a Dinosaur alteration to a species I want to use in my film I altered it all in hexagon to the way I wanted it but when I send it back to Daz studio 4.6 it appears tiny? Plus al the joint bones that the model had before I imported it into Hexagon disapear (don't select) and I can't animate it.
    Anybody had this issue before?

    Chears, Ian :)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,202
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone I'm working on a Dinosaur alteration to a species I want to use in my film I altered it all in hexagon to the way I wanted it but when I send it back to Daz studio 4.6 it appears tiny? Plus al the joint bones that the model had before I imported it into Hexagon disapear (don't select) and I can't animate it.
    Anybody had this issue before?

    Chears, Ian :)

    Start it with D/S.
    Send it over the bridge to Hexagon.
    Morph it.
    Then send it back to D/S and create the morph.
    If like, "save" morph.
    This might have to be done by making a new .cr2 file for it. [legacy rigging]

    When morphing the tiny figure in Hexagon, zoom in closer, do not move the figure's position "at all". Unless said movement is to be part of the morph.
    Drastic morphing will make the rigging not match in D/S. Solution tools are in the program to adjust the rigging.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,898
    edited December 1969

    Merged new thread with old - please don't start a new thread on an existing topic, it simply leads to people going back over ground that has already been covered - annoying for you, and inconsiderate to those who are volunteering their time to try to help you.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    OK - so now it starts getting a little complicated, so bear with me :)

    The FST is the Figure Setup Tool, the CCT is the Character Creation Tool, which is the latest method. They both have the same end result - the character is rigged. CCT is a lot easier and simpler to use, but I'm not all that sure that it can be used for creating cr2.

    You can't rig in Hex - it is purely a modelling app, but you can use Hex to make the groups used with FST and CCT, but it would be better to use the grouping tools in Studio (just to get the terminology right - Daz is the name of the company and Studio is the name of the app), but there again, I'm not sure you can use those tools to make groups for a cr2.

    This is why I asked for Patience to help us out here - she is a big Studio user!

    The .obj file does not, of itself, have rigging; that is contained in the cr2 file, which references the .obj file and the texture file to make a complete character. So, when you import an .obj then export it back into Studio, it won't have rigging - it hasn't been destroyed, because it never had it in the first place!

    What you need to do to preserve rigging is to use the Studio-Hexagon bridge. Load your figure in Studio, make sure it is at the base level of mesh resolution - you find this in the Parameters tab. With the figure selected, select File ->Send to Hexagon. That opens Hex, with the figure in it.

    You now do the mesh changes as explained - making sure not to add or delete any verts. For this way of doing it, do not delete the textures.

    If you need to close down and get some sleep, what you do is save the Hex and Studio files. Next day, open the Studio file, send to Hex. Close that Hex file and open the one you saved and continue.

    When you're done, in Hex's file menu, hit Send to Daz Studio. Studio will have been minimised - click the minimised button to open it and you'll get a menu asking whether you want to save as a morph. Give it a unique name and accept.
    Your morphed character will appear, all rigged and textured. There will be a morph slider under the Parameters menu, under Morphs-> Hexagon Bridge. Slide that to 0% before saving. Now comes another tricky part - saving your new morph. Prior to the latest version of Studio, this was simple - you saved it as a morph. There was a discussion recently that there was a problem with the newest version, but this was never resolved. I've just done a quick trial by saving a Studio scene and the morph wasn't saved in a Studio scene file.

    Better you get some expert advice on this before proceeding - maybe over at the Studio forum - you can refer to this discussion to put it in context. Your work won't be lost, however - you'll still have the Hex file to use once this issue has been resolved - to either save the morph or to make a new character.

    The alternative is to make a new character. This process is pretty involved and needs a complete tut all on it's own - of which there are plenty on the Daz site. I can do a brief explanation, but will leave that for now. The morph process will serve you better, so rather get some clarity on that before proceeding :)

    If you do get clarity, please come back and let us know - I'm sure many folk would be interested.

    I did everything correctly all looks brilliant :D you know when you said go into hexagon bridge under morphs and slide it to 0% I did that but it goes back to it's original size before I sent it to hexagon and back?

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    OK - let's start at the beginning:)

    Is the original a .cr2 or a .duf file?

    It is normal that it will go back to the original size when you slide the morph back to 0 - that is the original state and that is how you need to save it, so that when you load back in and slide to 100%, you get your modified version.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Oh right now it makes sence thanks for your help once again Roygee I'm going to test out the animation to my new modified model if I get any issues with anything I'll report back. :)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,202
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the info and help I do have 2 pics of the 2 dinosaurs I'm trying to alter.
    (Jobaria top Melanorosaurus bottom)

    the Jobaria model is actually textured originally by DinoRaul so as I alter this model anyway of stopping the textures from stretching horribly?

    Also do you know how to select a part of an object on the model for example the whole tail without selecting face by face as it takes ages to do lol.

    http://www.daz3d.com/dinoraul I do not see the Jobaria or Melanorosaurus listed in the store. If sold at Daz3D, could you post a link to the figure(s) you're starting with?

    If you are trying to use the texture from one dinosaur to another, no, the uvmaps will be different. Even for a drastically morphed 'any figure', one needs to make new uvmaps. You may have noticed that each of the major people figures like Genesis end up with quite a collection of them.

    To select many faces, toggle on transparency and in an upper left corner, start a Right-click/drag with the mouse to select a large area. Hold down the Shift key to add/remove the fewer misses or extras.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Happy to help and glad you got it sorted - looking forward to seeing the result:)

    Why I asked whether it was .cr2 or .duf is that there are issues to saving the morph for a .cr2 - it has become far more complex in the latest versions of DS than I care to go into or try.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Thanks for the info and help I do have 2 pics of the 2 dinosaurs I'm trying to alter.
    (Jobaria top Melanorosaurus bottom)

    the Jobaria model is actually textured originally by DinoRaul so as I alter this model anyway of stopping the textures from stretching horribly?

    Also do you know how to select a part of an object on the model for example the whole tail without selecting face by face as it takes ages to do lol.

    http://www.daz3d.com/dinoraul I do not see the Jobaria or Melanorosaurus listed in the store. If sold at Daz3D, could you post a link to the figure(s) you're starting with?

    If you are trying to use the texture from one dinosaur to another, no, the uvmaps will be different. Even for a drastically morphed 'any figure', one needs to make new uvmaps. You may have noticed that each of the major people figures like Genesis end up with quite a collection of them.

    To select many faces, toggle on transparency and in an upper left corner, start a Right-click/drag with the mouse to select a large area. Hold down the Shift key to add/remove the fewer misses or extras.

    Jobaria is from contentparadise.com. Melanorosaurus is the species I'm altering Jobaria into.

    http://contentparadise.com/productDetails.aspx?id=16855


    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Roygee said:
    Happy to help and glad you got it sorted - looking forward to seeing the result:)

    Why I asked whether it was .cr2 or .duf is that there are issues to saving the morph for a .cr2 - it has become far more complex in the latest versions of DS than I care to go into or try.

    It saves as a duf file. I did a save and opened it back up and it did the same again opened up as original size, not having much luck to be honest at the min with it. When I send back to Daz Studio you said t asks if I want to save it as a morph, now do I save it in group path Morphs/HexagonBridge or under a different opion if so which one?

    Plus when I send it back to daz this happens and when I start to animate too, why does that happen?

    morph_issues.jpg
    1440 x 900 - 240K
    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
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