All I ask is that Vendors Use The same folder name for each catagory on their products.

Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
edited July 2012 in The Commons

Hooray. Got a new product. Its called X under character, Y under pose, and Z under Props. WTF man. Wouldnt it make sense to keep the names the same? So if I load a character prop, I know what it is called, and if I go to POSE for a texture or pose I know it is listed under the exact same name. Same thing with Camera's, materials and lights. I load a scene, and for the life of me do not know under what freaking name the pose, or lights was put under. Some go under vendor names, some with a !! infront. I rename all my stuff now before It goes into my runtimes, but for all my older content it is still a mess. Also why put MAT infront of a texture set? Now although the product is called X, I must cycle under the letter M to find the textures for it. If the character is called Jane, under pose make the folder called Jane, if there is props for it make that folder called Jane. Rather make sub folders in there but keep the master folder the same name. There are one or two smart vendors that do this, and to them I give a thumbs up. I'm just venting because I do not understand the logic of such messy file naming.

Post edited by Zev0 on
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Comments

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Buy items with Metadata, and you can use "Smart Content" to find related content. Simple as that.


    Choose to use the "Poser" runtime structure and you're choosing what you describe.


    Kendall

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,244
    edited December 1969

    I agree with Zevo, very frustrating! Some, like myself do not want metadata

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    I agree with Zevo, very frustrating! Some, like myself do not want metadata


    As I said, it's a choice. You choose to fight the frustration, or not. Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.


    The vendors aren't going to change their workflows, so the "varied directory names" are here to stay. So, that leaves Metadata (both DS and Poser use it BTW) to remedy the problem.


    Kendall

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,260
    edited December 1969

    Yeah its bad. For all my non-genesis stuff I put in forlders the way I want. I got rid of MAT from the front of all the folders and sorted things the way I thought made sense.

    I don't mess with the daz specific content yet, not sure what will break something. I know I'm safe renaming and organizing the Poser libraries structure though.

    Doesn't help you any, but I guess I am just saying I related. I don't think the crazy folder naming practice will ever change. Because I'm sure it's done for good reason ;)


    I know in the pose folder sometimes there is actually a pose, and other times its the materials so they put MAT in front to separate from poses. Thats not always the case though. It may be because they think you will always go t the MAT section to find mats.

    I had to split my POSE director into Hair, Pose, Props etc so I wouldn't get lost when scrolling endlessly. It' helped a lot.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,585
    edited December 1969

    Rename the folders into something that will help you remember what's in there. :) It's only a problem if you need to uninstall or re-install. :)


    That said, I find it annoying too.... and I use Smart Content (though I'm still way behind in organizing my folders, because even the metadata categories aren't usually set up the way I want.)

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited July 2012

    I don't just work in Daz.. Also I hate metadata. For me its easier finding what I want by doing a search in the content Library tab. Still, thats no excuse for confusing folder filenaming. But like I said, I'm just venting:)

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,260
    edited July 2012

    Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.

    Kendall

    Metadata is a pain of its own. It's not consistent and it is a separate system all together. It is not the end all by any stretch of the imagination. I know there are the meta-data Evangelist, but in reality it does not work for everyone. Trying to add metadata to your own content is such a large time investment it is really much faster to simply manage folders.

    Metadata is nice and fancy but not what it is sold to be. I do agree the poser system is ridiculous but you can't ditch something that has so much content. I agree the OP is asking for something that will never happen.

    Long story short; metadata is overrated and the legacy system is dated.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,260
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    I don't just work in Daz.. Also I hate metadata. For me its easier finding what I want by doing a search in the content Library tab. Still, thats no excuse for confusing folder filenaming. But like I said, I'm just venting:)

    And this is one area I do think metadata would be most useful, search. When I search for items I know I have I hate it when a pair of pants don't show up because they are named BOTTOMS. With metadata that can be fixed but ultimately metadata is about a lot more than just search keywords...

    I would do a lot less browsing if I could use search more reliably but realistically I know there is nothing I can do about it.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited December 1969

    Oh it can happen if sites put that in the rules of product uploading, But its just me complaining. It doesn't seem to bother other users otherwise it would have been enforced a long time ago.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,244
    edited December 1969

    I agree with Zevo, very frustrating! Some, like myself do not want metadata


    As I said, it's a choice. You choose to fight the frustration, or not. Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.


    The vendors aren't going to change their workflows, so the "varied directory names" are here to stay. So, that leaves Metadata (both DS and Poser use it BTW) to remedy the problem.


    Kendall

    See, that is the thing, i don't view the poser runtime file structure as wrong or ridiculous, it is what i have used for years and what works for me in poser and with DS4, so I see no reason to change from it. I have 80+ gig of content in this format, have no desire to change that to a new file structure.
    I like DS4 and have become a DS user (as well as poser, vue, carrara, etc) despite trying DS several times in the past and not getting the UI, I have also tried to get a grip on the DS file structure which is installed in the default location, BUT if vendors want to change things up because they have metadata to fix it for them, then I take issue with that. When I open DS4 It seems that the more DS specific content I purchase and install, the more jumbled the DS content area of my content tab gets and I have to go in and fix it, where as my poser content is where I expect it to be in most cases.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,260
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Oh it can happen if sites put that in the rules of product uploading, But its just me complaining. It doesn't seem to bother other users otherwise it would have been enforced a long time ago.

    Rules cost money to implement though. And even then it would be like metadata where it still can be inconsistent as hell.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.

    Kendall

    Metadata is a pain of its own. It's not consistent and it is a separate system all together. It is not the end all by any stretch of the imagination. I know there are the meta-data Evangelist, but in reality it does not work for everyone. Trying to add metadata to your own content is such a large time investment it is really much faster to simply manage folders.

    Metadata is nice and fancy but not what it is sold to be. I do agree the poser system is ridiculous but you can't ditch something that has so much content. I agree the OP is asking for something that will never happen.

    Long story short; metadata is overrated and the legacy system is dated.

    Metadata isn't a complete fix. By definition it was a workaround for a bad foundation. However, the ONLY way to relate one piece to another is with metadata of some sort. DAZ uses one type of JSON Metadata, Poser uses an XML metadata.


    If I had my druthers, DS would store EVERYTHING in the CMS and the Runtime would go away.


    Kendall

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    I agree with Zevo, very frustrating! Some, like myself do not want metadata


    As I said, it's a choice. You choose to fight the frustration, or not. Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.


    The vendors aren't going to change their workflows, so the "varied directory names" are here to stay. So, that leaves Metadata (both DS and Poser use it BTW) to remedy the problem.


    Kendall

    See, that is the thing, i don't view the poser runtime file structure as wrong or ridiculous, it is what i have used for years and what works for me in poser and with DS4, so I see no reason to change from it. I have 80+ gig of content in this format, have no desire to change that to a new file structure.
    I like DS4 and have become a DS user (as well as poser, vue, carrara, etc) despite trying DS several times in the past and not getting the UI, I have also tried to get a grip on the DS file structure which is installed in the default location, BUT if vendors want to change things up because they have metadata to fix it for them, then I take issue with that. When I open DS4 It seems that the more DS specific content I purchase and install, the more jumbled the DS content area of my content tab gets and I have to go in and fix it, where as my poser content is where I expect it to be in most cases.


    The poser runtime structure was a mistake and it was recognized fairly early on. Unfortunately, certain things within Poser relied on this structure, and workarounds proliferated until SM decided to drop the reliance on it. The way it should have been done was one folder for each "product" and all support files for that product went in that folder. SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA.


    Under the right environment though, this can actually happen. And I have exactly that. :-P


    Kendall

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,479
    edited December 1969

    Folder organization has been an ongoing issue for well over 10 years. Everyone has different ideas about how it should be organized and as such should organize their content as they see fit.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Right Click, in DS and Rename. Folder, item, what not, nevermind....

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,260
    edited July 2012

    Jaderail said:
    Right Click, in DS and Rename. Folder, item, what not, nevermind....

    You can't move stuff in DS right? If so that would be golden. That way maybe even the CMS would catch the change if you happened to move stuff around that had Metadata.

    I only use metadata for Genesis stuff but some items are V4 and Genesis and they tend to put the content in the poser folder structure when it works for both(at least for two hair items I am thinking about). So when you move the poser data around it bugs out the metadata which is sad news because the references no longer work.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • RoguePilotRoguePilot Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    What Zev is asking is pretty straightforward and, as he has said, is already being done by some.

    This is not a Poser folder issue, it's basic file naming convention.

    I have only produced a few free items but each Character, Pose and Texture follows the exact same folder structure in each section, each named for the item. It really is just a common sense workflow.

    Everyone seems to be going off on a tangent talking about Studio and Metadata but, let's face it, sometimes you have to track down a files real location, especially in Carrara. As far as I can see, Metadata will lead to a disorganised structure as producers are now less tied to having to build products with a structured system. Even looking at what is in my Runtimes now, without the issue of metadata, I can easily see which vendors have a good solid workflow and thus inspire more confidence in their products.

  • ColdrakeColdrake Posts: 0
    edited July 2012


    You can't move stuff in DS right? If so that would be golden.

    Most things you can. I'm sure it messes up the metadata, but the way I set up my content\runtimes I don't need the metadata.


    If I have a product named X, I move all the materials, poses, lights etc and any add ons for X into sub folders of X, (and a huge thanks to all the vendors that do this!). That way everything related to it is right there.


    Coldrake

    Post edited by Coldrake on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,824
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Right Click, in DS and Rename. Folder, item, what not, nevermind....

    You can't move stuff in DS right? If so that would be golden. That way maybe even the CMS would catch the change if you happened to move stuff around that had Metadata.

    You can move files, singly or in groups, but not a folder as a folder.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,206
    edited December 1969


    The vendors aren't going to change their workflows
    Kendall

    You mean workflaws.... :)

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    If one tries to organize things by adding a new system on top of a mess, it never works in the end in my experience.

    Metadata is *one* way to solve that problem. Another is to ditch the ridiculous Poser legacy completely.

    Kendall

    Metadata is a pain of its own. It's not consistent and it is a separate system all together. It is not the end all by any stretch of the imagination. I know there are the meta-data Evangelist, but in reality it does not work for everyone. Trying to add metadata to your own content is such a large time investment it is really much faster to simply manage folders.

    Metadata is nice and fancy but not what it is sold to be. I do agree the poser system is ridiculous but you can't ditch something that has so much content. I agree the OP is asking for something that will never happen.

    Long story short; metadata is overrated and the legacy system is dated.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    It doesn't seem to bother other users otherwise it would have been enforced a long time ago.

    Ok, I'm assuming that was just sarcastic ;p

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    See, that is the thing, i don't view the poser runtime file structure as wrong or ridiculous, it is what i have used for years...

    The problem is that most people don't want to put in years to learn something that is totally unintuitive and fractured in their experience. I tried and didn't use Poser v1-6 because I did think that the system was unintuitive to the point that I didn't want to be bothered trying to wrap my brain around it. I mean come on... calling a texture a 'pose' because of some underlying technical aspect? That is just unacceptable in a user interface imo. Separating objects from their textures, accessories, poses and lightsets just doesn't make sense to most people. In general people expect when they purchase something that everything in that package should be contained in one place. Add to that the fact that everything got further fractured by having stuff in the poser folder structure and stuff in the DAZ folder structure for the same package and it's an unrecognizable mess for most people. I'm sure anyone here who's read the forums much has seen multiple posts where people comment "I have had xxx item for (some period of time,) I didn't know it came with yyy." Just saying that person is stupid isn't a solution, one shouldn't have to think that hard about these things.

    Items should be in subfolders of the package they came with. One shouldn't have to hunt for things. Metaphors and labels that have to do with underlying technology rather than user frames of reference are a known mistake in interface design. Having multiple subfolder groups poser and DAZ which stuff gets split across is a problem.

    There are workarounds yes, but workarounds should not be confused with solutions. The solution is to fix the underlying problems.

    Do we really want a community based on exclusiveness where the only ones able to participate are the ones who take the time to learn strange idiosyncrasies, or do we want an inclusive community that continues to evolve in a more usable and friendly way. One way leads to extinction, the other growth.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited July 2012

    An addendum to the last post. Generic light set, pose and camera folders only apply for generic light sets, cameras, and poses. Any of these created for a specific scene should be with that scene as they usually don't apply to other scenes, and if they do in some instance.. well we know where they are ;)

    The true test of usability is, does it make sense to someone who's never used the product before... I think most people here would agree the current state of storage in DAZ fails in this respect.

    I love DAZ and hope for good things for the future, so I put this forth with best intentions.

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    You can't move stuff in DS right?

    Yes, you can move stuff and many of us do. However, there are rules as to what you can/can't move, and they are a secret mystery only revealed under a full moon in the shadow of the crypt where Jim Morrison was buried. ;)

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited December 1969

    What Zev is asking is pretty straightforward and, as he has said, is already being done by some.

    This is not a Poser folder issue, it's basic file naming convention.

    I have only produced a few free items but each Character, Pose and Texture follows the exact same folder structure in each section, each named for the item. It really is just a common sense workflow.

    Everyone seems to be going off on a tangent talking about Studio and Metadata but, let's face it, sometimes you have to track down a files real location, especially in Carrara. As far as I can see, Metadata will lead to a disorganised structure as producers are now less tied to having to build products with a structured system. Even looking at what is in my Runtimes now, without the issue of metadata, I can easily see which vendors have a good solid workflow and thus inspire more confidence in their products.

    Thank you:)

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,100
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    You can't move stuff in DS right?

    Yes, you can move stuff and many of us do. However, there are rules as to what you can/can't move, and they are a secret mystery only revealed under a full moon in the shadow of the crypt where Jim Morrison was buried. ;)

    Data, Runtime, and ReadMe's are special folders in a DS-format content folder. Outside of those folders, you can move DS-format content anywhere.

  • Velvet GoblinVelvet Goblin Posts: 376
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Oh it can happen if sites put that in the rules of product uploading, But its just me complaining. It doesn't seem to bother other users otherwise it would have been enforced a long time ago.

    It's bugged the hell out of me for years. Every once in a while, there are forum posts in which people complain about precisely the same thing.


    My pet peeve: there is a certain texture artist here at Daz that puts all of their products under a folder in their name rather than the name of the product. I curse every time I install their stuff.


    For some reason, metadata just doesn't work for me. When I installed DS, and all the newer Genesis stuff I bought, I scrupulously installed all of the metadata files. But the smart content was finding only about 10% of it, which was utterly useless.

  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 522
    edited December 1969

    That's just it. It ISN'T a texture. It's a set of textures/material settings, so I never found "Pose" to be counter intuitive for applying material settings to an object. Textures are actually put in a Texture folder under the Runtime.

    It also made complete sense to me for lights to be in Lights, Cameras to be in Cameras ... etc. It's not at all different from filing taxes in a Taxes folder, utilities in a Utilities folder, rent/mortgage papers in a Rent/Mortgage folder. Marriage/Divorce papers in a Was I Crazy?!? folder. And ... so on.


    What NEVER made sense was vendors naming the folder in Figures "Jane's Sexy Dress," while naming the MAT folder "Club Outfit," and naming the product itself ... "Night on the Town."

    .

    Gedd said:
    I mean come on... calling a texture a 'pose' because of some underlying technical aspect? That is just unacceptable in a user interface imo.

  • Velvet GoblinVelvet Goblin Posts: 376
    edited December 1969



    What NEVER made sense was vendors naming the folder in Figures "Jane's Sexy Dress," while naming the MAT folder "Club Outfit," and naming the product itself ... "Night on the Town."

    This.

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