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All I ask is that Vendors Use The same folder name for each catagory on their products.
Posted: 11 July 2012 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Do you really know any software that is a bit more complicated than a text editor where people don’t have to learn to use it?

Honestly - I am VERY much with the originator of the thread to make all folder names consistent (it is what I am doing by installing to a temporary folder and renaming all the folders so there is one name for them all).

But I am (see my signature) very much in favour of content being usable in more than one software.

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I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?
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Posted: 11 July 2012 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Content being usable in more than one software package does not require a convoluted mess. This is where people get hung up. For some reason people have accepted the irrational assumption that these two go hand in hand.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Gedd - 11 July 2012 06:25 AM

Content being usable in more than one software package does not require a convoluted mess. This is where people get hung up. For some reason people have accepted the irrational assumption that these two go hand in hand.

Well - tell me how you would set up clothes for V4 that are working in Dazstudio and Poser and are coming with some extra textures.
Honest question!

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I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?
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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Kerya - 11 July 2012 06:32 AM

Well - tell me how you would set up clothes for V4 that are working in Dazstudio and Poser and are coming with some extra textures.Honest question!

And that is an excellent question. In fact, that is the question we should have been asking in the beginning.

To further round out this question I would like to add a couple things. First, different people have different needs. For some it is important to have Poser and DAZ studio versions of something for various reasons. I definitely am *not* in favor of loosing access to any form for anyone that needs it. However, there are those that need only DAZ or only Poser, and futher, there are those that need only one at a given time but might discover later need the second. This can be accommodated without the current ‘give them everything automatically and let them sort it out’ approach. This approach only makes it easy for people who by the nature of needing both are the least in need of it being the default action. Therefore, having some other method where it is not the default but is available makes sense. This could be as easy as an installer that has a basic tab where one choses a simple basic install for a given product with an ‘advanced’ tab for other options, preferably with a ‘template’ feature that allows further installations to follow the same set of procedures (or even multiple templates to choose from for those with multiple installation configurations.) Or, it could be where the resources are available for alternate installations similar to template files for UV maps. Or… there could be a method I haven’t thought of that would work better but would provide a simple basic install with all of the functionality the ‘advanced’ user might want. The point is, the current system caters to the ‘advanced user’ who doesn’t need such hand-holding rather than the basic user who does. Most people don’t need the various Poser materials if it comes with DAZ materials if they are working in DAZ for instance. Poser versions of objects in the poser subfolder structure instead of a DAZ version for simple objects… why? Yes I understand it might work better to access the base obj rather then export an obj (haven’t tested this thoroughly yet) But again, why clutter someone’s HD if they *never* will use this. While it might be impractical to do away with the Poser folder structure in DAZ at the moment for those that would rather not see it… reducing it’s footprint would go a long way to simplifying things, with the goal of eliminating it all-together *for anyone who doesn’t want to work with Poser also.*

I forgot the second thing, but…

To answer the original question, If the vendor only bothers to make Poser materials, this should be clear in the sales page and further, it should be pared down for DAZ installs to just ones that will work in DAZ, with the option to get other materials as a resource download.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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I would even suggest the problem goes deeper than this. Without first addressing these issues, we cannot properly go forward in ways that DAZ software needs to it seems. Imagine a version of DAZ that allows simple saving/packaging/distribution of various textures, poses etc… Yes I know for some it is simple now, but I am referring to simple for a young person, for someone who is very artistic but technically challenged, etc… The current system requires too much of a technical mindset which will always limit creativity. Think of web pages when one had to hand code html or use very complicated software. Yes Dreamweaver isn’t something the typical person picks up over a weekend and starts producing beautiful results, but there *are* packages out there where one can. This for instance: http://mysmithmicro.com/marcom/eblasts/macware/macflux/20120606/index-web.html

It seems we should be striving for this level of ease in use so that more people can explore their creative side.

I understand it might require a little extra effort on the part of content providers, but the benefit is a potentially much expanded user base and that seems a reasonable tradeoff.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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The different installers for different people sounds interesting.
On the other hand, knowing a bit about psychology: how many people will install the “basic” tab if there is an “advanced” tab?
Will they really forego something they paid for?

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I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?
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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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People go for simple, especially when they try complicated and discover it doesn’t benefit them.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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That may be ...

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I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?
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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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It’s like trying to sell everyone Photoshop when most people only need or want PS Elements (or less.) Or, like how I prefer Hexagon for doing modeling in at the moment even though I play in Blender, Maya, and 3DS Max. Hexagon does everything I am reasonably proficient at without throwing a ton of other things at me that while very useful to someone more proficient then me, is clutter otherwise that distracts one from getting anything done. Simple is good.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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In large scale software, like banking etc… It isn’t the number of features that typically sells the software, it’s how many clicks it takes to do the common repetitive tasks. When one does a single task a hundred times during the day, 3 clicks vs 5 make a big difference. This is an example of simplicity at it’s finest, when a click or two can make or break a million dollar sale.

In a related issue, how much does complicated install and usability issues affect overall sales? The number one issue with online sales is anything that complicates the process between decision and purchase. I would suggest that the followup usability is a close second.

The goal should be software that is simple to the point that one doesn’t *need* documentation for the fundamental tasks, much less have to do research.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Simple is good - but both are examples of low price/free = basic version versus high price = professional version.
wink

Anyway: there are some examples where vendors are making a Poser version, a DS version and a Poser/DS bundle version. I don’t know how good those are selling, to tell the truth. I tend to buy none of them ...

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I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?
Poser and Daz Studio Free Resources Wiki: https://poserdazfreebies.orain.org

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Posted: 11 July 2012 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Kerya - 11 July 2012 07:53 AM

Anyway: there are some examples where vendors are making a Poser version, a DS version and a Poser/DS bundle version. I don’t know how good those are selling, to tell the truth. I tend to buy none of them ...

These are examples of people trying to monetize different versions, and at a much higher price then the market will bear imo. If there is any charge for alternate versions, it would seem that it should be minimal. All this typically does is incur an additional cost to anyone who might want to extend the original product and by doing so increase sales of the original, so it seems self defeating.

Kerya - 11 July 2012 07:53 AM

Simple is good - but both are examples of low price/free = basic version versus high price = professional version. wink

I think you missed a couple things. Banking software isn’t low priced, the web page design software I mentioned is extremely functional, and I don’t think DAZ is trying to compete with Maya or 3DS.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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Btw, anyone looking to do web page design on a Mac should look at that link.. the software looks very sweet. I haven’t tried it personally as I do my web page design on Windows/linux primarily… but it looks very nice.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Another better example is probably the original Unix/Linux concept where things were simple tools made to play nice together and do what they did well. Blender unfortunately seems to have lost this as it is an example of a monolithic product and is a perfect example of the results of that approach. It is very hard to simplify the interface of something that does so many things. (Note: I love Blender, but am far from able to use it efficiently.)

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Posted: 11 July 2012 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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I would like to thank everyone who has participated or is participating in this debate btw. It is the only way to explore possibilities and grow. While it is natural for one to try to put forth their view the best they can, I would not suggest that I am in fact any more correct in my view than anyone else here. All opinions are welcome and valid in a good debate. Plus, we should all hopefully reserve the right to change our opinion at any time. smile

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