Digital Art Zone

larsmidnatt - 10 July 2012 09:17 AM

A mac will not be superior to a PC, it can be equal to it but cost you more to get there.

Not so. By the time you add in all the inclusions that come with the Mac, a PC will cost the same or more than the Mac. When I bought the current i7 iMac, I looked at buying a Windows box. By the time I took the nearest equivalent Dell and brought it up to as close to the Mac as I could (the Dell system ended up with a 24” screen running at lower resolution than the 27” iMac screen), the Dell as about $300 more.

If you want to use Bryce you will have to go PC - Bryce doesn’t work on the newest Mac OS and the development cycle for Bryce is taking a rest.

I have always used “yum cha” PC’s. It’s a little word play; Chinese restaurant yum cha is where they come around in a cart full of various dishes that you can pick & mix from. Not meant derogatory at all. Basically it’s that little PC shop on the corner with Asian techies that custom built a PC for you. You choose the components and they put it together cheap cheap. Good for 5 years, which is about the average life for the next major upgrades to keep up with new technology. But finding a good techie for your PC is like finding a good mechanic for your car, mostly based on recommendations from others. I’m budgeting for a new PC for next year and already started researching the various components; those that I would like, and those that I can afford. BTW GPU rendering seems the new way that industry is going. Also don’t throw away your old PC because you can use it as a render node/farm (if you know how to set one up).

I have used both Macs and PCs for over 20 years.
My preference is for the Mac. Faster, easier and less problematic to use.
I have an old G4 with OS9, 13 or so years old and still running fine. I have a MacBook Pro that’s 8+ years old and still running fine.

You can run a Windows OS on a Mac. Go to Apple and look at their ads and computer specs for details.

Aelfric - 11 July 2012 04:40 AM

larsmidnatt - 10 July 2012 09:17 AM

A mac will not be superior to a PC, it can be equal to it but cost you more to get there.

Not so. By the time you add in all the inclusions that come with the Mac, a PC will cost the same or more than the Mac. When I bought the current i7 iMac, I looked at buying a Windows box. By the time I took the nearest equivalent Dell and brought it up to as close to the Mac as I could (the Dell system ended up with a 24” screen running at lower resolution than the 27” iMac screen), the Dell as about $300 more.

If you wanted the Dell equivalent to the iMac display then you should have taken the Dell UltraSharp U2711 which is cheaper than the Mac Display. Apple is a bit more expensive that is a fact

The big advantage with PC is that you can buy the component you exactely want. I always customize my PC for my need and Apple can’t give me what I want. And as years pass you can always eventually sell old components to buy new ones. That is harder with Mac.
Now for a valid comparison here is a list of components I’d buy if I was to make an equivalent to the best iMac

Processor Intel Core i7 2600K (3.4 GHz)  280 €
Motherboard AsFatality P67 190 €
Memory Corsair XMS3 32 Go (4 x 8 Go) DDR3 1333 MHz CL9 200€
Watercooling Corsair H100 Hydro Series 100 €
Gainward - GeForce GTX 580 - 3 Go GDDR5 - PCI Express 370 €
SSD Intel 520 240 Go, SATA III 350 €
Hard Disk Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001, 3 To 150 €
BD Writer Blu-Ray Sony BD-5300S-03 75 €
Soundcard ESI U46 XL 150 €
Tower PC Corsair Carbide Series 400R 90 €
Power unit Corsair AX1200, 1050 W 180 €
Wireless mouse + Keyboard + Usb Cam 80 €
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 180 €
Apple Thunderbolt Display 27 ” 999 €

Sum is 3395€.

iMac with 27” Display Thunderbolt

  3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
  16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB
  2TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
  AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2GB GDDR5

  Apple Magic Mouse
  Apple Wireless Keyboard (British) & User’s Guide (English)
  Accessory Kit

Sum 3300 €

The iMac is a bit cheaper, BUT

I get the CPU of my choice. Not sure with Apple
I directly chose 32Go Ram which I can’t with an iMac and that could be very usefull with 3D hungry scenes
Can’t buy an Nvidia Card with 3Go Ram for Gpu rendering with Octane and no Nvidia SLI to get more rendering power
My second HDD is 3To vs only 2To with the iMac
Where is the BD writer option for the iMac?
Bought a good soundcard cause I’m also a musician. Should add 150€ on the iMac if I want that too
My power Unit is strong enough if I want many Graphic Card in SLI. The iMac Power supply is only 310 W. Can’t add a lot of cards

So I’d say that it really depends on what you want. If you want something simple out of the Box go for Apple as long as you have everything you need. Plus I’ve been told that Apple vendors are very nice. If you want to do Gpu rendering with Octane, be able to go multi Gpu, want 32Go Ram you may consider a PC. And you get more power for the same price.

The really important thing is what you need and how you work. I also have a good notebook HP Workstation i7 with 8Go Ram and a Quadro Gfx Card. I mainly work on my desktop but I also work on my notebook when I’m not home. I don’t really know what you mean by “more complex scene” so I can’t tell if a notebook is sufficient for you. I can only tell you it’s enough for most of my scenes till now but I don’t think my scenes are complex

Last point is your taste and feeling. I don’t care about the design of my computer but some people do. On this point Apple is good and their product are well thought and robust. I don’t think I know anybody regretting buying a Mac. So that is very up to you

Takeo Kensei, I love ya, but you have no clue about Macs.

At 3300 - you can get a 6 core MacPro, 48Gb of memory & a good monitor and that does include VAT.

Nvidia cards are supported in OSX.  The 470 & 570 in 10.7.  The 670 support is added in 10.8, which should arrive by the end of the month.

A MacPro can take 5 Hard drives stock - up to 10 with a couple of aftermarket add-ons.

Adding a BlueRay player is about $59 & additional software.

A soundcard is between 150 & 1000 depending on how much one wants to spend.

The power supply is 1,000 watts so powering all of those drives and cards isn’t a problem.

TCO makes a MacPro a much better deal than an iMac because you are looking at at least a 5 year life-cycle.

I own a MacPro and a Dell workstation - the Dell is a nightmare to maintain on both the hardware side as well as the software side.

ssgbryan - 13 July 2012 05:12 PM

Takeo Kensei, I love ya, but you have no clue about Macs.

At 3300 - you can get a 6 core MacPro, 48Gb of memory & a good monitor and that does include VAT.

Nvidia cards are supported in OSX.  The 470 & 570 in 10.7.  The 670 support is added in 10.8, which should arrive by the end of the month.

A MacPro can take 5 Hard drives stock - up to 10 with a couple of aftermarket add-ons.

Adding a BlueRay player is about $59 & additional software.

A soundcard is between 150 & 1000 depending on how much one wants to spend.

The power supply is 1,000 watts so powering all of those drives and cards isn’t a problem.

TCO makes a MacPro a much better deal than an iMac because you are looking at at least a 5 year life-cycle.

I own a MacPro and a Dell workstation - the Dell is a nightmare to maintain on both the hardware side as well as the software side.

Sorry but I think I know enough and you should read carefully and not react like a fanboy. You don’t get a Mac Pro with the 27” thunderbolt at 3300 €. with the same exact equipment as I chose. and I was comparing desktop PCs

If it takes a Mac workstation to compete against a Desktop PC it really shows my point. If I build up a workstation, be sure that I’ll have more power for the same price than any Mac Pro

As for maintaining hardware, if you can’t maintain a PC….then you can’t maintain a Mac.
I will just agree that for software it may be easier with OSX but I’m not sure. 99 % of the problems are behind the keyboard

I’m not starting a fanboy war. stay cool

Takeo.Kensei - 12 July 2012 03:20 PM

If you wanted the Dell equivalent to the iMac display then you should have taken the Dell UltraSharp U2711 which is cheaper than the Mac Display. Apple is a bit more expensive that is a fact

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=soho&cs=ussoho1&sku=224-8284&~ck=dellSearch&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=3

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC914LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

$999 is cheaper than $999? For how many years have you slept through Maths class?

That said, Samsung has one that’s a tad less dear.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=soho&cs=ussoho1&sku=A5213277&~ck=dellSearch&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=17

Ascania - 13 July 2012 09:28 PM

Takeo.Kensei - 12 July 2012 03:20 PM

If you wanted the Dell equivalent to the iMac display then you should have taken the Dell UltraSharp U2711 which is cheaper than the Mac Display. Apple is a bit more expensive that is a fact

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=soho&cs=ussoho1&sku=224-8284&~ck=dellSearch&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=3

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC914LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

$999 is cheaper than $999? For how many years have you slept through Maths class?

That said, Samsung has one that’s a tad less dear.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=soho&cs=ussoho1&sku=A5213277&~ck=dellSearch&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=17

You can always get things cheaper through a reseller. Try getting it through Amazon. And my math are good thank you. If I was sleeping, it was because it was too easy. Btw personnal attacks won’t lead you anywhere

756€ for the U2711 and 960 € for the Apple display at Amazon and I can have it for less from other resellers. Anyway, there are other 27” displays that are equivalent and cheaper too. That is just a matter of choice. For the story, I am OK to pay the price for the service. My last buy was a LED display and I bought it from the reseller who could give me a 5 years warranty with 0 dead pixels during the 5 years. If one day I find a dead pixel, I can return it and they will give me a new without discussion.