Why does Daz release such a few Items compared to other sites?

Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Is this due to

A. lack of vendors
B. Quality control and testing (Been a lot of slip ups recently)
C. Strategic time release of products.

This is NOT a poll, I just want to know what is the strategy here if any. I look at R-osity, and their store spoils me with choice. Yes a lot of products are nothing special, but still. It is nice to have a wider selection. Daz has always been known as a content Guru, but with so few releases I wonder what is happening here? Just Popped in there again at R-osity and another 10 products added since Yesterday.

«1

Comments

  • willowfanwillowfan Posts: 181
    edited December 1969

    I would say the answer is B. I've always had the impression that DAZ goes for quality over quantity. Certainly the impression I've got from various forum posts over the years is that it is quite difficult to get your foot in the door as a PA here.

    AS for regularity of releases, RuntimeDNA aren't exactly prolific with releases either, with new releases tending to stay on the front page if anything longer than here at DAZ.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 2,657
    edited December 1969

    With the versatility of Genesis, there is no need for a separate product for each figure.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited December 1969

    AtticAnne said:
    With the versatility of Genesis, there is no need for a separate product for each figure.

    I agree, but it is also 10 times easier developing for Genesis compared to Gen4, so that still does not explain what the hold up is.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 2,657
    edited December 1969

    Personally, I think there are too many releases, even on DAZ, and too many sales. My loose money doesn't go very far. As a buyer I look at quality, versatility, and uniqueness.

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited July 2012

    AtticAnne said:
    Personally, I think there are too many releases, even on DAZ

    That assumes every release will be useful to you, whereas maybe only one item in a week's releases will pique my curiosity and that seems perfectly valid to me. It might be the same for a lot of users, but which item draws their attention is going to vary from user to user. You won't catch the attention of your buyers without a good range of items (contemporary clothing in styles from staid to club, fantasy, historical, SFnal,and so on).

    I find that Renderosity releases so many items that I just can't keep track, which means they lose a lot of potential sales - I might buy there three or four times a year. DAZ OTOH I can miss a week, come back and still not be flooded out by the number of new releases, so they seem to have it just about right.

    Post edited by DWG on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited July 2012

    My comment i make here is no way intended to bash or put down Daz4 or genesis, or to start a poser/daz compatibility debate

    so I retracted my comment to keep the peace & love :)

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    DAZ's QA program.


    Anyone who has kept up with PA's comments over the years has seen the mentions of "still in DAZ QA" or "I have to redo something because DAZ QA found ..."


    Since DAZ's return policy is better than any other, they must be more careful not to allow bad items in the store. There are costs involved with refunding money.


    Even with the recent "issues" DAZ's QA crew is Lightyears ahead of the others.


    Kendall

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited July 2012


    Older versions of Daz such as Daz 3 and Daz 2 could use poser compatibility products,. genesis not so much. you really have to work with genesis to get older gen4 products to work with it.


    That's plain wrong, I'm afraid, DS4 and Genesis can use Poser stuff just as well as DS3 and earlier - and try using Gen 3 content on Gen 4 figures in any version of Studio or Poser prior to DS4.


    Some long time users have hard drives full of older gen4 content they want to continue to use without having to add a tool or some other kind of rigging to get it to work in DAZ4 so they don't bother with with it. myself included.


    I've yet to come across anything that won't work in DS4 other than plugins that haven't been updated.


    even though Daz4 is free you need to buy tons of Genesis compatible tools and morphs figures and such to get genesis to work

    Not at all. I'd say the only 'essential' for Genesis is the Evolution morphs bundle, just as you needed the Morphs++ packs in Gen 3 and Gen 4 (and needed them whether you used Poser or Studio). With those morphs you have access to all Genesis releases, can use Gen 4 skins on Genesis and Autofit will handle Gen 4 clothing just fine (shoes being a minor exception). Add GenX and its figure packs and you can use all of your Gen 3 clothing as well, and convert Gen 3 and 4 figure morphs to work with Genesis. That's one extra tool to make all of your previous generations content usable, which wasn't an option we got for Gen 3 when Gen 4 came out. I'm not criticising Poser users who don't want to take the plunge, that's a valid decision, but it's misleading to claim Genesis needs a lot of tools to be usable in Studio, when in fact it is more compatible with previous generation content out of the box than any figure preceding it.

    if you have read and listen to what has been said in the forums that has been a big turn off to a lot of customers

    Unfortunately there has been a lot of misinformation about Genesis. There is a valid point that it is more difficult to use in Poser, but a lot of information about how usable it is in Studio and what can and cannot be done has been just plain wrong.


    I personally love the looks of some of the new gen5 & genesis clothing that has come out. But if i can't share the runtime file with my poser program then why spend money on it. I have read this same complaint in other forums as well. So i know others have felt the same way.. this maybe why you see such a big difference in product releases from different sites, compared to daz site. People only have so much money.

    The difference in volume has always been there, it isn't down to Genesis.

    Post edited by DWG on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 3,833
    edited December 1969

    @ Ivy Summer - much of what you have said is debatable, I have plugins for Poser that work in Poser 8 but do not work in Poser 9 or 2012, I will have to rebuy them if I ever feel inclined to use Poser.

    I find using Gen4 stuff and Gen3 stuff with Genesis pretty straightforward, much easier than I've ever found any other conversion system.

    Personally I find it easy compared to Poser to get things to look good in DS. I find DS4 easier to use than DS3 and so very much better than Poser.

    Daz have never released the amount that other sites do so laying the blame at Genesis' feet is not really accurate.

    You might also be surprised at how many people do use DS4 and are happy with it, the market is not so very small; but as from a vendors point of view at least you won't be competing against numerous other vendors in the same market producing the same sort of thing.

    Although you begin your statement with a declaration that you have no wish to put down DS your words say things quite different, your opinion is simply that - your opinion - not fact.
    My opinions as I have stated contradict yours completely.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,012
    edited July 2012

    DWG said:

    Older versions of Daz such as Daz 3 and Daz 2 could use poser compatibility products,. genesis not so much. you really have to work with genesis to get older gen4 products to work with it.

    That's plain wrong, I'm afraid,


    This really needs a like button.


    Genesis has nothing to do with the number of releases or anything else from the quoted post, simply due to the fact that the same amount of content was released to the store prior to Genesis. Like others have said before in this thread, it's really down to getting a product approved, and going through QA, and artwork stages... each of which takes time due to the staff available to handle the product. Sometimes, QA catches something, or maybe something in the product needs to be changed, added or removed. Then sometimes a promo needs to be redone or changed. All that takes time and resources to go from submission to release, which reaction or speculation due to Genesis has nothing to do with.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,246
    edited December 1969

    As a long time poser user i have to agree completely with DWG, but I also feel your workflow comes down to what renderer you are going to use. If you are dead set on the firefly renderer in poser, then it is harder to get things to work with genesis and genesis content in poser, BUT not impossible.
    I prefer using Luxrender over Firefly and as such with DS4 pro being free and GenX there is no technical excuse not to be able to use older/non genesis content in DS4. In fact, I find it really refreshing as my workflow has never been faster. I can load V4 with custom morphs, apply all clothing and then hit transfer active morphs and I have a perfect fit and in the case I don't, the smoothing modifier works a treat normally. I find working with genesis to be great also and with most of my V4 clothing, props and morphs. Granted, there are some things I can only do in poser and luckily i can do those in poser 2012 and either render there, or import into DS4 and render in Luxrender and the process works fine. So basically, if any user isn't really going to take the small effort to learn how to use the tools available in this hobby/business and only rely on point and click/do it for me types of content, they really are limiting themselves to what can be done.

    I do agree that DAZ releases tend to be few and far between and it seems they like to flood the MP when they do release something. I am an experienced user and have no problems buying content, but i have learned from experience what types of content work for me and also make things for my use also, so as a modeler i tend to be pickier on the mesh side and also the price based of that.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited July 2012


    I prefer using Luxrender over Firefly and as such with DS4 pro being free and GenX there is no technical excuse not to be able to use older/non genesis content in DS4. In fact, I find it really refreshing as my workflow has never been faster. I can load V4 with custom morphs, apply all clothing and then hit transfer active morphs and I have a perfect fit and in the case I don't, the smoothing modifier works a treat normally. I find working with genesis to be great also and with most of my V4 clothing, props and morphs. .

    Amen to this. Back on topic, seems like its a quality control phase holding products back. But I am a bit confused here. Mec4d new Unshaved hair sets was done a month before release, and I don't think she would release something with issues as she is very thorough in her testing. Now the culprit is pointing back to strategic release of product.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,012
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:

    Amen to this. Back on topic, seems like its a quality control thing holding products back. But I am a bit confused here. Mec4d new Unshaved hair sets was done a month before release, and I don't think she would release something witn issues as she is very thorough in her testing. Now the culprit is pointing back to strategic release of product.

    Unshaven was made by Mec4D, but is a DAZ Original... so those would follow a different release track than PA items. PA items are usually released as soon as they clear the different departments... Daz O's could be held back for release for a time in the future, such as Platinum club or March Madness.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:

    I prefer using Luxrender over Firefly and as such with DS4 pro being free and GenX there is no technical excuse not to be able to use older/non genesis content in DS4. In fact, I find it really refreshing as my workflow has never been faster. I can load V4 with custom morphs, apply all clothing and then hit transfer active morphs and I have a perfect fit and in the case I don't, the smoothing modifier works a treat normally. I find working with genesis to be great also and with most of my V4 clothing, props and morphs. .

    Amen to this. Back on topic, seems like its a quality control phase holding products back. But I am a bit confused here. Mec4d new Unshaved hair sets was done a month before release, and I don't think she would release something with issues as she is very thorough in her testing. Now the culprit is pointing back to strategic release of product.


    Mec4d turned over the product to DAZ who expanded the product on their own. She mentions this in the discussion for the product.


    Kendall

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,728
    edited December 1969

    DAZ has held several of our DO's for up to 6 months. PA products are typically released as soon as they pass QA and art approval.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 1,877
    edited July 2012

    whoa!! I wasn't trying to start a debate or a argument., I was just going by my own personal experiences. using both daz and poser.
    as I said there are pros and cons on both sides , Poser has Alyson where daz do not etc etc. so what? this was not my comment I was making.
    I did not make my comment to start this debate. because its a no win situation and will only get this thread removed or locked.. My comment was to answer why there are more venders releasing products at other sites
    Renderosity caters to a wider range of products programs poser, vue and 3dmax. etc. and Daz caters to daz & genesis. What part of this answer could not be understood? did i word it wrong? I maybe have been winded in making my comment but its pretty obvious to see it true.
    Like I said I'm not bashing Daz4 or genesis if you like it great. a lot of people do and a lot of people like poser just as well. so what? this was not my comment to this thread.

    As a User of both daz and poser products if I can't share it in my poser runtime I don't buy the products and I sorry if that upsets anyone. but i just have so much money. and i like both programs i use now. daz3a and poser I can not afford to start buying for a new library of genesis smart content that poser can not use. I think you will see most people feel that way also. that have the free version of daz4pro and paid for versions of Poser.

    Again I'm sorry if my comment upset anyone it wasn't meant to start a poser/daz compatibility debate


    edited for spelling 2 time sorry dyslexia is showing. and now i see the spell check tool ..lol

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited July 2012

    Nobody got upset lol. They just corrected a lot of what you said because it was based on speculation OR personal experience.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,012
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Nobody got upset lol. They just corrected a lot of what you said because it was based on speculation OR personal experience.

    Also it really wasn't related to topic of the thread. ;)

  • edited December 1969

    Only my opinion of course, but QA. And I often buy here because I know they put PAs through a lot to get the best possible products. They've had some hiccups when putting installers together, but the products are imo very good. I've had some disappointments from other sites, and I've returned a few products here, but the difference is, I've returned a few products here. So I can buy confidently from here, and they want to make sure to keep the returns to a minimum.

  • ColdrakeColdrake Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The reason Rendo puts out so many products is that pretty much anybody can put products in their store, not so at DAZ.


    Coldrake

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,567
    edited December 1969

    DAZ’s QA program.


    Anyone who has kept up with PA’s comments over the years has seen the mentions of “still in DAZ QA” or “I have to redo something because DAZ QA found ...”

    Yup.. and it is because DAZ has an awesome and wonderful QA team. I've been super lucky to work with some really great people through the QA process. And unlike other sites where the process may just be pass/fail my QA people have actually worked with me. Sometimes it has been to push me to add something I didn't think of. Or buff up a product description. And of course there are potential fixes. I regularly redo promos here that would pass with flying colors somewhere else and that adds time as well.

    DAZ also accepts less than other brokerages overall. Already being a PA does not mean they will accept the product and getting your foot in the door is not as easy as it may be elsewhere.

  • 3D Toons3D Toons Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    I go for D......


    D. The demands put on the vendor to release an item at the DAZ store is much higher then anywhere else.


    I've been contemplaiting releasing items through DAZ a few times. But once I've read through aal the publishing info, steps and demands I've already had enough and lost the desire for being a PA at DAZ. My whole vendor experience at RDNA wasn't pleasant at all, due to all the demands, steps and regulations. If I release a product, I don't want someone to tell me to tweak this render or that little detail in the product to make it sell better. I don't want to go through all kinds of steps and needing to stick to all kinds of regulations to get my products out there. Sure, if it doesn't work as intended or it's missing items, I like to hear about that, but that's as far as I go, I don't need someone to make requests for changes to the promo imagery and even suggestions for enhancements to the products. This is my hobby, it's fun for me and I intend to keep it that way.


    The only people that can change my mind about a product I'm creating or make suggestions, are my customers and they sure do. I'm not able to do everything they wish, but I'll do my best and even create completely customer requested items on a regular base. Still within my style and abilities of course.


    Since it's a hobby for my, all the rules at DAZ scare me and I'm sure that happens to other vendors. I rather go to a place that will test my product for faults and missing items and let me be myself, but perhaps not get as many sales as I could have gotten at the place that meddles in my business more than I bargained for. I prefer a pleasant experience above a little more sales. I'd love to publish at DAZ, but the whole submission ordeal is too much for me.


    DAZ's QA program.

    Anyone who has kept up with PA's comments over the years has seen the mentions of "still in DAZ QA" or "I have to redo something because DAZ QA found ..."

    Since DAZ's return policy is better than any other, they must be more careful not to allow bad items in the store. There are costs involved with refunding money.

    Even with the recent "issues" DAZ's QA crew is Lightyears ahead of the others.

    Kendall


    Not sure if DAZ's QA crew is really lightyears ahead of others, RDNA is throrough when it comes to testing and is as good as DAZ's QA crew.


    The reason Rendo puts out so many products is that pretty much anybody can put products in their store, not so at DAZ.

    Coldrake


    That's not true at all, Rendo does test products and they do a pretty good job at it and they do reject items, not everyone gets in.. They just have different demands then DAZ does, they go about it differently. At leas they give everyone a chance, in contrary to DAZ, who doesn't allow many to publish and keeps wonderful products away from their customers.


    In all the years I've been buying content, the only store I returned items to because they were faulty or had missing items, has been DAZ. I've bought about as much on Rendo, RDNA and a little less at CP and I never had to return a faulty or incomplete product there.

    Post edited by 3D Toons on
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 2,340
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    I buy 95+% of my stuff at DAZ because every time I've shopped at a different store, it's turned out to be mediocre or worse. I appreciate the QA process at DAZ immensely; nearly everything they put out is a quality product. It may not be a quality product that *I* want, but I have confidence that it's a solid product.


    Now if only the store and forums had been treated as DAZ products and put through the same level of QA... I jest, testing a site under load is completely different both in skill set and scale than testing a 3D model or texture set.


    I'm more than okay with the release pace; I make a good bit of money in my day job, but if I spent more on DAZ than I already do, I'd be...well, my family would stage an intervention. ;)


    -- Morgan

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    3D Toons said:

    DAZ's QA program.

    Anyone who has kept up with PA's comments over the years has seen the mentions of "still in DAZ QA" or "I have to redo something because DAZ QA found ..."

    Since DAZ's return policy is better than any other, they must be more careful not to allow bad items in the store. There are costs involved with refunding money.

    Even with the recent "issues" DAZ's QA crew is Lightyears ahead of the others.

    Kendall


    Not sure if DAZ's QA crew is really lightyears ahead of others, RDNA is throrough when it comes to testing and is as good as DAZ's QA crew.


    As a customer, I have to disagree. EVERYTHING I've ever bought from RDNA has been substandard or outright crap. In my experience, RDNA is at the bottom of the places I will buy from. Just below Content Paradise.


    Kendall

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,523
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:

    Amen to this. Back on topic, seems like its a quality control phase holding products back. But I am a bit confused here. Mec4d new Unshaved hair sets was done a month before release, and I don't think she would release something with issues as she is very thorough in her testing. Now the culprit is pointing back to strategic release of product.

    It wouldn't suprise me to hear that DAZ were releasing product in a strategic manner. Given the amount of flack they have taken over the amount of Genesis stuff being released(not necessarily accurate as in my opinion they have been quite good in this respect), it wouldn't suprise me if they time what is released to ensure an equitable outcome for everyone. It would only be common sense...surely?


    In answer to the original post though, I think that DAZ prefer quality over quantity. Most of my buying is done here knowing that if I need to I can return the product. The only times I have returned product it has generally been due to my mistake of ordering something twice or (in the case of the supersuit) deciding I want to buy the bundle instead of the individual product. On occasions I have bought product elsewhere that I have thought about returning due to the mediocrity of the product but I tend to not return unless I can say the product doesn't work. In most cases it works just not at the level I had hoped for.

  • blondie9999blondie9999 Posts: 733
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Is this due to

    A. lack of vendors
    B. Quality control and testing (Been a lot of slip ups recently)
    C. Strategic time release of products.

    This is NOT a poll, I just want to know what is the strategy here if any. I look at R-osity, and their store spoils me with choice. Yes a lot of products are nothing special, but still. It is nice to have a wider selection. Daz has always been known as a content Guru, but with so few releases I wonder what is happening here? Just Popped in there again at R-osity and another 10 products added since Yesterday.

    DAZ has traditionally accepted and released far fewer products than other stores. Back when I started in 2003, it wasn't unusual for DAZ to release only five or six products per week, as compared to dozens per week at other stores. There are several reasons for that:


    1. Quality. DAZ touts itself as having "the best of the best"-- and if you're going to do that, then you need to be picky about what you accept. Some other stores seem to take the approach of, "If it's technically okay, then we'll take it." Not DAZ. At the time I started here, getting a product accepted at DAZ was considered a real achievement.


    2. Product exposure and sales. The longer a product stays on "page 1," the more exposure it gets and the more chance it has to sell. The fewer products that are released per week, the more exposure each individual product receives. At other stores, a product gets shoved off page 1 within a day or so of release, and within two or three days, it's buried so far down that it's effectively in limbo.


    3. Sales potential. The sales potential of a product has a great deal to do with whether DAZ accepts it or not. If DAZ doesn't think a product is likely to sell at least a minimum number of copies, DAZ will usually reject it. There's a reason for that: first, it costs money to review and test products, and it's more profitable to release five products that sell well than to release twenty that sell poorly. Second, poor-selling products clutter up the store and cause good products to receive less exposure.


    That policy-- accepting only quality products that were likely to sell well, keeping release numbers low to afford individual products better exposure, etc.-- was what made DAZ "the" top store. If simply throwing tons of "stuff" on the market worked, then stores like Rendosity, PoserPros, and 3DCommune would have been the top stores, and DAZ would have been far behind them.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,637
    edited July 2012

    Makes sense. But If your product is sold here it can't be sold anywhere else?

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • blondie9999blondie9999 Posts: 733
    edited December 1969

    That's right. DAZ has an "exclusivity" policy. If you put a product here, you can't put it at other stores. There are some exceptions to that, notably for reseller software, but they have to be approved by DAZ.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 2,718
    edited December 1969

    the all changes have to do with it , not everything is finished , people don't have a regular way to submit a product as before , many PA said they wait with new submission until everything have legs and arms .
    QA is on high level that is true , I always believe the quality is more important that quantity , Nobody want refunds as the fees by the banks are high at this moment preventing sellers from selling crap to people .
    I hope everything works better soon.

    and regarding to the other posts, I created a set on contract for DAZ that made later a product from, when it was released was not my business anymore and I did not had any influence on the release as it is Daz original only made by me .

    if I submitted my product and have to wait one month for release I would be gone from here for sure ..as it don't sound as serious business right? plus we have summer and more vendor are active outside that inside , I just finished my own vacation last week and tomorrow back on track again .. maybe that is the reason why not much new products show lately in the store , people need just little break from the screen :)

    Cath

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,567
    edited December 1969

    Saying there isn't a regular way to submit isn't exactly true. Yes it is different than before, but in some ways I find it better.

Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel