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Tree question
Posted: 16 February 2014 08:50 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I know it is not in the tree list but can I assume that it can still be made when it comes to a specific Pine tree? Where I live in the southeastern USA, we have what is called Long Leaf Pine trees. Like in the pic below. Is it possible to make something close enough for 3D backgrounds?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41460075@N08/3996071792/in/photostream/

Thanks,
theschemer

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Posted: 17 February 2014 10:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Sadly the Tree Lab in Bryce, although useful isn’t always useful enough.
In this case I strongly suspect you won’t be able to create a tree with those proportions. I had a go tonight and I certainly couldn’t.

However, a quick look round shows one of Xfrog’s trees to look similar if not exactly the same and the good news is that it’s one of the Free sample trees (the slightly less good news is that as a rule Xfrog trees are very render intensive).

http://xfrog.com/product/JA01.html

Xfrog plants and trees are always top quality, highly detailed and much more natural looking than Bryce trees. That comes at a price with all the leaves (usually several layers of two or three different types/shapes) utilising alpha channel transparency, therefore increasing the render times severely.

Hope this helps.

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Posted: 18 February 2014 02:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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@theschemer - Dve is quite right about the Bryce Tree Lab. It is more versatile than many have discovered. There are limitations, though and I also doubt that you can achieve pine trees with high stems and a short crown above. We have them here, too. Not exactly the same but quite similar. Pano 1 and Pano 2. XFrog has indeed great trees but as Dave pointed out, use rectangular pictures for the leaves that get their form from the transparent channel.

An alternative would be Arbaro http://arbaro.sourceforge.net/. It is written in Java and should run on any operating system. It is free. Trees can be exported in Wavefront OBJ as well, that’s the one Bryce can digest best.

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Posted: 18 February 2014 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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@TheSavage64: Thanks for trying to make that tree and confirming it is probably not possible. Although playing with the tree editor was fun, I was getting nowhere trying to make that particular tree. The free tree you linked to looks like a nice tree but is not like the one I need. I may get it anyway as it may come in handy in the background or a different project. Here is some better info and pics on the tree I am trying to create:
http://www.carolinanature.com/trees/pipa.html

I appreciate you taking the time to verify my concerns. smile

@Horo: Thanks for the link to the other tree making app. I will play around with it and see what I can do with it. You have some nice trees over there. Are you in Sweden or Switzerland? I thought I had seen that somewhere on your website maybe? I bought a Jonsereds chain saw many years ago. Great saw. smile
Thanks,
theschemer

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Posted: 18 February 2014 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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theschemer - 18 February 2014 08:38 AM

@TheSavage64: Thanks for trying to make that tree and confirming it is probably not possible. Although playing with the tree editor was fun, I was getting nowhere trying to make that particular tree. The free tree you linked to looks like a nice tree but is not like the one I need. I may get it anyway as it may come in handy in the background or a different project. Here is some better info and pics on the tree I am trying to create:
http://www.carolinanature.com/trees/pipa.html

I appreciate you taking the time to verify my concerns. smile

@Horo: Thanks for the link to the other tree making app. I will play around with it and see what I can do with it. You have some nice trees over there. Are you in Sweden or Switzerland? I thought I had seen that somewhere on your website maybe? I bought a Jonsereds chain saw many years ago. Great saw. smile
Thanks,
theschemer

great looking tree - just have to look out my windows

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Posted: 18 February 2014 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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theschemer - 18 February 2014 08:38 AM

@TheSavage64: Thanks for trying to make that tree and confirming it is probably not possible. Although playing with the tree editor was fun, I was getting nowhere trying to make that particular tree. The free tree you linked to looks like a nice tree but is not like the one I need. I may get it anyway as it may come in handy in the background or a different project. Here is some better info and pics on the tree I am trying to create:
http://www.carolinanature.com/trees/pipa.html

I appreciate you taking the time to verify my concerns. smile

Well I downloaded the Arbaro software that Horo linked to, surprised it works on my Mac but it does and it’s looking like fun at the moment.
It’s a bit complex and will take some getting used to all the different parameters you can set to alter every aspect of the tree you create.
So with your tree in mind and looking at some of the other images of the Longleaf Pine on the internet, I managed to get this rough shape.
I’m still struggling with the leaf parameters (needles require that bit of extra work) so I exported the tree with no leaves. It imported into Bryce easily and didn’t trip the Instancing Lab up when I used literally a few mouse clicks to make the forest.

It’s only a rough render, but if I can manage this in half an afternoon, I’m sure you’d be able to get much better results with some practice.
It’s certainly worth having Arbaro in your toolbox.

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Posted: 18 February 2014 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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@TheSavage64: Nice job so far on that. I too downloaded that software and looked at it long enough to know I need to spend more time with it. smile I found a few video’s online so I got a quick look at what it can do. I made a quick tree to understand the app and where the files go and how to export etc and didn’t even think it was working at first as it was so fast. More complex tree will be slower I guess but I was impressed so far. I sure have a lot of new software’s to spend time with and stay out of trouble.
Thanks,
theschemer

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Posted: 18 February 2014 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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@Dave - those trees came out quite nice. Yeah, I expected Arbaro works on the Mac since it is programmed in Java.

@theschemer - Switzerland, not Sweden; more precisely in the valley of the river Rhone.

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Posted: 18 February 2014 03:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Hi Guys;

I am an idiot - I downloaded the Arbaro program that Horo talked about and other people apparently now able to use, But for the life of me I cannot get the program to start. I downloaded and unzipped the files twice, but when I try to click on the GUI listed, all I get is error messages. I know the program is written in JAVA and I must admit it has been awhile since I messed with JAVA which is installed on my system.

Any ideas what I may be doing wrong trying to get this program to start or run. I am running WIN 7 Pro 64 bit.

Thanks guys - looks like a good program if I can ever get it to run.

Bruce

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Posted: 18 February 2014 04:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Hi Bruce… Sorry can’t help specifically because I’m on a Mac here, but the ReadMe file that comes with the app says this:

“You need Java 1.4.x and Povray 3.5 be installed.”

Now I presume if you’re only using it to export .obj files that Povray isn’t necessary, but just check your Java is 1.4

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Posted: 18 February 2014 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Kind of got some needles on the trees…. not exactly right but some tweaking could get them more accurate.

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Posted: 19 February 2014 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Those are getting pretty close, Savage. Are you doing the foliage in Arbaro as well? I downloaded it (thanks for the tip, Horo), but haven’t installed or tried it out yet. The problem that I have with most tree models available is that they seem to be based upon open-grown individuals - the kind that you would find in a park or on someone’s lawn. This may be understandable, since those are easier to get a good look at. Forest=grown trees tend to have a different form, of course, with few live branches on the lower boles and smaller crowns near the top. But they’re harder to get a good look at - difficult to see the trees for the forest in a manner of speaking. smile

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Posted: 19 February 2014 02:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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@ Savage

Thanks for the info my friend. Finally got the program to work (Sort of) after playing around with Java and POVRay programs. I must say the program has a few glitches and tends to want to save trees in odd places even after I saved the destination locations. Also ran into several errors when trying to export, but did manage to make a few trees if you can call them that.

All told tho, interesting program and well worth playing around with in the long run to learn the quirks of the program. Thanks again for the info. By the way, really love the trees you have done so far - all I have been able to export so far is 3 trees with minimal leaves on them - Sort of like a naked tree in winter with a few holdout leaves.

Have a great day!

Bruce

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Posted: 19 February 2014 02:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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TheSavage64 - 18 February 2014 06:12 PM

Kind of got some needles on the trees…. not exactly right but some tweaking could get them more accurate.

This is a nice alternative to Bryce and Xfrog trees and I’m going to give a try to this program. Thanks to Horo and to you Savage, your demonstrations are very convincing.

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Posted: 19 February 2014 05:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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SixDs: Yes, you’re right about trees grown in forests. This programme allows you to start the branches from any point up the trunk and to ‘prune’ the canopy to any shape you require. So it looks like it’s ideal for creating forest trees.
Also if you notice the Special Trees that come with Bryce are in fact two different trees grouped together, you could even use a similar technique and make one main tree with high up branches and a thinner and shorter tree with short stubby branches and scarce foliage, then place one over the other in Bryce and group them together.

Yes, the foliage is also created in Arbaro. As with much of the programme, there are plenty of parameters to get the individual foliage the correct shape as well as the tweak the coverage, but it does much like Xfrog apply the leaves in a spiral pattern.


Bruce: Yes, I noticed that when saving and exporting the programme doesn’t remember the path you use and I’ve already made the mistake of overwriting one of the original preset trees with one I’d radically altered, as such I no longer have a the Poplar tree, but I can of course, just unzip the download again and copy another unedited copy of it onto the trees folder in the application file.


C-ram: I’m sure someone with your skill at creating natural looking scenes that are well populated with vegetation will have the application singing and dancing in no time. I look forward to seeing what you get it to do.

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Posted: 19 February 2014 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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check this out - the trees work in Bryce - Carrara - DS - I use the free to learn version
http://www.plantfactory-tech.com/download/

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