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breaks in rendering causes black frames

edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

This hasn't happened in the past tho similar troubles have trashed efforts.

If I have to stop the rendering for some reason, that saved segment has for some reason blank or black frames at the end. So of course, this messes up the smooth flow into the next segment (that was rendered separately.) It doesn't always do this and
don't think it's supposed to anyway. Is there a way to prevent those black frames from inserting themselves?
They themselves make too short of a clip so you can't clip them off (unless they had ultra zoom or something) as you'll lose the tail end of the animation itself. So each time the rendering stops, for whatever reason, I have to start at the beginning. This particular (8 sec) ani may take a month to render and I may have to drop it like so many others.


  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited December 1969

    I get the same thing, though sometimes that extra blank frame is white and sometimes black. I've never figured out what causes it.
    I use iMovie to edit the clips together and all I do in the video editor is to set the timeline to the last frame of the clip and then click back one frame and cut the clip at that point, then delete the extra frame. I've never noticed a jump in the animation because of this.

    It shouldn't be a problem as long as you're rendering your Bryce animation at 24 frames per second and your video editor is also set at 24 frames per second.

  • edited February 2014

    Am I right in thinking or seeing that Bryce sets it at 15 fps as Default? I may have changed this in the past but have been at that setting for the most part.

    Apart from "other settings" in WMP I don't see how to set it at 24 fps. I know I should be using something other. Someone else may have mentioned iMovie. Does it have the effects WMP has (tho this ain't saying much)?

    I need a slow motion feature that when used, doesn't play back as a series of jerked frames. WMP dies this and I don't think it's memory as it plays same in other players.

    I am in overwhelm mode, having been viewing vids in Dreamlight's model master course. Overwhelm in both inferior tech, eye strain and lapses in sanity. It's quite amazing the models some folks can make with these very programs. Learning these basics seem akin to expecting to learn a foreign language with one little book.

    So, I hope to get this camcorder up and running so I can make a shift into capturing live footage to splice into my animations. Tho I paid for the course I can't see myself making say a tank with Carrera. It's so involved that I had the whim last night....

    Of someone arriving at a prison to learn he will be set free if and when he can figure out how to use one of these programs cold and make a real nice model. The way some of these are, I doubt it's possible without exclusive directions.

    Oh yes. I know it involves the space bar but how exactly do you render in mesh only? Rather, I'm wondering how to render in mesh with a chosen background. Don't think this can be done.

    Post edited by mpam76895_15961369c9 on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited December 1969

    Sorry, I know nothing about WMP. However you should be able to tell by exporting a one second clip of animation and importing it in to WMP. Then look at the time code and see if it is in increments of 24 (typically a one second clip will read as something like 00.00.24)
    My version of iMovie (or at least the one I use for editing (the older iMovieHD) has a bunch of third party plug-ins I bought that expands it's capabilities a hundred fold in respect of video effects including hundreds of transitions, type effects and video effects.

    However, slow motion is always going to be a problem if the frame rate of your animation doesn't match up to the frame rate of your video editor. And as animations from Bryce are just a series of still images, if you start slowing them down, it will jerk. One way around this is to double the frame rate in Bryce, but that will come at a cost. Rendering at 48 frames per second is going to leave you with even longer render times. Of course the other thing you can do is just slow your Bryce animation down by making each clip twice as long at 24fps... but that will have the same effect as rendering it at 48 and then slowing it down in an editor.

  • edited December 1969

    Sorry, I meant to say Windows Movie Maker.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited December 1969

    Yup, it's still got Windows in it's title... I know nothing about it :cheese:

  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,061
    edited February 2014

    kzerial...have done most animations in Bryce, and while the odd glitch does occur sometimes, say, the avi doesn't save (a killer after waiting several hours for a long animtion to finish), or, at one time, the screen divided up into four separate quadrants, I've never had the dropping of frames at the end.

    Savage is right: you should nearly always have the frame rate at 24 fps (in Bryce 6.3 it's default is set at 15 fps, while in Bryce 7.0 it's at 24 fps). If you want slowmotion, then set the rate high, like savage again suggests, takes ages - depending, of course, on the mesh detail and lighting and render options you set...etc.

    As for Windows Movie Maker (WMM), that's an old version (the most recent is Windows Live Movie Maker WLMM), but do a Google/YouTube search and someone will have WMM covered e.g. here. As to dropping frames, it should be easy in WMM (or WLMM) using the Edit/Split options availalble.

    I used to use WLMM a lot initially, and while it's not that bad (after all it comes free with most Windows 7 computers), I upgraded to another editing software (Sony Vegas Pro Platinum 11). It's not that bad either and has more options available than WLMM, but sometimes I use both, as transitions, or FX...etc., in one is better than the other. The only thing why I got Sony is that it suited by pocket, as some softwares out there are enormously expensive, where you end up not using 90 percent of their capabilities.

    With editing softwares like above you can always shorten/lenthen the clip, but it will come at a price; expecially in adjusting a normal 24 fps video to, say, slow motion, where if you stretch it out too much, it becomes jerky. Hope that helps?


    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • edited December 1969

    Thanks I'll check into that. I've been thinking of getting Corel's vid editor.

    But what about the mesh rendering? Someone said to press the space bar just before rendering. That's not quite right as I tried it. It does involve the space bar but at a specific time. I'm wondering if I can render in mesh mode while using a specific background. But this is wanting and eating the cake apparently.

    I'll have to waive 24 fps for now. As mentioned I'm rendering an 8 sec ani currently at 15. Ie., 2 frames rendered in 24 hours. This will take weeks... and how many More times will I have to reboot and loose it all? Saving, too easy!

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited February 2014

    To render your animation as a wireframe, you set up the Render Animation window as you'd usually do and then click the SHIFT key at the same time as you click the Tick to leave the Animation set up window.
    As far as I know you don't get any indication that your render is actually rendering.

    But before you start rendering, you really need to look into optimising your scene and materials if two frames are taking 24 hours, I guess your material, animation and render settings aren't optimised at all.

    I rarely have static single frame renders taking more than an hour. For animation a lot of the detail put into static renders isn't necessary and you can get away with much less refinement.

    Would it be possible for you to post one of the frames you've rendered so we can get a feel for how complex your scene is? and we can probably help you to optimise it and get your render times right down to a much more manageable level.


    Post edited by Dave Savage on
  • edited February 2014

    Meant to say shift. So it appears you can't have a chosen background in mesh render mode. Guess I'd need after effects.

    I am using Bryce in ways it wasn't meant really. I've a slow connection to. The pattern, in overall concept, is akin to those computer generated patterns you find as boarder and background to say one dollar bills. That intricate. So I realize I'm pushing it so can wait due to that. Only sucks if the pc reboots itself. So as to what we find mostly at this site, I'm much into creating psychedelic or magical effects, though with a specific theme. I'm sure you want to know more. But if you know a tweak or two by all means tho I don;t want to loose too much detail.

    This short intricate ani will hopefully be a brief scene looking into a chamber (within a lab) where a slew of nested waves (based on Dr. John Dee's Enochian system of angelic invocation that used grids or tables with neat looking magical letters) are weaving to create a virtual informational womb to incubate a strand of artificially created, or scalar manipulated dna. That is, virtual and digitized genetic manipulation. Rather, and more freaky, a code encoded into the (partially manifested) life force matrix itself! Thus (of course) enabling the potential of very specific genetic information to exist for eternity. Meaning carrying over into another universe and beyond. Details at 6:10.....doh.

    Post edited by mpam76895_15961369c9 on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited December 1969

    Not really bothered what the concept is... Just wanted to see what it looked like to find ways to optimise it.
    Optimisation doesn't necessarily mean a loss in quality.

    Screen grabs of your document and render settings would help too.

  • edited December 1969

    It is a miracle I didn't have to log in again. I enjoyed typing the concept....

    As for the torture, it may also be that by rendering, my online surfing or ability to surf gets limited. Not really sure but both verizon and my isp say the lines are fine. I noted a few weeks back that if I rebooted (while rendering this hard stuff) I could surf. So it may be a severe memory thingy. If not, then it's the nsa.

    Hate to say it but that avatar reminds me of my uncle. Are you 64 or born therein? I'm 52 and I still can't believe it.

    Thanks for the help in any case. Some of this may be on the back burner once I get this cam up and running.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 5,186
    edited December 1969

    @kzerial - online surfing: I experience what you describe at odd times as well. Rebooting the router has always solved the problem. The strange thing is that streaming music isn't affected, neither are FTP or SFTP sessions, but HTTP and SHTTP sessions are.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,224
    edited December 1969

    kzerial said:
    Hate to say it but that avatar reminds me of my uncle. Are you 64 or born therein? I'm 52 and I still can't believe it.

    I am told I was born in 64... I guess that makes me...errr... some age or other... I don't like to talk about it. :lol:
  • edited December 1969

    Well um, check. You guys seem pretty cool tho.....

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