Bryce 7 compatible with mac lion

sstamatessstamates Posts: 0
edited March 2013 in Bryce Discussion

Is Bryce 7 ever going to be compatible with lion? With Mountain Lion being released soon Mac users would appreciate an upfront answer so we can move on with our software decisions. Not corporate spin. This holding pattern is getting old. A. No we will never support Mac OS after 10.6 or B. Our projected date will be ?????? (please be realistic).
I posed this same question in January (7 mo).

Thank You

Post edited by Chohole on
«13

Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,393
    edited July 2012

    DAZ_BFurner did state in one of his posts that as soon as Bryce comes back into the dev cycle then they would be working on getting the OS X Lion compliance into B7. However we still do not have a time scale for this.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/2603/#33731

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • plaid_hippoplaid_hippo Posts: 4
    edited December 1969

    So does this explain why my fresh install of Bryce on my new Macbook Pro Retina simply "unexpectedly quits" every time I try to launch? I didn't realize Bryce was this far behind the other programs in development and support. Any extra info would be greatly appreciated.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,393
    edited December 1969

    Bryce 7 currently doesn't work with OS X Lion. This is highlighted in tthe tech specs.

    http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-tech-specs/

  • sstamatessstamates Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Agreed stated in your tech specs but, considering the newest versions of bryce were always for Mac first PC second why would anyone check the specs when you upgraded your mac? There should be a disclaimer on Bryce site that it is not compatible to Lion not just in tech specs. This is very important piece of information and it feels like it was hidden in those 5pt disclaimers on the back of a form say we are not responsible for anything. I understand about your dev cycle but it has been months and still nothing not even a glimmer that this issue will even be resolved.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    sstamates said:
    Agreed stated in your tech specs but, considering the newest versions of bryce were always for Mac first PC second why would anyone check the specs when you upgraded your mac? There should be a disclaimer on Bryce site that it is not compatible to Lion not just in tech specs. This is very important piece of information and it feels like it was hidden in those 5pt disclaimers on the back of a form say we are not responsible for anything. I understand about your dev cycle but it has been months and still nothing not even a glimmer that this issue will even be resolved.

    Because things happen. The reason why Bryce 7 is not working with OSX Lion is because as I recall OSX Lion came out after Bryce 7 Pro was released. Then as I also understand it Daz was trying to address it so it could issue an update but then Daz lost their Bryce/MAC guy. Without him they were essentially dead in the water and so for the current developement cycle a MAC solution for Bryce was shelved. Since it has been stated that next developement cycle they'll be working on it again I would take that to mean Daz has aquired a new Bryce/MAC guy?

    In the meantime I've heard of two solutions that allow you to run a windows like environment to run Bryce 7 in on a MAC with OSX Lion. However since I know next to nothing about MAC's I'll just leave it at that rather then suggest further other then to suggest you look more through the forum as it was here that I've seen people talk about these solutions.

  • jesterhawkjesterhawk Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Bryce 7 currently doesn't work with OS X Lion. This is highlighted in tthe tech specs.

    http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-tech-specs/
    Yeah the only down side to that was that was not in the specs when Lion came out and I upgraded on the first day. it was like two months later that it was added. I might not have upgraded because I love this program.

    Oh well, not the first time I have had to wait for Bryce to be updated since I have been with Bryce since v2. LOL!!

    JH

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,393
    edited December 1969

    I have one friend whot has installed Bryce in BootCamp. There is someone else who has posted in this forum somewhere, who has it running under paralells, and even someone running it in Virtual Box.

  • lghtstrmlghtstrm Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    "One" guy to rev your software for Mac? One guy? Wow. OK, I guess I can understand it if you give the software away, but hey, I don't know about anyone else, but I would pay real money if I could get a copy of Bryce that didn't crash, overload, freakout, and came with regular updates. (Like real software does.) Now there's an idea: create great software so people will pay money for it. Then you could hire two guys.

    But seriously, why not do a survey and ask Bryce owners how much they would be willing to pay for a solid version of Bryce? Heck, do a Kickstarter for that matter. Then fix the dam thing.>:-(

    Bryce was my best friend. Just couldn't keep using it.

  • Bernard AdamsBernard Adams Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    I have one friend whot has installed Bryce in BootCamp. There is someone else who has posted in this forum somewhere, who has it running under paralells, and even someone running it in Virtual Box.

    I think i'll give 'Boot Camp' a try. I started with Bryce on Vista, loved Bryce, but hated losing everything when Vista froze-up. Then loaded Bryce onto 7. Still loved Bryce, but hated 7 even more than Vista.
    I finally saved enough to get a Mac and refuse to have any form of Windows on my Mac-book. I love not having to worry about viruses and malware.

    P.S.- I wonder if an experienced Bryce user and scripted could give DAZ a hand, for a price of course, but some of the OT's should know how to help.:)

  • palizapaliza Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Same here, I taught Bryce to my students for years now. School updated to Lion, and to the newer Bryce seven. Nothing. I will have to stick to Poser for now. What a pain..... :(

  • xcode-2154335xcode-2154335 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Hi People,

    Although it seems as the native support for Bryce 7 on Lion / Mountain Lion maybe sometime away. The use of Parallels 8 and Windows 7 definitely provides a seamless and very efficient environment to work in.

    I will admit that I am an absolute noob when it comes to Bryce. I installed Parallels 8 and created a Windows 7 PC that is integrated into the MacOS (not via a window) and from there I installed Bryce7.1, Studio4.5, Hexagon2 and all the freely downloadable addons. In the attached screen shot I have all my normal Mac apps running and also have the 3 DAZ3D applications loaded (I have a 17" i7 MBP with 16GB).

    My 2c Worth.

    Cheers.

    DAZ3D_Apps_on_Mountain_Lion_via_Parallels_8.png
    1920 x 1200 - 555K
  • scart69scart69 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Haha, ok, that probably should of been something they put in LARGE writing on the Bryce page considering many creative ppl use Macs & most use up-to-date version of the OS. Let's hope everyone hasn't migrated elsewhere by the time they pull their finger out & get it running again.

    That'll learn me to read the fine print & save myself 3 days of stuffing around ;)

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    scart69 said:
    Haha, ok, that probably should of been something they put in LARGE writing on the Bryce page considering many creative ppl use Macs & most use up-to-date version of the OS. Let's hope everyone hasn't migrated elsewhere by the time they pull their finger out & get it running again.

    That'll learn me to read the fine print & save myself 3 days of stuffing around ;)

    Oh sure, yeah they should just assume nobody reads anything like specs, requirements and the like. They should just assume everyone just haphazardly downloads things not knowing for sure if it will work or not unless you beat them over the head with a warning that a blind man couldn't miss :roll:

  • edited December 1969

    lghtstrm said:
    "One" guy to rev your software for Mac? One guy? Wow. OK, I guess I can understand it if you give the software away, but hey, I don't know about anyone else, but I would pay real money if I could get a copy of Bryce that didn't crash, overload, freakout, and came with regular updates. (Like real software does.) Now there's an idea: create great software so people will pay money for it. Then you could hire two guys.

    But seriously, why not do a survey and ask Bryce owners how much they would be willing to pay for a solid version of Bryce? Heck, do a Kickstarter for that matter. Then fix the dam thing.>:-(

    Bryce was my best friend. Just couldn't keep using it.


    I agree with you . I paid to have a full Bryce app to work on my Mac . Now, i can't anymore . It's very sad to notice Daz throwed away some of their Bryce fans .

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    Yannich said:
    lghtstrm said:
    "One" guy to rev your software for Mac? One guy? Wow. OK, I guess I can understand it if you give the software away, but hey, I don't know about anyone else, but I would pay real money if I could get a copy of Bryce that didn't crash, overload, freakout, and came with regular updates. (Like real software does.) Now there's an idea: create great software so people will pay money for it. Then you could hire two guys.

    But seriously, why not do a survey and ask Bryce owners how much they would be willing to pay for a solid version of Bryce? Heck, do a Kickstarter for that matter. Then fix the dam thing.>:-(

    Bryce was my best friend. Just couldn't keep using it.


    I agree with you . I paid to have a full Bryce app to work on my Mac . Now, i can't anymore . It's very sad to notice Daz throwed away some of their Bryce fans .

    You must like being sad to make up reasons to be sad. Daz didn't throw away Bryce Fans. They just found themselves in a situation they couldn't prevent. I'll explain to you the progression but like others you'll probably dismiss it or automatically conclude Daz shouldn't have allowed it. Okay now before we start I feel compelled to point out that Bryce intially was the creation of some very creative and ingenius people. Not the kind of people that can easily be found to hire and when you do find them they typically want more money then God because they know they are creative Geniuses. Also the core of Bryce was built around Mac base code that Apple gave up on. So really it's Apple that has created the situation where Bryce doesn't work this is proven by the fact that you can run Bryce 7 pro on a Mac machine if you use bootstrap or parallels so you can run the Windows version which people who tried it rather then sitting around crying about how mean Daz is, say works perfectly. I know I know, you didn't buy a Mac to run Windows but for now that's the only way to get Bryce running on a Mac.

    The situation is this Daz had only one guy able to work with the outdated Apple code in Bryce and also able to understand Bryce enough to take it in the direction Bryce 7 was going. Now in spite of what many people think Daz is not that big and that wealthy of a company. I've seen others scoff at the idea that Daz had only one guy qualified to make Bryce work on Macs. Fact is that development programmers cost quite a bit of money. So much so that often times they don't get hired on as a permanent employees but rather they contract themselves out for periods of time and then move on to the next project. That's what happened at Daz. Bryce was finished before Lion was released, it worked on the previous version of the Mac OS, the contract was up. So Bryce was removed from the current developement cycle and the guy that could fix the problem moved on. Then Apple released Lion which had given up on the part of their OS that allowed the old Apple code in Bryce to still work on Macs. So Bryce for Mac was dead in the water and Daz couldn't do anything because the guy capable of fixing it had moved on to his next contract. So it was decided to keep it shelved thru the next developement cycle until they could get someone in qualified to fix it. Which they have and it's been announced already that Daz's top priority for Bryce is to get it working on the latest Mac OS.

    Clearly if it was Daz's intent to throw away all the Bryce Fans running Macs they wouldn't be contracting someone to come back and fix the problem. Sorry if it's not fast enough for you but either be mad at Daz customers for not buying enough product to give Daz more money to work with in developement, some of whom then turn around and give Daz product away for free (which is illegal but a very real issue) or be mad at the developement programmers that charge an arm and a leg because they have unique skills that aren't easily replaced.

  • SarcasticaSarcastica Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Fair enough. I'm back in line. No breath holding, though. Thanks for the info.

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Apple released Lion which had given up on the part of their OS that allowed the old Apple code in Bryce to still work on Macs.

    I am *really* curious to get that explanation in more detail. If Bryce were a Rosetta applicatio, I would buy it, but most of Bryce *does* run under Lion. It just crashes in a manner that makes it non-functional (the main things being you can't enter a serial number and you can't save anything).

    And... oh, dear DAZ, *please* look at Dreamwidth and borrow a habit or two. Most importantly that of saying 'this is not working, this is why it isn't working'. Transparency. If there's a reason why there's only a handful of programmers on the planet who could fix Bryce and DAZ can't afford any of them, then I want to know. And put the word out to the programming community, because chances are that someone knows somebody and an affordable programmer could be crowdsourced... if we knew what the problem was. 'It's really really difficult and will take sooo much time and money' isn't informative. By now Apple has brought out OS 10.8, and we'll see 10.9 before DAZ might get around to fixing this...

    Right now, I have spending money. I have a money-off coupon from DAZ. I have a shiny and fast computer. And I am not buying any content because I can't use it, and speding $$$ and installing Windows just to run Bryce... no, thanks. I'd rather spend my money on other cool software, elsewhere. DAZ seems to be in the place that Corel was - having Bryce and not really wanting to do anything with it. I *like* what DAZ did with Bryce, I like DAZ 7 better than any of the previous versions (and I go back to Bryce 2), but I want it back. On my Mac. Where it belongs.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited October 2012


    I am *really* curious to get that explanation in more detail. If Bryce were a Rosetta applicatio, I would buy it, but most of Bryce *does* run under Lion. It just crashes in a manner that makes it non-functional (the main things being you can't enter a serial number and you can't save anything).

    And... oh, dear DAZ, *please* look at Dreamwidth and borrow a habit or two. Most importantly that of saying 'this is not working, this is why it isn't working'. Transparency. If there's a reason why there's only a handful of programmers on the planet who could fix Bryce and DAZ can't afford any of them, then I want to know. And put the word out to the programming community, because chances are that someone knows somebody and an affordable programmer could be crowdsourced... if we knew what the problem was. 'It's really really difficult and will take sooo much time and money' isn't informative. By now Apple has brought out OS 10.8, and we'll see 10.9 before DAZ might get around to fixing this...

    Right now, I have spending money. I have a money-off coupon from DAZ. I have a shiny and fast computer. And I am not buying any content because I can't use it, and speding $$$ and installing Windows just to run Bryce... no, thanks. I'd rather spend my money on other cool software, elsewhere. DAZ seems to be in the place that Corel was - having Bryce and not really wanting to do anything with it. I *like* what DAZ did with Bryce, I like DAZ 7 better than any of the previous versions (and I go back to Bryce 2), but I want it back. On my Mac. Where it belongs.

    I'll assume you blended your post with your quote of my post?

    Well there you go? You're not willing. I'm just saying that if it's so all important for you to be getting all indignent on a forum, because you so miss being able to use Bryce that you think companies are actually deliberately trying to piss off a large percentage of an already small market, then maybe you'd be willing to go that extra measure and do things in ways you would rather not? I mean since you so miss Bryce right?

    Now before I go any further let me say for the record I'm not affiliated with Daz in any way shape or form other then as an occasional customer. So I in no way represent Daz nor are my statements nessecerily what they would say. They are merely my observations from being a customer here for over 10 years and in the course of that time watching Daz grow, using alot of their software and talking to many fellow customers in the forums and paying attention to statements from official representatives of Daz in said forums. As I understand it the problems causing the issues with Bryce 7 Pro in the latest Mac OS also affect older versions of Bryce. This means Mac changed the ability to work with code it worked with for many years, if so then Apple broke Bryce not Daz. Which I don't get, every Mac user I know will delight in the opportunity to point out how their Mac is superior to PC's in every way. Yet my Relatively new PC with Windows 7 not only runs Bryce 7 but also Bryce 6.3, Bryce 6.1, Bryce 5.5 and Bryce 5 and I've heard of other users who are running even earlier versions of Bryce in Windows 7. If however lets say I couldn't run Bryce 7 on Windows 7 I can dual partion my c: drive and run both Windows 7 and windows XP on the same machine and still be able to run All versions of Bryce and with no real noticable difference since Bryce is currently 32 bit only. So as I see it, Daz isn't to blame for your problem and frankly you should be grateful they even have a plan to try to get it working.

    I'm guessing you think Daz is this huge company made up of hundreds of programming geniuses? It isn't. It's a company that capitalized on a new growing market of 3D art enthusiasts looking for easy to use content for their shiney new versions of Poser that comes with rather limited content. They did this by providing a venue for distributing the talented work of 3D content creators we know as vendors who pay Daz a nice percentage of their sales for the marketing an distribution of their products. In working with these products Daz came to know enough about the software that ran their products, to make something similar and Studio was born. Daz wisely gave it away for free for a long time because in so doing they opened a huge market of 3D Art enthusiasts that couldn't afford things like Poser or Bryce when it was owned by other companies. This brought in enough revenue from all these people buying lots of cheap content, often times in an addictive fashion by customers that might not ever need to make a render using that item, that Daz experienced a boom. Enough of a boom to aquire and develope Bryce and Cararra as well as take Studio to a level of actually competeing with Poser without giving it away.

    Then the economy collapsed. Suddenly people were finding out their 401K's were now 201K's and rather then the government helping them they bailed out the companies that caused the economy to fail in the first place. Not only that but the cost of energy was steadily going up during a period of very relaxed regulations that ultimately led to catastrophes like the Gulf Oil spill from the Deepwater Horizon Drill site. People started losing their jobs many of whom were overdrawn on credit and suddenly people had to start cutting out all non essential spending in order to save their homes with underwater mortgages or to put food on the table. That combined with 2 site renovations that went very poorly and a growing rift over incompatability issues with Poser and Daz's latest flagship product, Genesis. Which only just recently started to become somewhat resolved. Has caused Daz to see a very sharp decline in revenue to where they need to do everything they can, even give away their main software, just to hold onto the customers they still have and what few new ones they might attract.

    What I'm hopefully painting for you is a clear picture that Daz is not this huge organization with tons of money to throw around in a market that competes for programing skills. It's a hard world to survive in these days and programmers need to drive Porsches too because they're in demand. It's the law of capitalism, and it's downfall, the more something is in demand the more you can charge for it until you become so expensive customers can't afford it anymore. Which is where we are at now.

    I'm glad you have a shiney new computer and money to go spend on software for it, I'm even jealous, I'm one of those ones that used to spend alot here but now simply can't (although really I already have enough to keep me busy for years unless PC manufacturers follow Apple's lead and make machines that can only run a newer OS that doesn't work with the programs I spent my hard earned money aquiring). What I don't get though is why you think it's Daz's responsibility to keep up with Mac OS when they change in away that forces a complete rewrite rather then a minor patch to make use of new capabilities? Microsoft tried that with the PC world with Vista and people were so outraged over the poor capatability with older programs that they forced Microsoft to keep supporting XP until they made something that supported all the programs XP supported. So rather then spend your time trying to threaten a relatively small company into doing something faster then it's able to, maybe you should focus your rage on Apple? Maybe get them to make the next OS more backwards compatible so companies who aren't the richest company in history bringing in billions and can't easily afford a fulltime team of Mac programmers well versed in both the newer and older code, can keep up?

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'll assume you blended your post with your quote of my post?

    Looks like that's how it came out, yes.


    Well there you go? You're not willing.

    I'm willing to spend money at DAZ, yes. I'd even be willing to spend money on a working copy of Bryce, but I'm not willing to give money to Microsoft - that's where my willingness to accommodate DAZ ends.

    I'm guessing you think Daz is this huge company made up of hundreds of programming geniuses?

    Does DAZ have more than three employees in total? Yes? Then it's bigger than Dreamwidth, which I chose as a comparison for that very reason - a very small company with very limited resources who manage to keep their customer base happy by saying 'this is broken and here's the reason why, we're sorry about that.'

    I'm not asking DAZ to fix Bryce tomorrow, although they have had a very long time - Lion didn't just 'come out', developers knew about it and its features a long time before that, then it was rolled out to the market, then Mountain Lion was announced and sent off to developers, then *that* reached the market... and still there's no word from DAZ. That's worrying.

    (And thanks for the potted history of DAZ, but I'm aware of that, and I've been dropping money at DAZ for a considerable part of that period. If you think I need DAZplaining simply because the forum reset my post count, then that's your problem, not mine.)


    What I'm hopefully painting for you is a clear picture that Daz is not this huge organization with tons of money to throw around in a market that competes for programing skills.

    Hm, maybe someone at DAZ could model a nice strawman for Michael for future renders?

    What I want from DAZ at this stage is an _explanation_. I want to know why it's so difficult to fix Bryce what the problems are underneath the hood that it needs such a rare beast of a programmer to fix it. I know Kai's programming was erratic; that's well documented - but Bryce appears broken in ways that other applications under Lion aren't. And quite frankly, when I see an application that runs until it executes a certain command, I don't think 'the whole codebase needs fixing' I think 'you've got a bug here'. And it happens to be in an unfortunate place.


    I'm glad you have a shiney new computer and money to go spend on software for it, I'm even jealous, I'm one of those ones that used to spend alot here but now simply can't

    Been there, done that, will probably do it again; which is why I'd love to show my love for the companies I want to support now that I'm in a position to do so.

    What I don't get though is why you think it's Daz's responsibility to keep up with Mac OS when they change in away that forces a complete rewrite rather then a minor patch to make use of new capabilities?

    You say that as if you know the details. OK, so share the details with me - what is it about Lion that has broken the code as it was before? Don't be afraid that you'll be talking over my head - I'm a programmer, albeit on a much smaller scale, so any technical explanation you have, I will understand, or at least be able to look up.

    Maybe get them to make the next OS more backwards compatible

    There were a lot of discussions among developers when Lion was first in the development cycle, and a lot of grumbling about dropped Rosetta support (which made me unhappy, but I could see the point) - they turned up with a system that is smaller, faster, and more stable while still supporting _most_ of the software that runs on this processor. That's pretty good going. Your short answer is that I'm not angry because I understand the technical reasons behind the decision.

    I want the same from DAZ. If this bug is so major that it takes more than two years to fix it, there needs to be a good explanation for it. Bryce is a fantastic entry-level drug for would-be DAZ users - within minutes you can make something cool even without reading a manual - and I want to see it back.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    I'll assume you blended your post with your quote of my post?

    Looks like that's how it came out, yes.


    Well there you go? You're not willing.

    I'm willing to spend money at DAZ, yes. I'd even be willing to spend money on a working copy of Bryce, but I'm not willing to give money to Microsoft - that's where my willingness to accommodate DAZ ends.

    I'm guessing you think Daz is this huge company made up of hundreds of programming geniuses?

    Does DAZ have more than three employees in total? Yes? Then it's bigger than Dreamwidth, which I chose as a comparison for that very reason - a very small company with very limited resources who manage to keep their customer base happy by saying 'this is broken and here's the reason why, we're sorry about that.'

    I'm not asking DAZ to fix Bryce tomorrow, although they have had a very long time - Lion didn't just 'come out', developers knew about it and its features a long time before that, then it was rolled out to the market, then Mountain Lion was announced and sent off to developers, then *that* reached the market... and still there's no word from DAZ. That's worrying.

    (And thanks for the potted history of DAZ, but I'm aware of that, and I've been dropping money at DAZ for a considerable part of that period. If you think I need DAZplaining simply because the forum reset my post count, then that's your problem, not mine.)


    What I'm hopefully painting for you is a clear picture that Daz is not this huge organization with tons of money to throw around in a market that competes for programing skills.

    Hm, maybe someone at DAZ could model a nice strawman for Michael for future renders?

    What I want from DAZ at this stage is an _explanation_. I want to know why it's so difficult to fix Bryce what the problems are underneath the hood that it needs such a rare beast of a programmer to fix it. I know Kai's programming was erratic; that's well documented - but Bryce appears broken in ways that other applications under Lion aren't. And quite frankly, when I see an application that runs until it executes a certain command, I don't think 'the whole codebase needs fixing' I think 'you've got a bug here'. And it happens to be in an unfortunate place.


    I'm glad you have a shiney new computer and money to go spend on software for it, I'm even jealous, I'm one of those ones that used to spend alot here but now simply can't

    Been there, done that, will probably do it again; which is why I'd love to show my love for the companies I want to support now that I'm in a position to do so.

    What I don't get though is why you think it's Daz's responsibility to keep up with Mac OS when they change in away that forces a complete rewrite rather then a minor patch to make use of new capabilities?

    You say that as if you know the details. OK, so share the details with me - what is it about Lion that has broken the code as it was before? Don't be afraid that you'll be talking over my head - I'm a programmer, albeit on a much smaller scale, so any technical explanation you have, I will understand, or at least be able to look up.

    Maybe get them to make the next OS more backwards compatible

    There were a lot of discussions among developers when Lion was first in the development cycle, and a lot of grumbling about dropped Rosetta support (which made me unhappy, but I could see the point) - they turned up with a system that is smaller, faster, and more stable while still supporting _most_ of the software that runs on this processor. That's pretty good going. Your short answer is that I'm not angry because I understand the technical reasons behind the decision.

    I want the same from DAZ. If this bug is so major that it takes more than two years to fix it, there needs to be a good explanation for it. Bryce is a fantastic entry-level drug for would-be DAZ users - within minutes you can make something cool even without reading a manual - and I want to see it back.

    Wow, you sure make alot of assumptions like that I know specific details after I made it clear what I've told you thus far is all third hand info I've picked up from countless discussions. I've told you all I know and I seriously doubt anybody who might respond here in these forums is going to be able to tell you much more until Bryce comes back into the developement cycle. The official word from Daz is as soon as it does come back into the Dev cycle fixing Bryce for OSX Lion and above is the first prioroty.

    I'm curious though, I pointed out to you that the word in the forums is this problem exist for all versions of Bryce not just Bryce 7. If so then it isn't Daz that changed something it's Apple. Which as you've said, which matches what I've heard others say, is that Apple removed Rosetta Support.

    Given that Apple is now the richest company in US history they have plenty of money to throw around. So again you should be going to Apple for timely satisfaction on this issue. The key issue for Daz based on everything that is known is that they can't afford to keep the person able to do the job on staff full time. Which was true even before the recent events that have caused a significant decline in revenue for Daz. As for Dreamwidth, well lets not go comparing apples to oranges. Just because a 3 man company can tell you why a particular problem exists for something they make doesn't mean every small company can tell you why a particular problem exists for the things they make. Given that they can't do anything without this one particular guy and their official statement is that getting it to work with OSX Lion or above is their first priority, that's a pretty clear indication they're not entirely sure of what the problem is.

    Anyway I've told you all I can tell you and clearly by your responses you only hear what you want to hear.

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Wow, you sure make alot of assumptions like that I know specific details after I made it clear what I've told you thus far is all third hand info I've picked up from countless discussions.


    You need to ramp up your sarcasm detector. I was pretty certain that you haven't got a clue what's going on with Bryce, yet you repeat 'it's a major, major issue, it will take a lot of resources to fix, Apple screwed it up.'

    I am - see the thread where I put up my findings about how Bryce and Lion interact - pretty confident that this is a, in comparison, minor - bug.


    I'm curious though, I pointed out to you that the word in the forums is this problem exist for all versions of Bryce not just Bryce 7.


    No. Bryce 6 falls over on Lion at a completely different point and in a much more vicous manner; Bryce 7 works until you hit a Bryce-native dialogue.


    If so then it isn't Daz that changed something it's Apple. Which as you've said, which matches what I've heard others say, is that Apple removed Rosetta Support.

    Since you have no idea what Rosetta *is*, you should not attempt to diagnose it. Bryce 7 is an Intel native application. Bryce 6 was an Intel native (or possibly hybrid, can't tell) application. The work of rewriting the codebase has been done - quite probably between Bryce 5 and 6.


    Which was true even before the recent events that have caused a significant decline in revenue for Daz. As for Dreamwidth, well lets not go comparing apples to oranges. Just because a 3 man company can tell you why a particular problem exists for something they make doesn't mean every small company can tell you why a particular problem exists for the things they make.

    Why *can't* companies be more transparent?


    Given that they can't do anything without this one particular guy

    You know, that's a systemic problem, and any company that would adopt this as their official policy is in deep trouble, because if this particular programmer gets run over by a bus, they need to give up on the product in perpetuity? I don't think so. I'm happy to assume that it will need a person with a specific skillset - I don't know which language Bryce was written in, but if they only know one programmer with that skill, or relying on the stars aligning to hire this person again, then they're in trouble way beyond dragging out a vital fix for one of their important tools.

    I don't think DAZ is that singleminded and, frankly, stupid. I'm not disputing that there may be good reasons not to tackle this problem right now, I just don't think we've been told them.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    Wow, you sure make alot of assumptions like that I know specific details after I made it clear what I've told you thus far is all third hand info I've picked up from countless discussions.


    You need to ramp up your sarcasm detector. I was pretty certain that you haven't got a clue what's going on with Bryce, yet you repeat 'it's a major, major issue, it will take a lot of resources to fix, Apple screwed it up.'

    I am - see the thread where I put up my findings about how Bryce and Lion interact - pretty confident that this is a, in comparison, minor - bug.


    I'm curious though, I pointed out to you that the word in the forums is this problem exist for all versions of Bryce not just Bryce 7.


    No. Bryce 6 falls over on Lion at a completely different point and in a much more vicous manner; Bryce 7 works until you hit a Bryce-native dialogue.


    If so then it isn't Daz that changed something it's Apple. Which as you've said, which matches what I've heard others say, is that Apple removed Rosetta Support.

    Since you have no idea what Rosetta *is*, you should not attempt to diagnose it. Bryce 7 is an Intel native application. Bryce 6 was an Intel native (or possibly hybrid, can't tell) application. The work of rewriting the codebase has been done - quite probably between Bryce 5 and 6.


    Which was true even before the recent events that have caused a significant decline in revenue for Daz. As for Dreamwidth, well lets not go comparing apples to oranges. Just because a 3 man company can tell you why a particular problem exists for something they make doesn't mean every small company can tell you why a particular problem exists for the things they make.

    Why *can't* companies be more transparent?


    Given that they can't do anything without this one particular guy

    You know, that's a systemic problem, and any company that would adopt this as their official policy is in deep trouble, because if this particular programmer gets run over by a bus, they need to give up on the product in perpetuity? I don't think so. I'm happy to assume that it will need a person with a specific skillset - I don't know which language Bryce was written in, but if they only know one programmer with that skill, or relying on the stars aligning to hire this person again, then they're in trouble way beyond dragging out a vital fix for one of their important tools.

    I don't think DAZ is that singleminded and, frankly, stupid. I'm not disputing that there may be good reasons not to tackle this problem right now, I just don't think we've been told them.

    Well I can tell you this much and as long as you suggest you've been around you should know this too. The people that would be able to give you the detail you want either are not active in the forums or if they are they don't make their presence know and don't discuss the nature of problems they're having in detail. So why you think now all of a sudden they should is beyond reason. Nor do I see where it makes a difference since the bottomline is that they do plan on tackling the problem and no amount of people complaining about it has proven to make them move faster as evidenced by the many folks before you that have made similar complaints.

    When I mention this one guy I'm not saying he's the one and only guy but obviously anyone who worked on it before with success would be preferable to some totally new person being brought on board assuming they could find someone with the right skill set that Daz could also afford.

    As for Rosetta, I didn't diagnose it I merely said that I've heard others say that it was Apple dropping Rosetta that caused the issue. Now I'll freely admit I don't know what Rosatta is for sure, why should I? I've never owned or worked with any Apple products, don't now and have no plans to do so in the future. I do however have a fair guess that it's the emulator that allowed programming written for the old motorola chipset to work on the newer intel chipset that doesn't work with the motorola code. From what I've heard Apple made it known in advance they would be dropping the emulator and therefore support for any of this older code but most people in the industry thought it would be more down the road like perhaps when they released a major revision such as 11 rather then a minor revison from 10.5 to 10.6. If that was the understanding of the programmers working on Bryce 7 then perhaps that's a clue as to why it didn't get done? Perhaps they thought they would have more time to sort things out for when they did drop that support?

    Since you're firmly in denial that this isn't something Apple should take responsibility for and fix I can only assume it's because you don't feel Apple would even entertain the idea of not forcing thier customers to give up on software they paid good money for?

    Anyway, that's it, now go ahead and get the last word in since clearly that seems like all you're really interested in accomplishing now.

  • Jon-3DJon-3D Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Rosetta was not Apple's technology but used under licence. They did not renew the licence when they introduced Lion. They announced some time before that that PowerPC code would no longer work once the new version of OSX was released. It was up to the manufacturers whether they released new versions of their programmes or not.

    From what I've read the miracle was that so many programmes still worked when Apple changed to a completely different processor. But that "crossover" period is now over.

    The recent Mac version of Hexagon doesn't need Rosetta and neither does DAZ Studio4. I don't know about Bryce 7 but it looks very unlikely to me to be a Rosetta issue as programmes that still need it won't even launch whereas Bryce 7 actually works until you need anything with a custom dialogue box.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited October 2012

    Jon-3D said:
    Rosetta was not Apple's technology but used under licence. They did not renew the licence when they introduced Lion. They announced some time before that that PowerPC code would no longer work once the new version of OSX was released. It was up to the manufacturers whether they released new versions of their programmes or not.

    From what I've read the miracle was that so many programmes still worked when Apple changed to a completely different processor. But that "crossover" period is now over.

    The recent Mac version of Hexagon doesn't need Rosetta and neither does DAZ Studio4. I don't know about Bryce 7 but it looks very unlikely to me to be a Rosetta issue as programmes that still need it won't even launch whereas Bryce 7 actually works until you need anything with a custom dialogue box.

    Well from what I've heard only some aspects of Bryce depend on that code which if true that might explain why Bryce can do more then other programs negatively impacted by the dropping of Rosetta?

    As for Apple's decision to drop it and their announcement to that effect, that's all fine and dandy if the company developing a program has the resources to get it done in time. I just learned in another thread that intially the upgrade from Bryce 6.3 to 7.0 was supposed to include a 64 Bit version but it proved to be too daunting a task in both time and money and had to be put off for a later revision. So it's not only the Mac users that are frustrated by Daz's inability to bring Bryce up to date for today's OS's. Fortunately for PC users they can still use the program and only suffer the limitations of 32 Bit.

    The point I've been trying to address here though is that Daz is not as big or as well off as many seem to think they are. I was recently told by a Daz representative something to the effect that it might have been the president or head of Daz himself that performed such mundane tasks as taking DVD's that had to be sent out for certain products to the post office. This gives a little insight into just how small a company it is. In most big companies you would never have the head of the company performing operations of the shipping department.

    I'm also trying to make the point here that there are two ends this problem can be resolved by one being the makers of the OS in question (Apple) and the other being the makers of the app in question (Daz). Now Daz has taken the official position they will address the problem eventually but for now they are unable to. From all I've heard this appears to be a money issue. No company that survives in the business world today does so by pissing off segments of their customers by not doing something in a more timely fashion if they are able to do so. So you have what we have now which is that Daz plans on fixing Bryce for Mac but they can't do so in a timely enough fashion for their Mac customers. So in my view that leaves one option which is to go to the much wealthier makers of the OS (Apple) and petition them to fix the problem. My view however is that there are not enough Bryce/OSX 10.6 and above users to really make Apple feel the need.

    PC users were only able to force Microsoft's hand on a very similar issue because there were millions of them. Obviously there aren't millions of Bryce/Mac OSX 10.6 and above users to force Apple's hand because if there were then Daz would not have the lack of financial resources and would be able to be working on the problem now or even have already solved it by now. Same for PC users and the lack of Bryce 7 64 Bit. I would love to have a version of Bryce that can make use of 8, 16 or even 32 GB's of memory and often find it very frustrating that even though I spent good money to have more then just 4GB's of memory Bryce can't make use of it. However I recognize that like there aren't enough Mac users to force the issue with Bryce, there aren't enough PC users either. I could sit here and rail against Daz about how they're dissing their customers and threaten to stop buying things from Daz but to what effect? If more customers leave Daz it only compounds their financial problems and could either delay a fix longer or even force Daz to drop it all together. Now if some bigger company with more resources picks it up that could ultimately be a good thing but if Bryce doesn't generate enough money for a smaller company to keep it in developement all the time, at least until it's up to speed, then it seems highly unlikely a bigger company would be interested in picking it up and spending their resources, just on the hopes that if they bring it up to speed the customers will come pouring in like flood waters into the NY Subway. That scenario just doesn't seem to justify a good enough return on investment to interest a big enough company.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • joserendonjoserendon Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    I can´t believe that DAZ 3D just bought Bryce to let it die, is a real shame and a real disappointment, you have to make a Bryce version that runs on Mac OS X Mountain Lion.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, you can not let an amazing tool and a legend like Bryce die.

    I propose to set up a http://www.kickstarter.com project to gather money to support Daz 3D on the creation of a 64Bit version of Bryce for Windows and Mac.

    Please don´t let it die.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    I can´t believe that DAZ 3D just bought Bryce to let it die, is a real shame and a real disappointment, you have to make a Bryce version that runs on Mac OS X Mountain Lion.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, you can not let an amazing tool and a legend like Bryce die.

    I propose to set up a http://www.kickstarter.com project to gather money to support Daz 3D on the creation of a 64Bit version of Bryce for Windows and Mac.

    Please don´t let it die.

    They didn't, in fact they have done more developement on it then any company that owned Bryce before them. To suggest such a thing as they bought it to let it die, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the history of Bryce.

  • ChiropteranChiropteran Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven, thank you for your patience and maturity. You've obviously been keeping track of things far more than most of us are capable of. I'm frustrated too that Bryce won't run under Lion or Mountain Lion.

    However. I have an archival copy of an older Mac system which does simulate system nine, and thus can run Bryce, Carrara, and so on. Not everybody wants to do this, or is able to do this, but with the announcement that Mac systems would no longer emulate Nine, I made the archive, which I seldom use, and I have been able to convert many files, mostly word processing files as well as graphics files, to a form that I can use in Mountain Lion. If anybody has their old system disks, they can make a partition, install the old system, and try it out.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven, thank you for your patience and maturity. You've obviously been keeping track of things far more than most of us are capable of. I'm frustrated too that Bryce won't run under Lion or Mountain Lion.

    However. I have an archival copy of an older Mac system which does simulate system nine, and thus can run Bryce, Carrara, and so on. Not everybody wants to do this, or is able to do this, but with the announcement that Mac systems would no longer emulate Nine, I made the archive, which I seldom use, and I have been able to convert many files, mostly word processing files as well as graphics files, to a form that I can use in Mountain Lion. If anybody has their old system disks, they can make a partition, install the old system, and try it out.

    Thanks for the compliment but anyone that can read can keep track of things equally as well. Pretty much everything I know about Bryce 7 Pro and it's related Mac issues, I've learned from reading posts here.

  • ChiropteranChiropteran Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    I seldom reply to forums, but there are occasions. You're right, anyone who can read could. But look at the subs to this topic. They don't.

    I still think my suggestion is good. If you have a Mac, make a partition with an older version of the system, and run Bryce, or Carrara from there. Apple sells Snow Leopard from its site, a bit hard to find, I have the URL. Another company sells even older versions, again I have the URL. If you really want to run Bryce, there are ways.

    I'll be looking forward to whenever Bryce and Carrara are able to be made Mountain Lion friendly, but until then, when I need them, I'll use Snow Leopard to run them.

    No reply necessary.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    I seldom reply to forums, but there are occasions. You're right, anyone who can read could. But look at the subs to this topic. They don't.

    I still think my suggestion is good. If you have a Mac, make a partition with an older version of the system, and run Bryce, or Carrara from there. Apple sells Snow Leopard from its site, a bit hard to find, I have the URL. Another company sells even older versions, again I have the URL. If you really want to run Bryce, there are ways.

    I'll be looking forward to whenever Bryce and Carrara are able to be made Mountain Lion friendly, but until then, when I need them, I'll use Snow Leopard to run them.

    No reply necessary.

    Sorry if you thought my comment meant your suggestion was less then good, I didn't mean to imply that in any way. In fact my comment was focused solely on your comment about me keeping track of things more then most are capable of.

    Your suggestion sounds fine to me but that's about all I can say since I'm not a Mac user. If it gets Mac users who are unable to use Bryce now able to use it then indeed that's a good thing. I also find your suggestion refreshing from the majority of Mac users complaining about the current incompatability with Bryce. Most come in here, accuse Daz of deliberately trying to piss them off and then refuse to try any workarounds of which there are several such as running Windows using Parallels or pulling an old machine out of storage to run an older version of the OS and thereby run Bryce. In fairness I totally get the refusal to use Windows as many Mac users are Mac users specifically because of a desire to avoid using Windows but I don't get the refusal to try other solutions or come up with one of their own like you did.

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