I can fool you.

SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
edited December 1969 in The Commons

I can fool you.

Using DAZ Studio 4.6 (the current version) I can make a picture so real, I can probably have most people believe it’s a real person looking back at you. I’ve pointed out that 3delight is an industry standard.

I like 3d art and making it as realistic as possible. I like real looking materials. I subscribe to the idea of garbage in, garbage out. Today, some level of reality needs to be not just desired but expected.

We do not have to agree. Conformity is the jailor of freedom and the enemy of growth. Computer art began under the premise that we all ‘Think Differently’. More importantly, think for yourself. Celebrate our differences and cherish what we share in common.

As an improvement to these forums, I’d like to suggest they remove the ‘comments’ feature so that if you ignore somebody, you don’t have to see other people quoting foul comments of a few haters.

Take care. I'd love to hear what you think.

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Comments

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    Huh? I don't understand your post.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,480
    edited December 1969

    Its a nice render. But its not realistic.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Its a nice render. But its not realistic.

    Show me better and tell me how you did it. Thanks in advance. :)

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    Ok, I get it now. Moving on........

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 972
    edited December 1969

    Huh? I don't understand your post.


    I completely agree. Is this some sort of mis-post that was supposed to go on another forum?

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited December 1969

    Oh come on, I bet you can do something pretty amazing... Whip it out and lets see how real it looks. Have a little fun, live a little. Smile.. Show me what you got and I'll show you mine. LOL

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,650
    edited December 1969

    Barubary said:
    Huh? I don't understand your post.


    I completely agree. Is this some sort of mis-post that was supposed to go on another forum?


    CGtalk?

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,480
    edited December 1969

    I like my own work but I dont think its in any way realistic. I enjoy doing art and thats why I do it.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited December 1969

    OK... I know some other people can do a lot better. I'm waiting for some of the real professionals to chime in. Thanks for sharing your good opinion. Maybe someday you'll share some good art too.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 1,621
    edited December 1969

    I'll share one, but it's not so that anyone can rip apart how "realistic" it is or isn't. This, to me, is pretty close to reality. Close enough that I am happy with it, and I think others would be, too. This is Stephanie 5, and although the shadow catcher caught a white shadow instead of dark, it still looks pretty good. Also included on of Victoria 6.

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,840
    edited December 1969

    Can you all please remember to abide by the DAZ 3D ToS, particularly bullet point #2

    Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual. Posts which make blanket, unreasoned criticisms - of other members, of DAZ 3D, of products or applications, or of merchants and their products - may be removed in a general effort to control negativity.

    Thankyou

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited January 2014

    Slosh said:
    I'll share one, but it's not so that anyone can rip apart how "realistic" it is or isn't. This, to me, is pretty close to reality. Close enough that I am happy with it, and I think others would be, too. This is Stephanie 5, and although the shadow catcher caught a white shadow instead of dark, it still looks pretty good. Also included on of Victoria 6.

    I think they are both AWESOME! Great work! Thank you so much for sharing. I'm loving them. On that top one, I feel like I could just reach in and grab her... especially nice. Loving the Jeans :)

    Post edited by SnowPheonix on
  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited January 2014

    chohole said:
    Can you all please remember to abide by the DAZ 3D ToS, particularly bullet point #2

    Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual. Posts which make blanket, unreasoned criticisms - of other members, of DAZ 3D, of products or applications, or of merchants and their products - may be removed in a general effort to control negativity.

    Thankyou

    I like the idea that people keep their criticism to themselves on everything and everybody allow some positive attitudes to flourish around here... How does that expression go, If you got nothing good to say, say nothing at all. :)

    Post edited by SnowPheonix on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    It is a nice render, but it is a long way from realism. Here are some examples of nearly photoreal characters by artists on deviantart. Many use a DS to Octane or DS to Reality workflow.

    http://laticis.deviantart.com/art/A-time-of-Questioning-424856411
    http://calladsreality.deviantart.com/art/Featuring-Sweet-Dublin-304753163
    http://hellboysoto.deviantart.com/art/Skin-Study-01-415821292

    All three of these artists have other examples. Skin is important, but the biggest key is lighting.

    I don't even attempt this. I think that you can have a scene that tells a story, or you can have photorealistic humans; at the current tech level, working as a solo artist on a reasonable production schedule, you basically can't have both. This is why the photoreals tend to be pinups, or if full scenes, still lifes. This is not to devalue them as art at all - I favorite pieces by all of these artists, and they are stunningly gorgeous and inspiring. But it's not the be-all and end-all of 3d, and it should never be the only aim of 3d art.

    I prefer a degree of deliberate stylization that still lets me tell the picture's story, where that's what I'm trying to do. And while I'm not in the same class as some other DAZ PA's, or the DAZ promo artists, sometimes I succeed reasonably well.

    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Tickets-Please-405213885
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Pixie-Pickpocket-414638826?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=8
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Slay-the-Monster-Rescue-the-Prince-420508932?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=1

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,808
    edited January 2014

    The face is entirely too symmetric, the left and right side of any human face is never a mirror.

    The skin looks entirely too matte finished, there should be a slight transparency or light gain around the ears, there s none.

    The reflection in the eyes does not appear to be coming from a light source but an image, it looks painted on.

    The hair, especially the facial hair has no luster and it doesn't match the hair on the models head in terms of glossiness.


    its a good render but you’re only fooling yourself thinking you fooled [edited from "food'[ anyone who uses this software or has done 3D modeling.

    this is close, it was done in Maya and you could study this and see why this looks far more convincing.
    http://cghub.com/images/view/412958/

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969


    The face is entirely too symmetric, the left and right side of any human face is never a mirror.

    The skin looks entirely too matte finished, there should be a slight transparency or light gain around the ears, there s none.

    The reflection in the eyes does not appear to be coming from a light source but an image, it looks painted on.

    The hair, especially the facial hair has no luster and it doesn't match the hair on the models head in terms of glossiness.


    its a good render but you're only fooling yourself thinking you food anyone who uses this software or has done 3D modeling.

    this is close, it was done in Maya and you could study this and see why this looks far more convincing.
    http://cghub.com/images/view/412958/

    Holy crud. That render is incredible.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    Since Chohole was apparently too elliptical in her post I'll be blunter - no snapping, no snarling, no sneering. No replying to posts that annoy you - if you feel they require attention, hit the Report button.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,808
    edited January 2014


    The face is entirely too symmetric, the left and right side of any human face is never a mirror.

    The skin looks entirely too matte finished, there should be a slight transparency or light gain around the ears, there s none.

    The reflection in the eyes does not appear to be coming from a light source but an image, it looks painted on.

    The hair, especially the facial hair has no luster and it doesn't match the hair on the models head in terms of glossiness.


    its a good render but you're only fooling yourself thinking you food anyone who uses this software or has done 3D modeling.

    this is close, it was done in Maya and you could study this and see why this looks far more convincing.
    http://cghub.com/images/view/412958/

    Holy crud. That render is incredible.

    yes, that would have fooled me but I saw the wireframes and solids that lead up to that image and don't tell me what happened in the last 5 episodes of Breaking Bad! I'm wiring for netflix to update me and not taking to a lot of people at the water cooler in the event they spoil it.


    Since Chohole was apparently too elliptical in her post I'll be blunter - no snapping, no snarling, no sneering. No replying to posts that annoy you - if you feel they require attention, hit the Report button.

    I hope I did not come off as attacking the OP, I read criticism of the works flaws and respond to what tipped me off as not being fooled.

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • DAZ_jaredDAZ_jared Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    It is a nice render, but it is a long way from realism. Here are some examples of nearly photoreal characters by artists on deviantart. Many use a DS to Octane or DS to Reality workflow.

    http://laticis.deviantart.com/art/A-time-of-Questioning-424856411
    http://calladsreality.deviantart.com/art/Featuring-Sweet-Dublin-304753163
    http://hellboysoto.deviantart.com/art/Skin-Study-01-415821292

    All three of these artists have other examples. Skin is important, but the biggest key is lighting.

    I don't even attempt this. I think that you can have a scene that tells a story, or you can have photorealistic humans; at the current tech level, working as a solo artist on a reasonable production schedule, you basically can't have both. This is why the photoreals tend to be pinups, or if full scenes, still lifes. This is not to devalue them as art at all - I favorite pieces by all of these artists, and they are stunningly gorgeous and inspiring. But it's not the be-all and end-all of 3d, and it should never be the only aim of 3d art.

    I prefer a degree of deliberate stylization that still lets me tell the picture's story, where that's what I'm trying to do. And while I'm not in the same class as some other DAZ PA's, or the DAZ promo artists, sometimes I succeed reasonably well.

    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Tickets-Please-405213885
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Pixie-Pickpocket-414638826?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=8
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Slay-the-Monster-Rescue-the-Prince-420508932?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=1

    Whenever somebody brings up photorealism my mind immediately goes to Hellboy's Skin Study. It's a stunning image. I really liked your "Tickets Please" image. I agree photorealism isn't the only goal for 3D art. It looks incredible when it can be achieved, but it isn't the only form of artistic expression. Look at Disney and Pixar, they've created great art over the years. Their character design is incredible and I consider it very artistic, but nothing they've done is photorealstic. Another example would be 3D Universe. His toon stuff is awesome, and I definitely think it is art worthy of praise, but it is anything but photorealistic.

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 611
    edited January 2014

    Mattymanx said:
    Its a nice render. But its not realistic.

    Show me better and tell me how you did it. Thanks in advance. :)

    It's a very nice render, and we all strive for realism but if you are familair with the term "uncanny valley" it is an as-yet unattained quality even at the very cutting edge of the industry.

    One thing that I think helps considerably is lighting. Have you tried LUX render? It produces some amazing results.

    Here's some examples

    the first one is in 3delight.

    the second one, still in daz studio, has been sent to lux render via the luxus bridge for daz studio.

    I added a third one which has a side-by-side comparison of 3delight vs lux for the same figure.

    No, mine aren't real enough to fool anyone, nor are yours, nor anyone's -but you can consistently raise the quality through careful work with lighting, surfaces, and so on. Keep striving! Your render is very nice;)

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Its a nice render. But its not realistic.

    Show me better and tell me how you did it. Thanks in advance. :)

    It's a very nice render, and we all strive for realism but if you are familair with therm "uncanny valley" it is an as-yet unattained quality even at the very cutting edge of the industry.

    One thing that I think helps considerably is lighting. Have you tried LUX render? It produces some amazing results.

    Here's some examples

    the first one is in 3delight.

    the second one, still in daz studio, has been sent to lux render via the luxus bridge for daz studio.

    No, mine aren't real enough to fool anyone, nor are yours, nor anyone's -but you can consistently raise the quality through careful work with lighting, surfaces, and so on. Keep striving! Your render is very nice;)


    I couldn't agree with you more about lighting and 'Lux Render' is pretty good but I hate waiting all day for good render.. It's pretty rare that I feel that patient.

    I'm really loving your render and thanks for sharing.. She's brilliant. I actually love the chrome clothing although I know its because of the way that Lux handles materials differently. I think thats the other thing about Lux that annoys me is that you never really know until after the fact how the materials are going to react in that atmosphere.

    Thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely breath taking renders.. You could fool a lot of people with that .. GREAT JOB!

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited January 2014

    DAZ_jared said:
    It is a nice render, but it is a long way from realism. Here are some examples of nearly photoreal characters by artists on deviantart. Many use a DS to Octane or DS to Reality workflow.

    http://laticis.deviantart.com/art/A-time-of-Questioning-424856411
    http://calladsreality.deviantart.com/art/Featuring-Sweet-Dublin-304753163
    http://hellboysoto.deviantart.com/art/Skin-Study-01-415821292

    All three of these artists have other examples. Skin is important, but the biggest key is lighting.

    I don't even attempt this. I think that you can have a scene that tells a story, or you can have photorealistic humans; at the current tech level, working as a solo artist on a reasonable production schedule, you basically can't have both. This is why the photoreals tend to be pinups, or if full scenes, still lifes. This is not to devalue them as art at all - I favorite pieces by all of these artists, and they are stunningly gorgeous and inspiring. But it's not the be-all and end-all of 3d, and it should never be the only aim of 3d art.

    I prefer a degree of deliberate stylization that still lets me tell the picture's story, where that's what I'm trying to do. And while I'm not in the same class as some other DAZ PA's, or the DAZ promo artists, sometimes I succeed reasonably well.

    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Tickets-Please-405213885
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Pixie-Pickpocket-414638826?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=8
    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Slay-the-Monster-Rescue-the-Prince-420508932?q=gallery:SickleYield/14218253&qo=1

    Whenever somebody brings up photorealism my mind immediately goes to Hellboy's Skin Study. It's a stunning image. I really liked your "Tickets Please" image. I agree photorealism isn't the only goal for 3D art. It looks incredible when it can be achieved, but it isn't the only form of artistic expression. Look at Disney and Pixar, they've created great art over the years. Their character design is incredible and I consider it very artistic, but nothing they've done is photorealstic. Another example would be 3D Universe. His toon stuff is awesome, and I definitely think it is art worthy of praise, but it is anything but photorealistic.

    Thank you! Yes, HellBoy's work really is stunning.

    Full toon stylization is big, big money in our industry. :D The ability to work with the semireal to the extent that we do for DS is largely a prerogative of our little corner of 3D. This intersection of not-especially-toon figures with visual storytelling beyond "here's a picture of a person" is otherwise only common in some of the better-funded 3d videogames (and only some).

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,840
    edited December 1969

    I have to agree with Jared here, I look for art rather than realism, if i wanted a realistic look I would have studied photgraphy instead of art and design, however if you want realsim, you can't get much better than this image which is posted in the gallery here. Sadly she doesn't say which program she used.

    http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/18666

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,214
    edited December 1969

    Some of the promo renders at Rendo are pretty realistic, check out Godin's store for example.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,214
    edited January 2014

    chohole said:
    I have to agree with Jared here, I look for art rather than realism, if i wanted a realistic look I would have studied photgraphy instead of art and design,

    Photography has its limitations however. With 3D renders you can compose and arrange the scene almost any way you want, that's rarely the case in the real world (and it can get pretty expensive if you try). That's why they use 3D for special effects in movies.

    Post edited by Taozen on
  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 611
    edited January 2014

    I couldn't agree with you more about lighting and 'Lux Render' is pretty good but I hate waiting all day for good render.. It's pretty rare that I feel that patient.

    I'm really loving your render and thanks for sharing.. She's brilliant. I actually love the chrome clothing although I know its because of the way that Lux handles materials differently. I think thats the other thing about Lux that annoys me is that you never really know until after the fact how the materials are going to react in that atmosphere.

    Thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely breath taking renders.. You could fool a lot of people with that .. GREAT JOB!

    Thanks for the kind words ;)

    Yeah, LUX is not quick and its not without both learning curve and time investment but there are some things to consider.

    First, there are *some* (not enough, hint hint product creators looking for suggestions) lux material presets that can alleviate the time investment a bit. However, almost no scene is going to be something you can just pop into lux and go. But if you accept that setting materials and lights for lux is just part of the process, just as it is for setting materials and lights in Daz or Poser, it is ok. Particularly if your eyes are on the prize of the final results, which are always worth the time.

    But second, do what i do. Set your scene and materials and lights etc and set it to render before you go to bed. Give it a few minutes just to make sure everything is the way you want it, and then go to bed! You wake up to a lovely render in the morning :)

    Post edited by Ademnus on
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,572
    edited December 1969

    I can fool you.

    Perhaps not this lot but that is at least partly due to mind set and expectations (they expect 3d renders they see 3d renders) and hyper criticism creeping in. But a fair few of the uninitiated would no doubt be "fooled". On close inspection some of them would realize that there were things about the render that did not "feel" right but many of those are not something people would even really be consciously aware of. No matter what there would be some people who never realized it was anything but a photo. I say this with absolute surety because I've had renders that people were sure were photos and I'm not the worlds greatest at realism by any stretch. Again, people at least partly view images with expectations for what they are. People who don't expect 3d renders are far more likely to accept images as photos. If this were not true then people would not be able to suspend disbelief at movies with 3d special effects (and even many non 3d effects) that almost always suffer from at least a few "unrealistic" flaws.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,788
    edited December 1969

    For me aiming for realism as a personal challenge to show off. :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,840
    edited December 1969

    I have been know to do things in reverse, Take a photo, ok an old photo, and then try to reproduce it in 3D. This was done completely in Bryce, (I can show you the wire frame if you doubt) Then of course one decides to add some figures, to try and make it look like the St Patrick's day parade I saw in the real village, and then used some Postwork it to make it look old again. May not be realistic to some, but it was popular when I did it. The best comment I had on it was from someone who actually knew the village and didn't know me. They recognised it.

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 529
    edited December 1969

    Holy crud. That render is incredible.

    I do have to agree that that render is AMAZING. On the other hand, I don't know why people are so quick to write off Daz Studio. It's a great program and with the right touches... I stand by my idea that people can be fooled by our creations although it is good to see somebody that wants to raise the bar. Great work. Thanks for sharing.

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