V4.2 vs. Genesis V5 and Genesis 2 Female V6 and the V4 morph tools

cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
edited December 2013 in The Commons

So, I have spend some money for Genesis, V5 and Genesis 2 Female, V6 and for the V4 injection tools + some bendmorphs and gen morphs.

Resume: Sure Genesis and over all Genesis 2 Female has much more morphs and possibilities especially Breast moves, thigh shapes, belly and so on and more than V4.2 and the bendmorphs are great and the shape shifting also BUT for me V4.2 (with the add ons I have) rules.

V4.2 is the winner. I guess now I have all this new stuff I will get into it some day but for now I must say, no way, I like the old more.

DAZ should have more invested on her than on these new figures. An add on tool for more injection channels and other stuff.

BTW: a question. I use the WWGII figure (that is based on the v4.2 geometry and uses also the v4.2 cr2) unfortunatelly it is not possible to inject the NBM and NGM products to this figure. Is this a problem of the WWG2 or a thing that NBM and NGM can`t be injected in poser Figures? Don`t know, fact is, I can not inject these great products to my WWG2 figure (and as I know these products are using no injection channels)

Post edited by cosmo71 on
«1

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,352
    edited December 1969

    V4 has a system for adding new morph channels - the ExP system. If that isn't working with the WWGII figure then it sounds as if there's an issue with the way it's set up, assuming you ran the updater.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    V4 has a system for adding new morph channels - the ExP system. If that isn't working with the WWGII figure then it sounds as if there's an issue with the way it's set up, assuming you ran the updater.

    ah okay, will try it :) have you any idea why I can`t inject the NBM and NGM to the WWG II? Perhaps?

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    Exp System, is it somewhere to be found or is it integrated in DS? Did not know that (maybe a silly question)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    I don`t know why, but I like my Dixie as V4.2 :)

    dx_-_victoria_4.2_I_-_Kopie_.jpg
    1050 x 1675 - 213K
  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    If you have DS4.6 Pro, you have the Content Creation Tools. If you are using DS3, you will need the Advanced Figure Set up tools.

    Both have the ExP Exporter.

    ExP Exporter - Generate ExP product files through a visual interface. This tool greatly simplifies a very tedious and time-consuming process that had to be done by hand prior to this tool.

    Provides visualization of the four ExP file types
    Provides the ability to mass select file type options by type, node and name
    Configurations can be saved for later [re]use.
    Optionally embed deltas
    Optionally generate INJ/REM source library files
    Optionally generate INJ/REM user library files

    Copied from the product page for the CCT's. The CCT's are part of DS4 Pro. The AFST's for DS3 are not but last I checked were still on sale.

    I don't know if this will help you with your character or not.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    If you have DS4.6 Pro, you have the Content Creation Tools. If you are using DS3, you will need the Advanced Figure Set up tools.

    Both have the ExP Exporter.

    ExP Exporter - Generate ExP product files through a visual interface. This tool greatly simplifies a very tedious and time-consuming process that had to be done by hand prior to this tool.

    Provides visualization of the four ExP file types
    Provides the ability to mass select file type options by type, node and name
    Configurations can be saved for later [re]use.
    Optionally embed deltas
    Optionally generate INJ/REM source library files
    Optionally generate INJ/REM user library files

    Copied from the product page for the CCT's. The CCT's are part of DS4 Pro. The AFST's for DS3 are not but last I checked were still on sale.

    I don't know if this will help you with your character or not.

    I have DS4.6 Pro 64Bit. Is this the simple export thing or an extra tool and if, where can I find it???? Have no clue (maybe a silly question but I really don`t know)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    Maybe I am misunderstood, I know that v4 has injection channels DC and CC but they are limited, does the ExP tool create more channels?

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    If you go to the right side of the GUI the Content Creation tools are along there. It should also be listed in tools menu.

    How much experience do you have with hacking cr2's, creating inj/rem poses (actually writing them in a text editor so you understand how things go together)?

    If you've never done any of this, I suggest you do some research into it. The DAZ wiki has some good info

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/wiki/user/rbtwhiz/technotes/content/exp/start

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    If you go to the right side of the GUI the Content Creation tools are along there. It should also be listed in tools menu.

    How much experience do you have with hacking cr2's, creating inj/rem poses (actually writing them in a text editor so you understand how things go together)?

    If you've never done any of this, I suggest you do some research into it. The DAZ wiki has some good info

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/wiki/user/rbtwhiz/technotes/content/exp/start

    The only thing I have done so far is changing CC channels in DC channels because of the limitation and the need of these morphs, so I put some from the CC`s in the emtpy DC´s. Hacking cr2`s I am an absolut beginner, means start from zero. I thought that there must be a much easier way to get more channels but it seems not.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    Ok first thing to remember: the DC are the DAZ Channels. Those channels are reserved for DAZ morphs. If you move morphs from the Community Channels (CC) to the DAZ Channels, you fill them up and you cannot add morrphs that are coded to use specific DAZ Channels.

    I've never filled all the Channels at once to have o create new channels. AFAIK, ExP was designed to remove some of limits that were part of Gen 3 inj/rem system.

    I have hand created cr2's for specific characters but these are what you might call stock characters that won't be changed.

    Can you explain to me exactly what the problem with your current character is and what you are trying to do with it? I understand it uses some third party additions and morphs. What morphs are you trying to apply?

    Maybe if I have a clearer understanding of what the problem is and where you want to go with it, I or someone else can help.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    Ok first thing to remember: the DC are the DAZ Channels. Those channels are reserved for DAZ morphs. If you move morphs from the Community Channels (CC) to the DAZ Channels, you fill them up and you cannot add morrphs that are coded to use specific DAZ Channels.

    I've never filled all the Channels at once to have o create new channels. AFAIK, ExP was designed to remove some of limits that were part of Gen 3 inj/rem system.

    I have hand created cr2's for specific characters but these are what you might call stock characters that won't be changed.

    Can you explain to me exactly what the problem with your current character is and what you are trying to do with it? I understand it uses some third party additions and morphs. What morphs are you trying to apply?

    Maybe if I have a clearer understanding of what the problem is and where you want to go with it, I or someone else can help.

    Not trying to apply. The thing is, I have the I13 overhaul for DS for example that especially is really good for collars and shoulders and also forarm and shins, belly and thighs (bending) and some other bend morphs for v4 and I13 (Ironman13 vendor at renderosity) has also some other interesting shaping and posing products. The thing is that they come in each others way because of the limitation of the channels. If you use overhaul for ds for example nearly all CC`s are full so I can`t have my bend morphs and some davo breast morphs (that I need because I am using the WWGII figure based on V4.2 but I can`t inject NBM and NGM to this WWGII so I need CC morphs for the breasts,) That is one reason.

    I have changed these v4 bend morphs (glute) and the breast morphs from CC to DC channels that I don`t need for my character. My DC channels were completely empty and my CC´s completely full. So that was the only chance for me to get all morphs I need to my character.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    an example if you don`t know what overhaul is: first one normal V4 second one V4 with overhaul (I use the manual morphs not the automatic ones)

    (there are much more morphs for nearly each bodypart from feed to neck) so all injection channels are full if you use all or most of all like i do.

    even the overhaul for ds has no magnets for clothes that doesn`t matter, if your character wears shorts you can use all lower leg morphs, shins, feed and so on. and if your character wears a t-shirt or bikini with adjustment morphs for colars and such you can use all morphs for collars, shoulders and forarms, hands. And the most clothes I have for v4 are created by 3D-Age and they all have enough adjustment and d-form morphs.

    some may say that genesis and genesis 2 female clothes need no additional fixings, well I have genesis and genesis 2 female and some clothes and let me say this:. They don`t look "real". They follow the bodyshape to much, they look like a second skin.

    dx_with_overhaul.jpg
    1680 x 1050 - 240K
    dx_without_overhaul.jpg
    1680 x 1050 - 239K
    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    and (okay, that not everybody really needs) I use the WWGII because this figure has "real" gens with good morphs, not these probs genesis or genesis 2 female has. the outer gens are part of the figure itself, part of the mesh with morphs and you have a conforming figure to these morphs fitting to the wwgII figure. one reason I don`t like these new figures.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    For my character I use:

    I13 Overhaul for DS (manually morphs)
    Ralphetas V4 Bend for the glute
    And some Davo breast morphs

    I also use the badabing shaping tool which has a magnet system for clothes and with all these stuff V4.2 is nearly good as genesis 2 female for less money.

    I want to add the I13 real Belly morphs, I13 glute squish morphs, I13 breast squish morphs, and other I13 products but unfortunatelly I haven`t got enough channels, the other thing is changing of channels if the come in each others way. I have changed channels via the text editor but sometimes it isn`t that easy and sometimes it hasen`t worked after changing.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    I personally had expected that DAZ would do such morph tools for V4.2 as add ons like for genesis and genesis 2 female but that so it seems came not to there thoughts.

    But maybe they do it in the future (what I don`t believe) but here are the most needed morphs:

    Collar up/down adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Collar front/back adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Shoulder up/down adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Shoulder front/back adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Forearm bend adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Belly bend adjustment (smoothing/shaping)
    Thigh side to side adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Thigh front/back adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    Shin bend adjustment (smoothing/shaping) (for each)
    how these work you have to look at the overhaul product by Ironman13

    Glute bend morphs (I have ralfetas V4 bend, but there are also some create by Ironman13 and others)

    Some breast moprhs for movement (swing side to side, swing up down, etc.)

    that all as injection channels and choosable if automatically or manually

    this would be a good package.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,352
    edited December 1969

    Yes, ExP creates new morphs - that's how V4 is able to manage with a single CR2 file, instead of having to have a new CR2 for each large morph expansion (and then not being able to mix morphs from different expansions without going through Morph Manager or the like). I don't know how WWG works - if it is well designed it should be reading the original V4 CR2, or at least using the same morph loading scripts, in which case running the update utility for V4 should also update WWG. However I do seem to recall a long thread trying to sort out some problems with this expansion so it may not be able to handle additional morphs.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    Yes, ExP creates new morphs - that's how V4 is able to manage with a single CR2 file, instead of having to have a new CR2 for each large morph expansion (and then not being able to mix morphs from different expansions without going through Morph Manager or the like). I don't know how WWG works - if it is well designed it should be reading the original V4 CR2, or at least using the same morph loading scripts, in which case running the update utility for V4 should also update WWG. However I do seem to recall a long thread trying to sort out some problems with this expansion so it may not be able to handle additional morphs.

    the wwg2 loads the V4 CR2, yes, but the morphs like morphs++ and elite I had to inject manually. The injection channels and all other stuff is there automatically.

    I don`t know why I can`t inject nbm or ngm to this figure, I have no clue, maybe the wwgII is a poser figure that uses the V4.2 Geometry and CR2 files, no idea.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    well, I have had a look to the Exp exporter but I think that goes a bit to deep into the subject matter. Would be good to have a morph package like this one I have suggested for the DS-Channels but creating a morph package by myself, that is not what I want to do, this is just a hobby and I just want to create scenes and render them, I do not want to create morphs.For this I need to know how this stuff works (programming the figure and such things and that is not my thing and before I can create a morphs I have to check in each single part if this channel is used in some way, to much work for one who only wants to render scenes)

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    time for me to go offline now. until tomorrow. bye

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,629
    edited December 1969

    The whole point of ExP is to add new channels for new morphs without having to modify the .cr2

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,962
    edited December 2013

    The whole point of ExP is to add new channels for new morphs without having to modify the .cr2

    Actually you will need to recreate the CR2 as you can't add channels a cr2. ExP just allows it to have specific channels without overwriting morphs in current ones. Actually, all the fix products were perfect candidates for this tech, but a lot of them are poorly set up (ok, almost all of them, except for one product actually that I help set up using ExP), so that you really can't mix them with other products or custom morph products as they all compete for the same channels rather setting up individual channels for their products.

    One of the most popular ones, I offered to set up using ExP, but the vendor didn't want to customers to recreate their CR2s... but the setup is a complete disaster as it takes up a good chunk of the community channels and the DAZ controlled ones... and any other products will break the product if their morph channels are added.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,352
    edited December 1969

    ExP does add new channels - the CR2 just readscripts a set of master-list pz2s, which are created by the CreatExPFiles utility, which in turn read the channel and ERC details for the morphs so that theya re there ready for the deltas to be loaded by injection. The CR2 never needs to be changed for an ExP update.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,444
    edited December 1969

    ExP does add new channels - the CR2 just readscripts a set of master-list pz2s, which are created by the CreatExPFiles utility, which in turn read the channel and ERC details for the morphs so that theya re there ready for the deltas to be loaded by injection. The CR2 never needs to be changed for an ExP update.

    I've been reading all of Rob's tech notes in wiki. It will take me a while to sort through all the information.

    ExP can add additional channels to an existing cr2 rather than requiring the creation of new cr2 as had to be done with prior generations.

    So if I create custom morphs, I can create additional channels for them and leave the existing DC and CC channels open for other existing morphs that have been coded for them?

    If this is the case, can I also create additional channels, edit existing morphs that would otherwise compete for the same CC and assign them to the new channels?

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    ExP does add new channels - the CR2 just readscripts a set of master-list pz2s, which are created by the CreatExPFiles utility, which in turn read the channel and ERC details for the morphs so that theya re there ready for the deltas to be loaded by injection. The CR2 never needs to be changed for an ExP update.

    I've been reading all of Rob's tech notes in wiki. It will take me a while to sort through all the information.

    ExP can add additional channels to an existing cr2 rather than requiring the creation of new cr2 as had to be done with prior generations.

    So if I create custom morphs, I can create additional channels for them and leave the existing DC and CC channels open for other existing morphs that have been coded for them?

    If this is the case, can I also create additional channels, edit existing morphs that would otherwise compete for the same CC and assign them to the new channels?

    for the records, that is exactly what I want to know, too.

    second thing, has anyone an idea why I can`t inject nbm or ngm to the wwg2 figure? v4.2 is okay but not the wwgII.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,962
    edited December 2013

    ExP does add new channels - the CR2 just readscripts a set of master-list pz2s, which are created by the CreatExPFiles utility, which in turn read the channel and ERC details for the morphs so that theya re there ready for the deltas to be loaded by injection. The CR2 never needs to be changed for an ExP update.

    No, the createExPFiles recreates the base figure CR2 based on in the child directories. This is why an older CR2 will not inherit any new ExP products until you re-run the script. So if you have a CR2 with WWG in it, it will not inherit any additional ExP channels because WWG in not a ExP product to begin with. I believe that it was made around the time morphs++ and possibly elite was out. It will not have any other additional products in it unless you decide to hand edit the file to put the references in.

    When I created several M4/V4 products using ExP, one of the first tech support questions I would get would be because the customer would install the product (which runs the createExPFiles script), then load up an old CR2 that does not have the references to my product in it and would ask why they do not see my morphs. That's because they have to load in a new M4/V4 CR2 from the DAZ People folder which contains the new references and add their old injections from products back in.

    This is one of the primary reasons that I do use genesis, since ExP was basically a precursor to the dynamic morph system that does not require injections. I can add as many custom morphs to a product as I want and not have to worry if they loaded or if I have to reload my old morphs.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    ExP does add new channels - the CR2 just readscripts a set of master-list pz2s, which are created by the CreatExPFiles utility, which in turn read the channel and ERC details for the morphs so that theya re there ready for the deltas to be loaded by injection. The CR2 never needs to be changed for an ExP update.

    No, the createExPFiles recreates the base figure CR2 based on in the child directories. This is why an older CR2 will not inherit any new ExP products until you re-run the script. So if you have a CR2 with WWG in it, it will not inherit any additional ExP channels because WWG in not a ExP product to begin with. I believe that it was made around the time morphs++ and possibly elite was out. It will not have any other additional products in it unless you decide to hand edit the file to put the references in.

    When I created several M4/V4 products using ExP, one of the first tech support questions I would get would be because the customer would install the product (which runs the createExPFiles script), then load up an old CR2 that does not have the references to my product in it and would ask why they do not see my morphs. That's because they have to load in a new M4/V4 CR2 from the DAZ People folder which contains the new references and add their old injections from products back in.

    This is one of the primary reasons that I do use genesis, since ExP was basically a precursor to the dynamic morph system that does not require injections. I can add as many custom morphs to a product as I want and not have to worry if they loaded or if I have to reload my old morphs.

    well I think hand editing the file is something I am not able to do (knowledge base for this)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    genesis and genesis 2 female are good products with lots of possibilities that`s for sure and I did and do try to get my character Dixie to it and also run the skin converter and it looks great until it comes to the lower area (hip region) there you can see the old borders of the texture. And the texturing for the gen product for genesis does not work correctly. for genesis 2 female I just had to inject the converted hip texture and all was fine, the same on genesis would leave half of the prop without texture and tilling was not a solution and doesn`t also brought the needed result. So genesis is not a solution for me. Is the only thing genesis 2 female but as written after running the skin converter you can see borders (hip/inner thigh region)

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2013

    other question, I have added the smoothing modifier to my character and change some values like: weight from 0.5 to 0.2 and secondary weight from -0.5 to -0.2 memorized the figure, locked the values memorized the figure new and saved the character as scene. after new loading the scene the values are at 0.2 and -0.2 but not locked and I have to memorize the figure new so that these values and not 0.5 and -0.5 are set after restoring the figure during work. normally everything you lock will be locked after new loading if you have saved the scene with these locked values, but not these two.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,962
    edited December 2013

    cosmo71 said:
    genesis and genesis 2 female are good products with lots of possibilities that`s for sure and I did and do try to get my character Dixie to it and also run the skin converter and it looks great until it comes to the lower area (hip region) there you can see the old borders of the texture. And the texturing for the gen product for genesis does not work correctly. for genesis 2 female I just had to inject the converted hip texture and all was fine, the same on genesis would leave half of the prop without texture and tilling was not a solution and doesn`t also brought the needed result. So genesis is not a solution for me. Is the only thing genesis 2 female but as written after running the skin converter you can see borders (hip/inner thigh region)

    Well to be honest, you'll probably have to start looking into editing textures, because it seems to me your complaint is that you can't get the textures to look right, since there are no textures specifically for the genesis gens for your specific texture. That's not really an issue with genesis or genesis 2, but getting textures to work for you. I had a similar issue with converting some textures for Gen2Male, which is a bigger issue because there is no conversion at all for the gens portion of the texture. But that's not really an issue with Genesis, as I have textures for genesis that will work for it.

    But I've been practicing more with photoshop and the map transfer tool and between both I can take the hip from my M4 texture and the gens from another figure and use photoshop to piece a new gens together for my personal use. This way I can reuse what I have, and I'm sure you can do the same as well to get the textures looking the way you want for your figure. 'Rotica even has morphs for the G2F gens and between those, you can get an equivalent look for your character.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 1,614
    edited December 1969

    cosmo71 said:
    genesis and genesis 2 female are good products with lots of possibilities that`s for sure and I did and do try to get my character Dixie to it and also run the skin converter and it looks great until it comes to the lower area (hip region) there you can see the old borders of the texture. And the texturing for the gen product for genesis does not work correctly. for genesis 2 female I just had to inject the converted hip texture and all was fine, the same on genesis would leave half of the prop without texture and tilling was not a solution and doesn`t also brought the needed result. So genesis is not a solution for me. Is the only thing genesis 2 female but as written after running the skin converter you can see borders (hip/inner thigh region)

    Well to be honest, you'll probably have to start looking into editing textures, because it seems to me your complaint is that you can't get the textures to look right, since there are no textures specifically for the genesis gens for your specific texture. That's not really an issue with genesis or genesis 2, but getting textures to work for you. I had a similar issue with converting some textures for Gen2Male, which is a bigger issue because there is no conversion at all for the gens portion of the texture. But that's not really an issue with Genesis, as I have textures for genesis that will work for it.

    But I've been practicing more with photoshop and the map transfer tool and between both I can take the hip from my M4 texture and the gens from another figure and use photoshop to piece a new gens together for my personal use. This way I can reuse what I have, and I'm sure you can do the same as well to get the textures looking the way you want for your figure. 'Rotica even has morphs for the G2F gens and between those, you can get an equivalent look for your character.

    I know, have these morphs ;) but I have no photoshop :(

Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel