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Possible problem with Michael 4 for G2M
Posted: 22 November 2013 03:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I will attempt to see if I can recreate this issue with coats that I have in my runtime.  In the meantime, would you answer a couple of questions for me regarding this garment?  These questions might or might not be part of the problem, but I need as much info as I can get.
1.  Is the coat subdivided?
2.  If so, what is the SubDivision Algorithm applied?  Usually Catmark by default in DS 4.5+, but try Catmull-Clark.  If no subd, disregard.
3.  Is smoothing type set to Base Shape Matching or Generic Matching?
4.  Did you use a template when you auto-fitted the coat?  This would be the 2nd dropdown box that you see when Auto-Fit pops up.  There are options such as Pants, Shirt, Full Body, etc.  Try Robe-Full Length

I will certainly see what I can do to make this better, but I think it is more inherently an issue with autofit and the coat model itself.  Autofit in both Genesis and Genesis 2 has difficulties with long dresses, coats, etc. and seems to have issues at the collars on some things.  I have attached a picture of G2M and Genesis, both with the Michael 4 shape so that the differences are minimal.  They are wearing the Duster from M4 Cowboy.  As you can see, the collars on both look pretty bad (red circles) and at the area where the thighs meet the hips (green lines), the G2M version actually does a better job at capturing the shape than Genesis.  I see the area between the legs on your example, where G2M is worse, but on the cowboy duster, this problem is not there.  What I’m getting at is the clothing model has a lot to do with how well autofit works.  Right now I am experimenting with this duster to see if I can figure out what body group the collar tips and the area you have shown fall under, and how I might better be able to make those polygons follow the correct weight maps.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I’m sorry you are having problems with the coat.  If it weren’t $30 in the store, I would consider buying it and working specifically with that coat.  Has the autofit and clone been working well for you otherwise?

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Posted: 22 November 2013 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Thanks for the reply, I know different things work differently when it comes to autofit, I have things that transform beautifully others that just become a crumpled mess, particularly problematic are long coats belts collars belts with swords a real problem, the Jack of Hearts set autofits nicely except for the sword, which is attached to the belt it goes all kinky.
Answers to your questions

1. No the coat is not subdivided
2. NA
3. Base - changing to Generic does help especially with the skirt breaking, sorry I had forgotten to try that.
4 yes I used a template and I used the Robe-Full Length one

Other wise the Autofit has worked well, I’ve just run through several other coats and most transfer ok even without smoothing even the M4 Amazing coat available at Rendo looks passable, the collar doesn’t distort much at all considering how high it is I wasn’t really expecting it to work very well.
The Robe from the Warpmaster set here at Daz doesn’t do too well at all.
The M4 Pirate coat works nicely as does the Wanted DOA and the Regency Coat.
The Windy Wizard Robe (Rendo) sleeves break up but I kinda expected that.

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Posted: 22 November 2013 05:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I think the conforming works well (M4 to G2Male) but when I apply certain poses, the outfit (legs of the skirt/long coat) crashes. Its’ probably because the long coat/skirt follows the legs. See my pictures. I tried with several skirt outfit/long clothes and it’s excatly the same problem with the same style of breakpoint when Genesis2M walks/runs.

Do you think it is possible to fix that?


Best regards.

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Posted: 22 November 2013 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Maybe you’re right, Slosh. I put my pictures before I read your last post. Maybe it’s the autofit/model which can be optimized. The shoes and boots, on the other hand, conform much better with your product M4 to Genesis2Male. Even long boots conform well. So thank you so much for that.

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Posted: 22 November 2013 06:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I’m having issues with the UV part of this product. HOWEVER .... it may be a case of program incompatibility/user-being-dumb-enough-to-try-that. I was able to transfer my textures, create a .duf file and load the results onto the Genesis 2 Male. Looked great. I saved it and then made a Poser Companion File so I could use it with the DSON Importer. And that is where things went rather wrong. I opened up Poser 10, caught me a fresh G2M and tried to put my nice new skin on him. But absolutely nothing happened. The textures did not load in Poser. So does this not work at all except in Daz Studio, or did I do a major stupid somewhere in the conversion process?

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Posted: 23 November 2013 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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You might try applying the .duf preset (which should at least change the UV set) and then applying the original Poser mat pose/mc6 - DS materials, especially if they use alternative shaders, don’t come over well in companion files - most items will have Poser materials settings added manually to the CR2 or PZ2 that goes with the .duf.

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Posted: 23 November 2013 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Thanks, will try. Was thinking about it last night & realized I might also have saved the wrong thing, it was the .duf I made of the M4 materials that were on Michael I tried using in Poser. Not the ones that were transferred onto Genesis. :oops:

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Posted: 23 November 2013 10:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I’m not a Poser user at all, but was told by DAZ that the only way the M4 UV’s can be used in Poser is by using the Set M4 UVs preset that I included with the package.  My guess is that you have to apply that first (which is what I think Richard was saying), then apply the .duf material preset that you made in DS.  I don’t think it is necessary to have applied it to G2M in Studio before saving it.  The M4 version you saved should work fine, AFAIK.

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Posted: 23 November 2013 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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In response to the question about the long coats and such, I have to say that I am disappointed in long coats in general, autofit or native to the figure.  It seems, even in generation 4 days, that coats are made to follow the legs just as Lyone has stated.  I don’t know of any way to disassociate the length of the coat from the legs except on a per-item basis, and even then it would be way more work than anyone would want to go through.  It would involve deleting bones, adding new bones, setting weight maps, etc.  Maybe some guru will come up with a way.  Since I am currently working on some autofit improvements for my own M4 product, I will take a bit of time to see if I can’t improve on this, but I do know that SickleYield is working on some autofit clones that will help with long dresses/robes/etc. for G2M.

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Posted: 23 November 2013 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Okay, this time I got the textures to apply in Poser, however as you can see the results are less than spectacular. But in Studio the same .duf files work perfectly. :scratches head: What the heck is going on?

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Posted: 23 November 2013 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Byrdie - 23 November 2013 11:19 AM

Okay, this time I got the textures to apply in Poser, however as you can see the results are less than spectacular. But in Studio the same .duf files work perfectly. :scratches head: What the heck is going on?

Okay, this is possibly the easy part. The problem is that your UV’s did not get changed.  I don’t know how to do that in Poser, but hopefully you already do, or someone will read this and tell you.

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Posted: 23 November 2013 11:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Slosh - 23 November 2013 10:50 AM

I’m not a Poser user at all, but was told by DAZ that the only way the M4 UV’s can be used in Poser is by using the Set M4 UVs preset that I included with the package.  My guess is that you have to apply that first (which is what I think Richard was saying), then apply the .duf material preset that you made in DS.  I don’t think it is necessary to have applied it to G2M in Studio before saving it.  The M4 version you saved should work fine, AFAIK.


Eureka! I found the missing link! Or rather, the thingy that changes the UVs to M4 in Poser. Cannot believe I missed it. Now my texture works. However, it is the .duf I made from the G2M in Studio that applied this time. For whatever reason, the original M4 version of the .duf does nothing at all, nor do the .mc6 files when I tried Richard’s suggestion.

 

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Posted: 25 November 2013 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Hi everyone!  I didn’t want you to think I’d forgotten about working on the fixes, or that I wasn’t doing it.  I have been messing around with the autofit clone, trying to make it fit even better.  At this stage, more clothes fit without poke-through, even without using a smoothing modifier (which I still recommend, it just makes things fit nicer.  Except armor.  I wouldn’t use a smoothing mod on that).

The issues with the long coats and high collars is due to the individual garments.  I’ve noted that, on the coats I own, some have polygons in the collar that are not attached to the neck bones, but rather the chest.  Those stray polygons are the ones that are crumpling and unless reassigned to the neck, they will continue to do so.  As for the area between the legs, it was mentioned that the “skirt” follows the legs, but the bunching between them comes down to, again, polygons going to the wrong bone.  Many coats look great, while others not so much.  In extreme poses they are all going to suffer, but I know we still expect to be able to pose any way we want without crazy stretching and crumbling.  Some designers were luckier in the groups they created in the original design.  Or maybe not luck, but skill, though how they could foresee Genesis and Genesis 2 is a mystery smile

The gloves are being my biggest pain in the neck.  I fixed some of the webby polygons that appear between the fingers, but I just recently discovered that the ring finger on each hand is picking up polygons from the middle fingers and pulling them out of shape.  If I can get to the root of why this is happening, and fix it, I may be able to sort out the collars and skirts, too. 

Basically just wanted to let you all know that I am actively trying to sort this.  Also note, I may do some adjustments to the UVs as well.  There are areas that could be less distorted that I did not see until tattoos were pointed out to me (you may have read the blog review by jimzombie).  I have new software to buy at the beginning of the month that should help me a lot with that.  If it works out, I plan for D5, H5, A5, S5 and F5 UV kits, but unfortunately the kits will be UV only… no shapes/morphs.  I don’t have any rights to those :(

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Posted: 25 November 2013 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Thank you for keeping us up date.

Is it possible to do anything about draping sleeves?

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Posted: 15 December 2013 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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jimzombie - 20 November 2013 04:52 AM

Let me start by saying that I’m really getting into the whole spirit of G2 and our latest member. I’m also generally happy with Michael 4 for G2M, but I have noticed there are some… imperfections. So far all the clothes I have have tried fit great. Boots are pretty good too. The biggest problem I have run across is with gloves.

I’ve looked at multiple sets of gloves and none of them look great around the tips of the fingers. I’ve attached a a G1 and G2M picture using the Cyberpunk for M4 limbs.

I’m also attaching a G2M and G2F image of boot autofits. So far it looks like the autofit for G2F is generally better quality, but I have seen some instances where the G2F fits are less than optimal

Basically I’m wondering if other have similar experiences as my own.

Just to let everyone know… I have made a new autofit template specifically for Michael 4 Gloves that shows a vast improvement to the fit even without using a smoothing modifier.  I would like to point out that the smoothing modifier still gives the best results because it forces the glove to fit the shape of the hand wearing it.  The fit still causes some distortion in the original mesh, particularly in the fingertips of the ring and pinky fingers, but this is the best I have been able to come up with.

I also updated the autofit clone itself, reducing the amount of poke-through some have still experienced when not using a smoothing modifier.  I was not able to solve the issue with capes and long coats.  Unfortunately, because they follow the legs, there will almost always be issues with that when using autofit.

Lastly, I have updated the preset “Set M4 UVs” so that it does not set your shader back to DAZ default.  I have submitted the updates to DAZ and hopefully they will be in your account shortly.  When the update goes live, I will post here again so that those who do not use DIM can be notified to check your Product Library.

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