Digital Art Zone

 
   
1 of 7
1
I am done with Hexagon - any alternatives?
Posted: 28 October 2013 04:43 AM   [ Ignore ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  734
Joined  2011-08-05

Hello!

I have spent some hours to model a nice armor belt and a pantie. Now it looks nice and I am trying to apply shading domains. But this is simply not possible. Every time I try it crashes. Tried 100 times, 100 crashes are the result. Something is terribly wrong here. I even cannot select a single face on the belt without having a crash. So all the time and work was useless.

Now I think I am done with this crappy Hexagon. I really liked it, the useage is easy and it´s fun to work with. But it is much too unstable. Sorry, this is not acceptable. I wonder how DAZ dares to take money for this piece of .... This is not even beta software in my eyes.

Sorry, but I am really a bit upset in the moment grin

So, who can suggest me a good alternative software to Hexagon, which is also easy to use and does not cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Oh, and please don´t say Blender. I know it is free, but hard to learn and not really useable without learning many many keyboard shortcuts, which is definitely not working for me. I am used to work with mouse or tablet only, and I don´t want to change that.

Thank you!

 Signature 

My DAZ Gallery
Me on DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 05:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6439
Joined  2005-08-15

What OS are you using?

I am using Hex on Win 7, and it runs OK for me.  There are settings in Preferences that can help with crashes, have you tried any of them?

Have you tried resetting Preferences to the Default first of all, then you can set the 3D Display > OpenGL Optimisation to ‘No Optimisation’ which can help in most circumstances.  Then in User Interface > Misc, make the Undo Levels up to at least 50.

See if that helps any.

You could also try Silo (cheap) which is similar to Hex, and there is also Wings 3D (free), the other ones that I know of are quite expensive, like Cinema 4D, Lightwave and Modo.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  734
Joined  2011-08-05

Thanks for the answer!

I am using Win 7 64 bit on an Intel Quad Core Cpu, 16 GB RAM, ATI 7750 GPU.

Yes, I have tried all the optimisations that I found here on the forums. I have also tried to enable LAA (Large Adress Aware) and I have tried to disable Dynamic Geometry. Nothing seems to help. Hex works like a charm as long as I play with some simple primitives. But as soon as I model something a bit more complicated it crashes all the time.

I have read about SILO, looks nice, but has the same problem as Hex. No more development, no more updates or fixes.

It is really a shame that all serious modelers are that expensive. How could a hobbyist like me, with an average paid job and a family, afford that? I am willing to pay for good software, but not that much. It´s simply impossible.

Maybe I should really take some holidays, lock myself in an empty room for 2 weeks and learn Blender grin

 Signature 

My DAZ Gallery
Me on DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4914
Joined  2012-04-07

I’ve encountered that problem as well. If you can’t even touch a face normal without the program crashing, it means that there is an unwelded line “somewhere” in the object. Hexagon sporadically unwelds lines. Face extractions may also somehow contribute to the problem ... have had to ditch more than one project myself for these reasons.

The only way around ... is to go back to the last known good save for the project where you can touch the face normals without it crashing and continue from there again. And save out “pieces” of the garment. For example if making a tunic with a belt and a buckle is crashing the program. Make the buckle and if it is working correctly, save out the .obj. Then the belt, then the tunic. Then close and reopen Hexagon and import in the “tunic, belt and buckle” and hopefully it’ll all work.

I also cannot justify spending 4 digits on a software program so have learned how to do the best we can with what we’ve got.

Blender is the choice of many ... but it’s not for everybody. No program is.

 Signature 
Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  257
Joined  2006-12-09

Blender is getting better all the time, it may be worth some effort. wink

 Signature 

Loose rhymes with moose and means “not tight”.  Lose an “o” to suffer a loss.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1317
Joined  2008-01-01

This sounds very much like a twisted N-gon.  Try this - With the mesh selected in the scene panel, and without touching it, go to the top menu, Selection -> Select over-4-points-faces.  If it does select an N-gon without crashing, keep that selected and without touching the mesh, go to Utilities -> select the second from top icon (split into triangles, etc…).  That should fix it.

If it does crash when you try to select N-gons, try exporting it as .obj, Open in Daz studio and without doing anything to it, export as .obj under a different name and import into Hex.  Studio is the only app I’ve come across that can fix that particular problem - even Meshlab crashes with a twisted N-gon.

If none of that fixes it and you don’t have an earlier saved version, your only hope is to edit the text file - about which i know nothing:)

Pity Afreaginame seems to be MIA - he is very good at finding errors and fixing them in a text editor:)

As far as other apps are concerned, the only stand-alone modeler in active development I know of is Nvil - cost $78, although there is a free version which is limited to saving less than 1 000 polys.  Last I tried it was like Blender on steroids!

Blender is seriously good, but does take some getting used to - not really that bad to learn if you look at a lot of tuts.

Wings 3D is pretty good, as is Anim8or, which is probably the easiest modeler to learn in, both free.

Hope it all comes right for you smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  216
Joined  2006-11-17
Roygee - 28 October 2013 09:50 AM

As far as other apps are concerned, the only stand-alone modeler in active development I know of is Nvil - cost $78, although there is a free version which is limited to saving less than 1 000 polys.

The free version as no limitations. But it is an old version no longer updated, although it is very stable. (It is the trial version of the latest full release that is limited to exporting 1,000 polygons.)

Last I tried it was like Blender on steroids!

Not sure why the ref to Blender.

Blender is seriously good, but does take some getting used to - not really that bad to learn if you look at a lot of tuts.

The hardest part is finding what tools are available and where they are/how to call them. I have been looking at Blender, but still having to find shortcuts/tools (I have used Blender for quite a while, but mainly only for rendering).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  216
Joined  2006-11-17
XoechZ - 28 October 2013 04:43 AM

Something is terribly wrong here. I even cannot select a single face on the belt without having a crash.

It sounds like bad geometry. If you could upload the model and give me a link, I will have a look to see if I can find any errors in the model that could be causing the crash.

The last update to Hexagon was mainly for the DS bridge, and better MAC compatibility. Unfortunately that (IMHO) brought in more issues on the PC version.
I do still use Hexagon from time to time, but certainly not the latest version, I use an older version 2.1, which is far more stable on my PC setup(win7 64) than the later versions.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  734
Joined  2011-08-05

Hello!

Wow, thanks for all your answers and suggestions. So it seems we are all in the same boat with Hexagon and I am not the only one with these problems and that they are well known. This does not fix or cure it, but maybe makes it easier to live with them. It´s just very frustrating to see a project go poof after many hours of work - just because of one of your described reasons. Unfortunately I have deleted this broken project, but I will take care in the future and try to avoid such problems.

 Signature 

My DAZ Gallery
Me on DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4900
Joined  2008-03-06
wwes - 28 October 2013 08:19 AM

Blender is getting better all the time, it may be worth some effort. wink

All of my products are modeled, sculpted, UV mapped and morphed in Blender (also used to create baked displacements).

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Addict
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4700
Joined  2004-07-01
XoechZ - 28 October 2013 04:43 AM

Hello!

I have spent some hours to model a nice armor belt and a pantie. Now it looks nice and I am trying to apply shading domains. But this is simply not possible. Every time I try it crashes. Tried 100 times, 100 crashes are the result. Something is terribly wrong here. I even cannot select a single face on the belt without having a crash. So all the time and work was useless.

Now I think I am done with this crappy Hexagon. I really liked it, the useage is easy and it´s fun to work with. But it is much too unstable. Sorry, this is not acceptable. I wonder how DAZ dares to take money for this piece of .... This is not even beta software in my eyes.

Sorry, but I am really a bit upset in the moment grin

So, who can suggest me a good alternative software to Hexagon, which is also easy to use and does not cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Oh, and please don´t say Blender. I know it is free, but hard to learn and not really useable without learning many many keyboard shortcuts, which is definitely not working for me. I am used to work with mouse or tablet only, and I don´t want to change that.

Thank you!

list to look at - some are old ( but have newer version ) -

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/25-free-3d-modelling-applications-you-should-not-miss/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Addict
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4700
Joined  2004-07-01

you might want to look at this one too ( on sale today ) -

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/31375/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  147
Joined  2013-06-14
Roygee - 28 October 2013 09:50 AM

This sounds very much like a twisted N-gon.  Try this - With the mesh selected in the scene panel, and without touching it, go to the top menu, Selection -> Select over-4-points-faces.  If it does select an N-gon without crashing, keep that selected and without touching the mesh, go to Utilities -> select the second from top icon (split into triangles, etc…).  That should fix it.

If it does crash when you try to select N-gons, try exporting it as .obj, Open in Daz studio and without doing anything to it, export as .obj under a different name and import into Hex.  Studio is the only app I’ve come across that can fix that particular problem - even Meshlab crashes with a twisted N-gon.

If none of that fixes it and you don’t have an earlier saved version, your only hope is to edit the text file - about which i know nothing:)

Pity Afreaginame seems to be MIA - he is very good at finding errors and fixing them in a text editor:)

As far as other apps are concerned, the only stand-alone modeler in active development I know of is Nvil - cost $78, although there is a free version which is limited to saving less than 1 000 polys.  Last I tried it was like Blender on steroids!

Blender is seriously good, but does take some getting used to - not really that bad to learn if you look at a lot of tuts.

Wings 3D is pretty good, as is Anim8or, which is probably the easiest modeler to learn in, both free.

Hope it all comes right for you smile

Roygee, thank you very much this solved my problem I had with a hole in the wall. LOL

 Signature 

http://bobeagle77.deviantart.com/  Parental Discretion Is Advised: some renders Includes mature content.This is my DeviantArt renders portfolio. Thanks for checking out my stufft. cool smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4708
Joined  2005-08-03

This might cheer you up. It’s a Silo3D vid. wink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9nKqOZjPjk

The dialog in the center is a crash message.

 Signature 

Wearing duck crap doesn’t make you a duck - Floki
@Deviantart | @ShareCG
Tutorial: V4 Transmap Brows on Genesis via DS only.
——————————-
Websleuths - Help bring the missing home and give names to those who don’t have them.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 October 2013 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1317
Joined  2008-01-01

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve - the reference to Blender was tongue-in-cheek smile

Glad you got sorted, Bobeagle.

I’m using Hex 2.5.1.79 on Win7 64bit and until recently on Win XP 32bit.  Nearing completion on my most ambitious project yet - a scale, full-detail model of the Cutty Sark.  Haven’t counted, but there must be close to a hundred separate meshes in it and nary a crash.

It really comes down to knowing what can be done and constructing good mesh.  Hex isn’t good at error detection and will crash instead of telling you that what you are trying can’t be done.  There are some rules to constructing mesh that must be obeyed, or you end up with a mess.

A lot of the problems folk experience is that they don’t study what is actually a pretty complex subject which takes a long time and a lot of effort to get any good at.  Of course, having stable software helps a lot, but most CG software will give problems to the uninitiated - you simply need to have the patience and determination to work through it to get results.

Here’s something I feel is required viewing for all aspiring modelers http://vimeo.com/user904568

Enjoy smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 October 2013 04:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  734
Joined  2011-08-05
Roygee - 28 October 2013 10:15 PM

It really comes down to knowing what can be done and constructing good mesh.  Hex isn’t good at error detection and will crash instead of telling you that what you are trying can’t be done.  There are some rules to constructing mesh that must be obeyed, or you end up with a mess.

Thanks for that explanation, it sounds quite logical. But what are these rules you have to obey? How is “good” mesh constructed?

Could you please tell us some of these rules? I think I am not the only one who wants to know this!

What I always do is box modeling. So, starting with a simple cube or cylinder and then making something complex from it, by dividing and adding geometry, smoothing and making everything flow around my models body. Extruding and adding thickness is also in my workflow. Anything wrong about this?

 Signature 

My DAZ Gallery
Me on DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 7
1