Digital Art Zone

 
   
3 of 7
3
UberSurface Tutorial
Posted: 23 June 2014 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06

Thank you everyone who jumped in! Sertorial, I agree with you on the naming issue. Ubersurface spec2 is something I haven’t experimented with much since I started this thread (I’ve been more focused on the Subsurface Shader…and spec2 behaves rather differently in that one).

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  588
Joined  2007-12-20
Sertorial - 23 June 2014 04:01 PM

Ok, thanks everyone.

I have been doing some quick tests on a sphere primitive and I can confirm that glossiness refers to specular 1 only.  For specular two, glossiness is called roughness (rather annoyingly) and the percentages are the same (i.e. a glossiness of 80% for spec 1 is the same as a roughness of 80% for spec2).

Maybe Mr Omnifreaker might like to rename his channels in the next version to something a little more logical?

I suggest :

spec1, glossiness 1, sharpness1
spec2, glossiness 2, sharpness2

Then we’d all be a bit clearer. smile

This is just one of many things Szark should ask Omnifreaker to clarify.

Szark - 23 June 2014 03:16 PM

does that mean I don’t need to do mine that I promised. wink

Well, I still like to see yours. Of course, I think two heads and two pairs of eyes are much more better. Maybe you two and mustakettu85 can collaborate on a single tutorial?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  796
Joined  2012-02-12

In my view, all the shaders are more or less the accumulation of different effects which mostly are independent with each others (there are few exceptions). That is the old way shaders were implemented at the beginning in order to have more control of the effects

Wouldn’t it be better to get a tutorial with the overview on different shaders and their difference in implementations? Especially because we barely see anything about US2, PWSurface

I think it is better to have a general view on this. Eventually begin with the common implementations (ambient, diffuse, specular, SSS, reflections, refractions, fresnel etc..) then break up to the difference between these shaders so that you could eventually make a better choice between them
For Example, DS Default has Reflection and refraction but it is not made the same way as US. For AOA SSS I tested it once and it simply didn’t work
In the same vein, the default DS shader has the ambiant channel multiplied with the diffuse. I don’t know if that is the same for all

 Signature 

My Deviant Art

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06

As far as a general overview of what shaders do, and features that are common to most of them, there is this: Surface Basics by Ann (DAZ_Ann0314).

It’s kind of geared towards new users, but contains information that will probably help many more experienced users also.

What I’m not aware of is any sort of comparison chart for DAZ Studio shaders. That might be an interesting project.

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  688
Joined  2013-01-27
Takeo.Kensei - 24 June 2014 09:15 AM

Wouldn’t it be better to get a tutorial with the overview on different shaders and their difference in implementations? Especially because we barely see anything about US2, PWSurface

I think such a tutorial would be enormously helpful.

In the meantime, does anyone know if DAZ Studio is able to achieve the “waxy” look that Firefly can produce with skin? I have been trying to get this for ages and initially thought it was done with SSS, but I can’t find a combination of settings that does it. I did think it might be translucency, but this is quite wrong for skin.

Can anyone help with this? You know what I mean by that slightly waxy skin look that Poser users can get?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06
Sertorial - 24 June 2014 11:09 AM

Can anyone help with this? You know what I mean by that slightly waxy skin look that Poser users can get?

It’s a question that comes up from time to time. The issue (or one of them) is that waxiness is in the eye of the beholder and although there is general agreement that Poser renders have a “waxy” look, different solutions look right to different people. My own advice would be, if you’re using DAZ Studio, don’t worry about making it look like Poser, just try to make it look good (if you want a painting to look as if it was done with watercolors, then it’s easiest to use watercolors and not oil).

That having been said, I don’t think it’s impossible, and there is lots of good information to be found in these threads:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/17452/
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/16929/ (I see you’ve found that one already!)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/22193/P510/#366461
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/37468/
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/22193/ (generally informative with regards to the AoA SSS shader)
And this: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/42962/ (similar question but no responses yet as of this time)

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06
Sertorial - 24 June 2014 11:09 AM

In the meantime, does anyone know if DAZ Studio is able to achieve the “waxy” look that Firefly can produce with skin? I have been trying to get this for ages and initially thought it was done with SSS, but I can’t find a combination of settings that does it. I did think it might be translucency, but this is quite wrong for skin.

Can anyone help with this? You know what I mean by that slightly waxy skin look that Poser users can get?

I will also attempt a more concrete answer to this. smile Someone who actually knows Poser could probably do better, though.

I would use the Age of Armour Subsurface Shader.* Go with a relatively high Subsurface Scale (maybe 1.00?). Subsurface color…I’d start with white but depending on the skin, you might need a pale gray, pale blue, or pale pink. Think about using “Pre-SSS” instead of “Post-SSS” (in my own opinion, this gives a noticeably waxy look, though I don’t think it’s the same sort of waxy look that Firefly renders have). Specularity should be relatively high, though this depends on lighting also. Don’t make the bump too strong. Use a high-quality light setup, ideally with ambient occlusion and raytraced shadows, and good render settings—3Delight and Firefly seem to react differently to lower settings.

*UberSurface2 might be just as good an option, but I don’t own it. wowie, among others, has gotten some nice, waxy-looking results with US2 though.

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  688
Joined  2013-01-27
Scott-Livingston - 24 June 2014 12:03 PM
Sertorial - 24 June 2014 11:09 AM

In the meantime, does anyone know if DAZ Studio is able to achieve the “waxy” look that Firefly can produce with skin? I have been trying to get this for ages and initially thought it was done with SSS, but I can’t find a combination of settings that does it. I did think it might be translucency, but this is quite wrong for skin.

Can anyone help with this? You know what I mean by that slightly waxy skin look that Poser users can get?

I will also attempt a more concrete answer to this. smile Someone who actually knows Poser could probably do better, though.

I would use the Age of Armour Subsurface Shader.* Go with a relatively high Subsurface Scale (maybe 1.00?). Subsurface color…I’d start with white but depending on the skin, you might need a pale gray, pale blue, or pale pink. Think about using “Pre-SSS” instead of “Post-SSS” (in my own opinion, this gives a noticeably waxy look, though I don’t think it’s the same sort of waxy look that Firefly renders have). Specularity should be relatively high, though this depends on lighting also. Don’t make the bump too strong. Use a high-quality light setup, ideally with ambient occlusion and raytraced shadows, and good render settings—3Delight and Firefly seem to react differently to lower settings.

*UberSurface2 might be just as good an option, but I don’t own it. wowie, among others, has gotten some nice, waxy-looking results with US2 though.

thanks so much for taking the time to reply so fully. I shall give this a go (I do have US2, though I am not sure what pre- and post-sss is…)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06

It’s specific to the AoA shader. To the best of my knowledge, none of the other shaders have it, though I’m not 100% sure. You can learn more about it in Age of Armour’s documentation, but briefly Pre-SSS means the shader will act as if the diffuse map doesn’t show the effects of SSS, while Post-SSS means that the shader acts as if the diffuse map is really showing both diffuse and SSS (as most diffuse maps do, at least skin ones…good diffuse maps have specular highlights removed, but it’s next to impossible to remove the effects of subsurface scattering from a photo of human skin).

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2014 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  796
Joined  2012-02-12

@Sertorial : Do you have some links to some renders of these waxy poser SSS ?

 Signature 

My Deviant Art

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 June 2014 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  688
Joined  2013-01-27
Takeo.Kensei - 24 June 2014 11:17 PM

@Sertorial : Do you have some links to some renders of these waxy poser SSS ?

http://www.noupe.com/img/cg-portraits/cg-portraits-11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/templargfx/whereismyhair_zpsa4c94e7a.jpg
http://www.tightbytes.com/Poser/RDNA/R10-lg.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/templargfx/dc653164-fc43-4740-9c8b-34c06b5ec10f_zps976d7f6c.jpg
http://www.tightbytes.com/Poser/RDNA/BaseSSS.jpg

 

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 June 2014 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  688
Joined  2013-01-27
Scott-Livingston - 24 June 2014 12:03 PM

I would use the Age of Armour Subsurface Shader.* Go with a relatively high Subsurface Scale (maybe 1.00?). Subsurface color…I’d start with white but depending on the skin, you might need a pale gray, pale blue, or pale pink. Think about using “Pre-SSS” instead of “Post-SSS” (in my own opinion, this gives a noticeably waxy look, though I don’t think it’s the same sort of waxy look that Firefly renders have). Specularity should be relatively high, though this depends on lighting also. Don’t make the bump too strong. Use a high-quality light setup, ideally with ambient occlusion and raytraced shadows, and good render settings—3Delight and Firefly seem to react differently to lower settings.

Ok, so this is using your suggestions.

The figure is Genesis 2 and the skin is V5Bree.

Lighting is:
UE2 (occlusion with directional shadows) set at white and 100%
a single distant light (specular only, white, 50%) 60 degrees to the left of the camera

Shader:
AoA subsurface
diffuse strength 90%
pre-/post-SSS set at zero (which is what i assume you mean)
specular - white 55% and glossiness 75%
shading scale 1.0
subsurface colour white
subsurface off/on set at 1.0
subsurface strength set at 20%


(not quite sure what’s causing that odd patchy specular effect)

Image Attachments
SSS_test.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 June 2014 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3802
Joined  2012-02-06
Sertorial - 25 June 2014 08:54 AM

(not quite sure what’s causing that odd patchy specular effect)

Not sure either…could it be a reflection? Make sure reflection strength is 0%. Other than that, I’d call this a good start!

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 June 2014 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  492
Joined  2008-06-25

Hello everyone,

wowie - 24 June 2014 12:57 AM

Maybe you two and mustakettu85 can collaborate on a single tutorial?

Mine went live yesterday =) Please see the link to my Freepository thread at the bottom of this post.

I don’t mind collaborating with someone as nice as Szark, but preferably as an “informal advisor” or something this time - I’m fairly burnt out on actual writing as of right now… remember I also do a lot of tech writing for my job, so it drives me crazy sometimes =)

——

Szark - 23 June 2014 03:16 PM

does that mean I don’t need to do mine that I promised. wink

You definitely should. Mine is centered around subsurface scattering, with the focus on skin; I do touch upon other settings, but briefly. And I know there is demand for a complete indepth guide on using UberSurface.

——

Takeo.Kensei - 24 June 2014 09:15 AM

Wouldn’t it be better to get a tutorial with the overview on different shaders and their difference in implementations?

If only we could get the source codes… Then doing this comparison will be a breeze. All those “black box” experiments tend to take too much time.

Takeo.Kensei - 24 June 2014 09:15 AM

Especially because we barely see anything about US2

Now that my treatise is out, it should fill at least a piece of this gap. I cover the most interesting features of US2.

——

Scott-Livingston - 25 June 2014 08:57 AM

Not sure either…could it be a reflection? Make sure reflection strength is 0%. Other than that, I’d call this a good start!

It IS reflection. AoA’s SSS shader tends to load with raytraced reflection on at 100% strength.


——

Sertorial - 24 June 2014 11:09 AM

Can anyone help with this? You know what I mean by that slightly waxy skin look that Poser users can get?

If the render attached looks good enough for you, please get my tutorial… You will learn how to get this effect, and more.

Here’s my Freepository thread with various (hopefully useful) stuff:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/42984/

Image Attachments
fwdan_alphascalp.png
 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 June 2014 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  688
Joined  2013-01-27
Mustakettu85 - 25 June 2014 03:42 PM

If the render attached looks good enough for you, please get my tutorial… You will learn how to get this effect, and more.

Here’s my Freepository thread with various (hopefully useful) stuff:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/42984/

Yes, this is what I am talking about! I shall check out your tutorial. Thanks! smile

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 7
3