OT: Linden Lab (Second Life) will now own your uploaded content.

VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,879
edited September 2013 in The Commons

Just a heads up for anyone who plays this. I'm no lawyer, but this seems to transfer your content licenses to them. Legal thievery is what it is.


2.3 You grant Linden Lab certain licenses to your User Content.

You retain any and all Intellectual Property Rights you already hold under applicable law in Content you upload, publish, and submit to or through the Servers, Websites, and other areas of the Service, subject to the rights, licenses, and other terms of this Agreement, including any underlying rights of other users or Linden Lab in Content that you may use or modify.

In connection with Content you upload, publish, or submit to any part of the Service, you affirm, represent, and warrant that you own or have all necessary Intellectual Property Rights, licenses, consents, and permissions to use and authorize Linden Lab and users of Second Life to use the Content in the manner contemplated by the Service and these Terms of Service.

Because the law may or may not recognize certain Intellectual Property Rights in any particular Content, you should consult a lawyer if you want legal advice regarding your legal rights in a specific situation. You acknowledge and agree that you are responsible for knowing, protecting, and enforcing any Intellectual Property Rights you hold, and that Linden Lab cannot do so on your behalf.

Except as prohibited by law, you hereby waive, and you agree to waive, any moral rights (including attribution and integrity) that you may have in any User Content, even if it is altered or changed in a manner not agreeable to you. To the extent not waivable, you irrevocably agree not to exercise such rights (if any) in a manner that interferes with any exercise of the granted rights. You understand that you will not receive any fees, sums, consideration or remuneration for any of the rights granted in this Section.

Except as otherwise described in any Additional Terms (such as a contest’s official rules) which will govern the submission of your User Content, you hereby grant to Linden Lab, and you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, sell, re-sell, sublicense (through multiple levels), modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same. You agree that the license includes the right to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing, or providing support or development services in connection with the Service and future improvements to the Service. The license granted in this Section 2.3 is referred to as the "Service Content License."

Linden Lab has no obligation to monitor or enforce your intellectual property rights to your User Content, but you grant us the right to protect and enforce our rights to your User Content, including by bringing and controlling actions in your name and on your behalf (at Linden Lab’s cost and expense, to which you hereby consent and irrevocably appoint Linden Lab as your attorney-in-fact, with the power of substitution and delegation, which appointment is coupled with an interest).


http://lindenlab.com/tos

Pay a special note to the bold.

Post edited by Vaskania on

Comments

  • edited December 1969

    I just read about this over at Rendo, and they changed their TOS to forbid anyone from using their products at Second Life. I have read some vendors are also changing their readme's to reflect the same thing. What I am wondering is what Daz is going to do cause it was my understanding the two are connected. I could be wrong, never really fully understood the connection between Daz and Second Life, but I do know there is one.

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,156
    edited September 2013

    Greetings,
    As far as I can tell, despite what it says on their page, Rendo is _not_ changing their ToS, they are explicitly saying that Second Life's ToS is incompatible with theirs.

    It's not thievery, it's an absolute technical requirement, and this is them making clear what _must_ happen in order for a system like Second Life to operate. The truth is that it's always been that way, Second Life is actually just covering their asses legally, and that makes it more obvious.

    Explanation: If I have an Avatar, Foozilla, and I enter into a public space on Second Life, in order for other users to see me in my full Foozilla glory, Second Life has to take the texture and model I've given them, and send it to everyone in that public space. That's copying and distribution. There's no way to build a game (or 'VR world') like Second Life without doing that. Well, okay, you could pre-render billboards of the character from 360 degrees, in all possible poses, and just send the billboards, but that's pretty much impossible as the number of poses, etc., goes up.

    The real truth is that users who upload content from any site with a license that forbids redistribution are violating the license. Rendo's license includes that, and I'm fairly confident that DAZ's does also. Rendo has historically turned a blind eye because they didn't really understand what was happening, technically. The new contract has made it clear, and suddenly they're realizing that's a bad thing.

    To be clear, I'm not a Second Life-r (my partner has made it very clear that I'm not allowed on there, as I'm likely to get addicted, which is very true) but rather I'm very familiar with games and VR systems similar to it.

    tl;dr - Without being explicitly granted the permission (as that ToS requires) to distribute the stuff you've uploaded for your character, in fact Linden Labs couldn't show your avatar to anyone else without breaking your implicit copyright. So they HAVE to put that section in their terms/contract, to make it clear that you ARE allowing them to show your skins + models to other users.

    Which means that no users should be uploading skins or models that they purchase from a site like DAZ or Renderosity, because those users (us) don't have a license to transfer it to Linden Labs, a distributor as I've described, in the first place. It's not new, just explicit.

    -- Morgan

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,879
    edited September 2013

    I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I play Trackmania, a racing game, in which you upload skins to their servers to allow other people to see your car's skin. This upload is ONLY for the purpose of displaying, it does NOT grant the permission to take my skins, edit them, and resell them as they see fit.

    It is possible to have a license that covers uploading/displaying without all of the "we can take your stuff, edit it as we choose and sell/resell it as we please" garbage.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • AmeesaAmeesa Posts: 282
    edited September 2013

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    As far as I can tell, despite what it says on their page, Rendo is _not_ changing their ToS, they are explicitly saying that Second Life's ToS is incompatible with theirs.

    It's not thievery, it's an absolute technical requirement, and this is them making clear what _must_ happen in order for a system like Second Life to operate. The truth is that it's always been that way, Second Life is actually just covering their asses legally, and that makes it more obvious.

    Explanation: If I have an Avatar, Foozilla, and I enter into a public space on Second Life, in order for other users to see me in my full Foozilla glory, Second Life has to take the texture and model I've given them, and send it to everyone in that public space. That's copying and distribution. There's no way to build a game (or 'VR world') like Second Life without doing that. Well, okay, you could pre-render billboards of the character from 360 degrees, in all possible poses, and just send the billboards, but that's pretty much impossible as the number of poses, etc., goes up.

    The real truth is that users who upload content from any site with a license that forbids redistribution are violating the license. Rendo's license includes that, and I'm fairly confident that DAZ's does also. Rendo has historically turned a blind eye because they didn't really understand what was happening, technically. The new contract has made it clear, and suddenly they're realizing that's a bad thing.

    To be clear, I'm not a Second Life-r (my partner has made it very clear that I'm not allowed on there, as I'm likely to get addicted, which is very true) but rather I'm very familiar with games and VR systems similar to it.

    tl;dr - Without being explicitly granted the permission (as that ToS requires) to distribute the stuff you've uploaded for your character, in fact Linden Labs couldn't show your avatar to anyone else without breaking your implicit copyright. So they HAVE to put that section in their terms/contract, to make it clear that you ARE allowing them to show your skins + models to other users.

    Which means that no users should be uploading skins or models that they purchase from a site like DAZ or Renderosity, because those users (us) don't have a license to transfer it to Linden Labs, a distributor as I've described, in the first place. It's not new, just explicit.

    -- Morgan

    Despite all the people running around in a panic, this is my understanding also. Unlike you, I am a long term resident of SL. I will be there 8 years on New Years Eve. I have always been under the impression that uploading anything other then the renders I make with my 3d content was a huge no-no. If I don't have the license to upload my purchased content to other websites, uploading to SL would be no different. I was amazed to find out that prior to today, Rendo had turned a blind eye to it. I make my own rendered artwork for my home in SL, and eventually may try selling it again, but will never upload any purchased models. I truly enjoy SL, even though some decisions have in the past, given me a WTF moment, but I stay. The friends I make and the things I see will keep me there barring a complete closure.

    Edited to add: I have little fear of SL taking my stuff and selling it elsewhere. It could have been done long before this, if they were that nefarious. It's an ill attempt at a clarification, and I hope they make a better one soon.

    Post edited by Ameesa on
  • AmeesaAmeesa Posts: 282
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I play Trackmania, a racing game, in which you upload skins to their servers to allow other people to see your car's skin. This upload is ONLY for the purpose of displaying, it does NOT grant the permission to take my skins, edit them, and resell them as they see fit.

    It is possible to have a license that covers uploading/displaying without all of the "we can take your stuff, edit it as we choose and sell/resell it as we please" garbage.

    Second Life isn't just for displaying the things you made for yourself. The SL world is, in large part, an intermediary for commerce between creators and their consumers. If you wished to sell those skins you make, you have to grant permissions to the keepers of that world. You have to allow them to put them on their servers, BUT, you also have to allow them to distribute them from that server, sell them from that server, collect the funds, and give those funds to you. There would also be background editing to insure, that the skin you just sold, now shows up in the consumers inventory.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,879
    edited September 2013

    Ameesa said:
    Vaskania said:
    I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I play Trackmania, a racing game, in which you upload skins to their servers to allow other people to see your car's skin. This upload is ONLY for the purpose of displaying, it does NOT grant the permission to take my skins, edit them, and resell them as they see fit.

    It is possible to have a license that covers uploading/displaying without all of the "we can take your stuff, edit it as we choose and sell/resell it as we please" garbage.

    Second Life isn't just for displaying the things you made for yourself. The SL world is, in large part, an intermediary for commerce between creators and their consumers. If you wished to sell those skins you make, you have to grant permissions to the keepers of that world. You have to allow them to put them on their servers, BUT, you also have to allow them to distribute them from that server, sell them from that server, collect the funds, and give those funds to you. There would also be background editing to insure, that the skin you just sold, now shows up in the consumers inventory.
    I understand what SL is. I haven't played it in about ~10 years, but I have played it.

    There is a difference in this TOS. The previous TOS gave them the rights to use your material within SL and nothing else. This version of the TOS grants them the unrestricted rights to do whatever they want with it wherever, whenever, and however they want.

    I can understand needing the rights within SL, but they shouldn't require any usage rights outside of SL purposes.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 36,692
    edited December 1969

    The DAZ 3D license never has allowed the use of 3D content (as opposed to renders) in Second Life, and I wouldn't have thought the Renderosity license did either.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    you hereby grant to Linden Lab, and you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, sell, re-sell, sublicense (through multiple levels), modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same.

    That is way more than giving them the right to "distribute" your content in the game world. That gives them the right to take your content, modify it or not and sell it as their own.

    Since a large draw for a lot of people in SL is making and selling their own creations this gives Linden the right to take what you've made and sell it as their own, cutting you out of sales.

    In fact since you're giving them the right to use your uploaded content for "any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula or medium...", they can take the 3D data for your upload, convert it to a .obj and sell it on TurboSquid and there's nothing you can do about it.

    If this was really just about them being able to "distribute" your content inside the game world they wouldn't need such broad language.

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,221
    edited December 1969

    This is often referred to as 'boiler plate' legal language. It is worded specifically to, as Cypherfox has already said, cover a companies ass for all possible ways they may have to use the material. The first part, "You retain any and all Intellectual Property Rights you already hold under applicable law in Content you upload, publish, and submit to or through the Servers, Websites, and other areas of the Service, subject to the rights, licenses, and other terms of this Agreement, including any underlying rights of other users or Linden Lab in Content that you may use or modify." makes it clear that the following parts only applies to how they need to use the data, it doesn't give them the right sell it outside the Second Life economy structure.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,879
    edited December 1969

    Then what they need to do is re-add the "solely for the purpose or providing and promoting the Service." line to that paragraph.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,257
    edited September 2013

    jestmart said:
    This is often referred to as 'boiler plate' legal language. It is worded specifically to, as Cypherfox has already said, cover a companies ass for all possible ways they may have to use the material. The first part, "You retain any and all Intellectual Property Rights you already hold under applicable law in Content you upload, publish, and submit to or through the Servers, Websites, and other areas of the Service, subject to the rights, licenses, and other terms of this Agreement, including any underlying rights of other users or Linden Lab in Content that you may use or modify." makes it clear that the following parts only applies to how they need to use the data, it doesn't give them the right sell it outside the Second Life economy structure.

    Actually, it does give them that right:

    "... you hereby grant to Linden Lab, and you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, sell, re-sell, sublicense (through multiple levels), modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed..."

    If you upload something to their servers, they can do whatever they want with it, wherever they want - not just in Second Life, and not just on computers.

    For example, they can take your textures, print them on posters, sell the posters, and keep all the money - you've given them a "cost-free right and license" to "make derivative works of" the textures "for any purpose whatsoever in all formats."

    Post edited by robkelk on
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