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General: what forum we need, too?
Posted: 26 June 2012 05:16 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Stupid title. I wasn’t sure if it was okay to post something on the “Should we start a new Render thread?”- or the “I made this image for professional use.”-thread, so I started a new one ... smile

I found the discussion on the “I made this image for professional use.”-thread very useful and I would like to see more of this kind of discussion going on.

Answering the “how do I ...” and “this is not working ...” threads is of course essential and I’m the last one to diminish it (just yesterday I had to check Google to find an answer I already discovered myself smile Hint: to search the old forums use something like this: “smoothing modifier site:forumarchive.daz3d.com”

What I want: some possibilty to talk straight: someone post a render which is crap, call it crap. A render which is nice and nothing else call it nice and trvial. Don’t call it “there’s something to do about it”, if there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Call it “there’s something to do about it” if there’s something to do about it. And then tell what to do.

Yay, that’s calling for some more professionalism, which I’m personally far away from. But I still think we need some rougher playground before e.g. entering the real world at cg-society.

Or something.


edit: oh, so parapgraph breaks. Talk about professional.

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Posted: 26 June 2012 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Frank__ - 26 June 2012 05:16 PM

What I want: some possibilty to talk straight: someone post a render which is crap, call it crap. A render which is nice and nothing else call it nice and trvial..


While I agree with you, this is NOT the place to do it. I’ve tried for years to get people to discuss issues, but unfortunately there are a lot of very sensitive egos here, and doing what you’re suggesting will turn into name calling and childish tit-for-tat. It’s almost guaranteed.


It takes skill and training to be able to objectively give and receive criticism, and it also takes a real desire to learn. Honestly, I think a lot of that is missing here. Keep in mind the reasons why people are here…they are hobbyists who found some neat software, a few of them make some money on what they produce, but in general they are not highly trained professionals. Most do this for their own enjoyment, not to become skilled masters.

 

And to give you an idea of how difficult your suggestion will be, just watch….I’m pretty sure that even the fairly objective analysis I just wrote will initiate some scathing personal attacks instead of, like you suggest, some objective rebuttals and discussion.

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Posted: 26 June 2012 06:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Well before they do Joemamma2000 I would like to say I like the idea Frank but have to agree with Joe. Shame as I am one of those that would enjoy the process. I am a hobbyist wanting to become close to a master, well skilled at least. smile I think I proven to the ones who know me that I can take constructive critique as use if for what it is, help.

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Posted: 26 June 2012 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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You can always join CG Society if you want to get critiqued on your work by professionals.

As far as the motivation behind artwork, I don’t think it is important as most users are not professionals artists, animators or in anyway associated as CG professionals.

A curriculum vitae of one’s graphics background isn’t necessary to give a critique or offer assistance here on this forums that consist of varying levels of users.

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Posted: 26 June 2012 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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    Well I think everyone has expressed the general idea that a lot of folks here will not take criticism well. That said—-Nothing stopping anyone from starting a thread——WIP projects critiques requested——-(Do not submit unless you can take the criticism) or something like that.

    There are a number of people here who would be very helpful to point out ways to make your images better or animations better. It does take a lot of courage to get critiqued but its a very good way to learn ....and to grow better. Even though there are a lot of Hobbyist here do not sell them short——-they are here to make art or tell a story and I think most of them want to learn and improve their skills.

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Posted: 26 June 2012 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Design Acrobat - 26 June 2012 06:26 PM

You can always join CG Society if you want to get critiqued on your work by professionals.


I agree with 3DView, don’t sell people here short. I don’t think most of the posters here want or need critique by master craftsmen professionals, and honestly I don’t think most of those professionals would have the patience to respond to the needs of the people here.


I think the vast majority of what people need here is nothing more than the basic, basics of image design, composition, lighting, etc., not a very in depth professional critique. And it’s the kind of stuff that anyone here could provide with just a small amount of research and study. I guarantee that if most people here took the time and effort to read just one comprehensive book on graphics, they’d be in a position to address much of what’s posted here.


This stuff is not rocket science. But too often I see people who won’t take the tiniest effort to learn some basic skills, and instead dig their heels in with the position “I know what I know and I don’t want to know no mo’, and how dare you question my artistic abilities”.


Maybe as time goes on, and a new group of people come on board, and the egos will slowly fade away and the teachers and learners will step forward. Because, at least in my opinion, it’s a whole lot more fun if you really explore and learn about the craft rather than just sit at your computer and play with pink ponies. 

 

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Posted: 26 June 2012 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Hey Critiquing is easy.
Trouble is people get critiquing mixed up with criticism, which it is not.
I once gave a friend of mine a story to read and his critique was “Did you write this when you were very tired or something.”
That’s not a critique, that’s a criticism.
A proper critique starts off on a positive note and ends on a positive note.
These positive notes are just as important as the meat in the middle.
Both the critiquer and the artist are human beings with egos and personalities - and people often forget this also.



As an example, take a look at this old thread and you will see criticism and not critique.
http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=175357

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Posted: 26 June 2012 08:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I do not find “What Da fuk is Dat?” very helpful as a critique on my YouTube videos tongue rolleye
likewise, “Why do you upload this shit?”
but if they take the time to point out actual bits that need improving (given the enormity of areas to tackle) I do pay attention.

mind you I get a lot of criticism on my saggy floppy CG boobs telling me I need to learn how to do proper firm boobs not nana boobs.
(like those found static ones by default on figures I suppose that act like silicone implants tongue rolleye )
I put a lot of work into making floppy saggy boobs that swing with movements, want to do more with bellies and arses too!
my efforts are not appreciated. red face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-3rTUIo5YQ
naughtier non-red/cyan anaglyph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJbuVCjDjGg
(those were done in iClone using mostly Daz content including Genesis for the Lycan stripper)

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Posted: 26 June 2012 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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yes floppy saggy boobs are hard to do smile

I once received ‘critique’ on an atrocious video I made:

” i feel so sorry for who did this video
you’v got skil but you could do beter if you use “blender 3d”“


mind you it was from this person smile

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnshepherdsg

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Posted: 26 June 2012 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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actually given he is only 22 and a bit of a one software fanboi one eyed dork, his modelling quite good!
(I cannot use Blender for shit!)
I know how good your stuff is already but if he commented on my video I would indeed listen!
my harshest commenters and critics never have videos on their channels when I look.
so they must be above posting their skillful work, pity as I could learn how they would do it otherwise.

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Posted: 27 June 2012 12:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 26 June 2012 05:42 PM


While I agree with you, this is NOT the place to do it. I’ve tried for years to get people to discuss issues, but unfortunately there are a lot of very sensitive egos here, and doing what you’re suggesting will turn into name calling and childish tit-for-tat. It’s almost guaranteed.

 

...and your just talking about the administrators!  (LOL)
Seriously, I agree with you completely.

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Posted: 27 June 2012 12:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Are we still talking about it, or doing it?

Call it the BRUTALLY HONEST RIP ME TO SHREDS AND MAKE ME CRY thread

Seems simple *shrug* no one is posting any pics as it is.

How about we have an informal rule that you have to try several of the suggestions and repost the results, or just do a better job and repost the results. Can be a Before/After and we see if there is any merit to this brutal honesty business…, or is it just egofapping?

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Posted: 27 June 2012 12:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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What I always find amusing is that it is seldom the person who is being critiqued that does the complaining - they normally accept good advice - it’s others who jump on board and have a go at the critiquer (is there such a word?)

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Posted: 27 June 2012 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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critiquer (is there such a word?)

Heh there is now Roy smile
nice to see you back too


and how true what you said!

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Posted: 27 June 2012 12:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Hi head wax

Yeah, I’ve been lurking here since the Dawn of the New Era

My rule on forums is that if I have nothing useful to say, I don’t say it.

Woops, just broken that rule

Cheers

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Posted: 27 June 2012 01:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Haha smile No that was useful because you have put your hand up and said ‘I am here, I will be a critiquer’! Critiquers of the world unite… smile

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