Make a living as a creator on Daz3d?

udgang99-2121812udgang99-2121812 Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hey guys,

I was wondering if any of you guys have an idea wether a creator here on Daz3d can actually make a living, making stuff for the 3d store?
I mean, people like Stone Mason, Antfarm aso have been around for years, and have an impressive amount of stuff in their stores ...

Of course, it's all about the quality of the products the creators produce, but are there buyers enough for a good 3d-creator to make a living?

I'm just currious. ;-)

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Comments

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 792
    edited December 1969

    I really doubt that. Why?

    I dont know exactly but I think DAZ keeps some money for the sold items, so you do not get the full price paid for your sold items (not sure about it, but I think it works that way because DAZ sales the items via their store).
    So, just do a quick calculation of how many items you need at which price and how many buyers you need each month to have enough money for living. Sounds a bit utopical to me. Of course it also depends on how much money you need for living :-)

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 1,976
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    I really doubt that. Why?

    I dont know exactly but I think DAZ keeps some money for the sold items, so you do not get the full price paid for your sold items (not sure about it, but I think it works that way because DAZ sales the items via their store).
    So, just do a quick calculation of how many items you need at which price and how many buyers you need each month to have enough money for living. Sounds a bit utopical to me. Of course it also depends on how much money you need for living :-)

    There are a few that actually do this full time. Depends on the quality of the items you put out and your work ethic.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 2,629
    edited December 1969

    There are a handful who make a living doing this work full time.
    I am one of them.
    Self employment like this is not a path for everyone. You have to be very driven, and constantly creating.
    You have to be prepared for the lean months, and know that sometimes no matter how much work you put into a project and how much time you spent on it...it may still be a huge flop and you will have to eat all that time you spent and just move on to the next thing and hope it does better.

    Having a large back catalog of products helps you make it through the flops, but it always hurts when they do flop.

    Plus you also have to keep up with all the new technology. You cannot expect something that you made two years before to have any real appeal to a new market who expects more from the products because of the fact that technology can do more. So it is constant learning.

    So yeah...it can be done....but you have to have a real strong drive to do it and be able to work through the tough times.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,588
    edited September 2013

    To do this full time is a risky business. Say for example you spend a month making a product and that product doesn't sell. You can end up in deep trouble with bills and finances lol. So you have to release more frequent products in case one of them doesn't do well. We basically live in front of our PC's making content. Best bet is to always start out part time, see how well your products do, then if you feel it can be sustainable, go for it. It becomes a bit easier once you have a name established. But once full time you cannot afford to slowdown, unless you have a huge back catalog you can rely on for those months when productivity is a bit slow, or when you are working on big projects that take a long time to develop. And we do not mind Daz taking 50% because they do all the marketing and stuff that would cost us even more if we had to do or sell it ourselves. Plus Daz has the biggest market, so to sell here is worth it.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,751
    edited December 1969

    without naming websites how big an affect do sites that post pirated content interfere with your creation process. As a PA do these things show up on your radar? Is the ownnes on the PA to pursue the incidents or does Daz try and remedy this situation?

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,588
    edited September 2013

    Piracy will always be an issue. Sure it does affect sales in a way, but thankfully we have enough honest people here which allows us to continue to do what we do. And we are well aware of all the sites our stuff are pirated on, its removing them thats the issue. Once it goes viral, there is nothing you can do really. So all we can do is shake our fists and move on:) It is demotivating, but thats life. You just have to pick yourself up and move on.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 2,629
    edited December 1969

    Piracy is a whole different issue.
    We all try to fight it as much as we can...but it really does drain away alot of the incentive to keep doing this when you see something you make show up on pirate site within hours of being released.....and there are more pirated downloads than actual sales.

    People kid themselves that it is a victimless crime when they pirate stuff.......but it does steal right out of our mouths all the months of hard work we put into developing the best products we possibly can.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,588
    edited December 1969

    Ye true. So when we actually get a sale on a product, we bow our heads and say thank you:)

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 827
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Ye true. So when we actually get a sale on a product, we bow our heads and say thank you:)

    I sort of understand the urge to pirate some of the applications out there that cost 100's if not 1000's of dollars, that's a lot of money for something that you're not really going to use professionally. Though with all the viruses and malware out there today I'd be very leery of pretty much anything downloaded from one of those sites.

    That said, I've never even considered pirating any of the PA's content. Nothing personal Zev & Rawn but nothing you guys put out is something that I NEED so bad that I can't wait until I can afford to pay for it. I mean most of the stuff here is less than $20.00, there is nothing in the store that anyone has to have that can't wait until they can save up the $20.00 to spend on it.

    Of course I used to work with a guy that would spend his evenings grabbing tons of music and movies from torrent sites and 90% of it he never listened to or watched. He had terabytes of the stuff just to say he had it. I guess it kept him off the streets.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 2,629
    edited December 1969

    yeah..thats part of the rub.....we really do price things as low as possible, so it is a real kick in the butt

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 2,382
    edited September 2013

    udgang99 said:
    Apparently you get 50% of the sales price (or less)...

    You have to do the math on that, right now we're in the middle of the PA Sale, many customers say they only buy when things are on discount, so let's look at the numbers.

    Product price $ 10.00
    50% discount during sales $5.00
    DAZ has a 50% brokerage fee
    PA portion $2.50
    oh yah then there are those coupons which can easily drop the earning to $1.78, $1.97 range depending how it's applied.

    Do the math of 60% discount...

    Do the math of 70% discount...

    and then how many units do you have to sell, to get your time cost back for the week or two it took to make it.

    As for Piracy, when you see that your product has had 10 times more illegal downloads than actual legal purchases, it hurts; it hurts your motivation to keep doing this.

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,740
    edited December 1969

    Not impossible, but you'd probably have a better chance becoming a professional basketball player. Don't quit your day job.

  • JohnDelaquioxJohnDelaquiox Posts: 1,064
    edited December 1969

    I think a good way to start is making some nice freebie items, then taking on commissions, then maybe putting out some less expensive items and go from there. I know a lot of vendors that do really well and probably the same amount or more that do not do so well. I think if you are just starting out you could try doing something for dawn and have hivewire host it.

  • millighostmillighost Posts: 170
    edited December 1969

    ...
    As for Piracy, when you see that your product has had 10 times more illegal downloads than actual legal purchases, it hurts; it hurts your motivation to keep doing this.

    How do you know how many illegal downloads your product has? Do DAZ collect this data and give you reports; or is there an independent website that has that information (in which case i really would love to know about it, the url, i mean)?

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,643
    edited December 1969

    a lot of those sites show the number of downloads to date.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,588
    edited December 1969

    On most of them you can see the amount of times it has been downloaded, specially if hosted by storage sites like Megaupload and those types.

  • PennamePenname Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Well, I am very grateful to all of you who continue producing content for us! Like many artistic pursuits, not everyone breaks into the "big time". A lot of us make pocket money from our art. I'd be the first to admit that lack of interest is a huge factor in my collection of pocket change. I'm always afraid that something I love to do will turn into a chore. But at least my pocket money allows me to buy more brilliant content. Thanks again to all the PAs.

  • JohnDelaquioxJohnDelaquiox Posts: 1,064
    edited December 1969

    When it comes to Piracy most vendors check for themselves on Google or someone in the community will inform them. Other sites sometimes check the galleries, if people find you using stuff you have not bought they take action.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,643
    edited September 2013

    If you ever come across something that you know is being sold on DAZ 3D please submit a support ticket to Copyright/Abuse so DAZ's copyright dept can look into it and possibly have the product removed from the site.

    Post edited by frank0314 on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    udgang99 said:
    Hey guys,

    I was wondering if any of you guys have an idea wether a creator here on Daz3d can actually make a living, making stuff for the 3d store?
    I mean, people like Stone Mason, Antfarm aso have been around for years, and have an impressive amount of stuff in their stores ...

    Of course, it's all about the quality of the products the creators produce, but are there buyers enough for a good 3d-creator to make a living?

    I'm just currious. ;-)

    Short version: it's not something to quit and switch to if you've already got a highly paid job with benefits, but it can make a very nice transition from the service-sector jobs available to a lot of disappointed college grads.

    Long version:

    This is my primary source of income, with Renderosity representing a lesser but still useful one (this is my bread and butter, that is a nice "movies and videogames" bonus). Of course, it's taken me a few years to get to that point. I've been doing this in a serious way since about '09 (the year of my first successful Rendo product) and as a DAZ PA for just over two years now, I think. I started out doing 3d part-time while I worked a part-time day job at a coffee shop.


    Fellow PAs who have posted are right in that you have to be prepared for the risks and you have to be ready to do the work, but I work fewer hours at this than any job I've ever had, given that I don't have to commute anywhere to do it. Of course, I also worked some "overtime" getting my stores to where I can afford to work at a slower rate. And 3d permeates my life. Everywhere I go I think about it and about fashion, genre content, popular media, new tools and techniques. I keep a list of product ideas on my phone, and a paper notepad for sketches in my purse. It's not a job I pick up and put down. I'm fine with that because I just love it to death.


    The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you have to be prepared to keep up with the tech, to learn new techniques and move forward as the market moves forward, or you will be left behind. You can coast with basic mastery of your tools and programs, but that's not how you excel. This is a learning job in a way that few other jobs are. I end up using the scientific method almost every day, in a way that I never would have if I'd actually become a biologist (which is what I trained for originally!). We all grumble at innovation at some point, but finding the mental space for it is absolutely mandatory to working in 3d.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,393
    edited December 1969

    Something to ponder, I may be wrong. But...

    Things may have changed, but one thing to consider too (I was an online business owner) is the HOST (server) of the website might be held legally responsible if they are made aware of pirated material. (So could the registrar, as your legal agreement states you will not engage in illegal activities. Double whammy.) I SO enjoyed having a site removed not once, but twice in 2005. That's all easily tracked through Internic WhoIs. So they were posting my images and I sent the host a warning email that action wasn't taken within 5 days, it would be followed up by my attorney to the State Attorney General for them hosting pirated material. BAMM. Site was down (not just my content!) within 2 days the first time, and my content within 8 hours the second time. State Attorney Generals are big on fraud, particularly the internet. On May 27, 2011, 42 out of 50 State Attorney Generals petitioned Congress to get on the ball with internet piracy.

    If you're in another state, wonder if that could be interstate fraud and it would involve the feds? I'm really not in the loop on this anymore. This is just a thought. If the website doesn't have contact info, WhoIs will have it-it's required by law. If they don't, report them and let the fun begin with THAT violation.

    http://www.internic.net/whois.html
    Tells you the server and registrar.

    Someone with legal background would know more on this, but it worked for me, twice.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,406
    edited December 1969

    There will always be pirates. Its not about getting a program they can use but instead about getting something expensive they cannot afford and feeling good about it even though most never bother using it or even installing it. If any of them were satisfied with what they had then they would stop. Also, they are always trying to out do one another with how much they have. I honestly dont waste my time looking for pirated copies of my stuff. I have better things to do then to loose my peace over somthing like this. I feel my time is better spent making more and enjoying what I do.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    There will always be pirates. Its not about getting a program they can use but instead about getting something expensive they cannot afford and feeling good about it even though most never bother using it or even installing it. If any of them were satisfied with what they had then they would stop. Also, they are always trying to out do one another with how much they have. I honestly dont waste my time looking for pirated copies of my stuff. I have better things to do then to loose my peace over somthing like this. I feel my time is better spent making more and enjoying what I do.

    Same. Those aren't people who would be buying if they couldn't steal, so they're not "lost" customers.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,751
    edited September 2013

    Many piracy sites and file hosting sites are not based in the United States, and many countries do not have copyright laws and/or any legal obligation to the US copyright laws.

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,406
    edited December 1969

    ps, please dont take my previous comment as condoning it as i do not.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,588
    edited December 1969

    Disagree.. They are lost customers. I know plenty of people who buy legit stuff, but when money is tight, they resort to piracy. End of they day they never end up buying the original product.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,993
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    ps, please dont take my previous comment as condoning it as i do not.

    Ditto. I just mean it's not worth giving myself a coronary over.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,751
    edited December 1969

    and I don't think that if someone pirates they wouldn't buy it to begin with. There were posts on this forum for a software package complaining of one products serialization was encumbering and unnecessary and dozens of other posts on another forum asking for a crack for the same software that actually worked. Some artists who work for commission pirate figures and props, some pirates have actually stated they believe the artists who develop models actually pirate the software to model so it's okay to pirate.

    I guess I have a question and that question is; is there something that's being overlooked that would benefit the artist, and stop the pirate like encryption to an email or account or something along those lines?

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 1,598
    edited December 1969

    This thread prompted me to do a Google search for my own products, and sure enough, SPEX for Genesis is on a torrent site. I finally feel "legit", since none of my older Rendo products appeared on pirate sites. LOL

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