OS X install Carrara 8.5

AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

So I decided to upgrade.
I've read the forums, looked for Daz help to install content, tried moving them to "Package/Data", etc., and nothing.
Is it too much to ask to install software, open the program, and have it work?
I've tried moving content to several folders in the Carrara "Package", but to no avail.

I haven't been able to use Carrara for a couple years because of OS X updates, and was so excited to finally purchase an update.
First time opening 32 bit, it crashed.
Had to open 64 bit, enter name and serial to get 32 bit to work.

Just cut Mac OS loose if you don't want to support it. Easier than going through this crap, just to try and make it work.

Sigh.

Comments

  • AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    And another thing.
    Let's say I do move contents to the package folder. Do I have to duplicate contents for both 32 bit and 64 bit?
    I don't know which I'd rather use yet, because I've been to busy just trying to get them to work.
    So much for being excited for an upgrade…

  • schlazer_6e1d39b73bschlazer_6e1d39b73b Posts: 105
    edited December 1969

    So I decided to upgrade.
    I've read the forums, looked for Daz help to install content, tried moving them to "Package/Data", etc., and nothing.
    Is it too much to ask to install software, open the program, and have it work?
    I've tried moving content to several folders in the Carrara "Package", but to no avail.

    I haven't been able to use Carrara for a couple years because of OS X updates, and was so excited to finally purchase an update.
    First time opening 32 bit, it crashed.
    Had to open 64 bit, enter name and serial to get 32 bit to work.

    Just cut Mac OS loose if you don't want to support it. Easier than going through this crap, just to try and make it work.

    Sigh.

    Assuming you are referring to the Native Content (shaders, landscapes, etc.)...


    - Go to your “Applications” folder

    - Find the “DAZ 3D” folder and open it

    - Open the "Carrara8.5 64-bit" folder

    - RIGHT click or CONTROL click on the Carrara application icon

    - A menu will pop up. Choose “Show Package Contents”

    - Open the “Contents” folder

    - Open the “MacOS” folder

    - Put the "Scenes" and "Presets" folder into the "MacOS" folder.

    Done.

    Now when you launch Carrara all the content will appear in the tabbed browser at the bottom of the screen.

  • schlazer_6e1d39b73bschlazer_6e1d39b73b Posts: 105
    edited December 1969

    And another thing.
    Let's say I do move contents to the package folder. Do I have to duplicate contents for both 32 bit and 64 bit?
    I don't know which I'd rather use yet, because I've been to busy just trying to get them to work.
    So much for being excited for an upgrade…

    Yes. If you have two different versions of Carrara installed you will have to do it for both. Just follow the directions above.

  • AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    Thank you SO MUCH.
    I was putting things in MacOS/Data, along with the other Carrara folders.
    I'm excited again!

    Sorry for the rant…

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited September 2013

    Don't forget to move the Data folder as well

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac

    edited to add: actually "move" is the wrong thing to do if you plan on using DIM (which I highly recommend). If it was installed with DIM then make symbolic links per the linked instructions.

    Post edited by thoromyr on
  • AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    DIM looks to be a great help in managing content. I hope it succeeds.
    Terminal commands all done. Time to have fun.
    Thanks again.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited September 2013

    thoromyr said:
    Don't forget to move the Data folder as well

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac

    edited to add: actually "move" is the wrong thing to do if you plan on using DIM (which I highly recommend). If it was installed with DIM then make symbolic links per the linked instructions.


    :ahhh::exclaim::question: Holy moly! Either I'm stupid, or there's an enormous error in those instructions in the link.

    While the instructions for the Presets and Scenes folders seem to be correct, the information regarding the Data folder is not.

    In my Macintosh Carrara installation the "Data" folder was installed correctly. It was already located inside the Carrara.app package.
    The instructions in the link above would have you make a symbolic link at the same location of the existing Data folder. In addition to that, the link would point to a non-existing folder in the Carrara8.5 folder.
    While my first thought was that this would clobber the actuall Data folder in the Carrara.app package, what actually happens is that the symbolic link is created one level deeper, inside the Data folder.
    The result of this operation ends up adding a broken symbolic link into the existing contents of the Data folder.
    Doing this will most likely not affect Carrara's operation, but it is wrong nonetheless.

    It is my opinion the the writer of these instructions actually meant to specify the "pics" folder rather than the "Data" folder. In my Carrara installation, the pics folder was incorrectly installed by the DIM, and needed to be moved into the Carrara.app package.

    Post edited by de3an on
  • AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    Oh great.
    I don't use the Terminal much, so I hope I didn't screw anything up.

    :-o

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    thoromyr said:
    Don't forget to move the Data folder as well

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac

    edited to add: actually "move" is the wrong thing to do if you plan on using DIM (which I highly recommend). If it was installed with DIM then make symbolic links per the linked instructions.


    :ahhh::exclaim::question: Holy moly! Either I'm stupid, or there's an enormous error in those instructions in the link.

    While the instructions for the Presets and Scenes folders seem to be correct, the information regarding the Data folder is not.

    In my Macintosh Carrara installation the "Data" folder was installed correctly. It was already located inside the Carrara.app package.
    The instructions in the link above would have you make a symbolic link at the same location of the existing Data folder. In addition to that, the link would point to a non-existing folder in the Carrara8.5 folder.
    While my first thought was that this would clobber the actuall Data folder in the Carrara.app package, what actually happens is that the symbolic link is created one level deeper, inside the Data folder.
    The result of this operation ends up adding a broken symbolic link into the existing contents of the Data folder.
    Doing this will most likely not affect Carrara's operation, but it is wrong nonetheless.

    It is my opinion the the writer of these instructions actually meant to specify the "pics" folder rather than the "Data" folder. In my Carrara installation, the pics folder was incorrectly installed be the DIM, and needed to be moved into the Carrara.app package.

    How much of the installation did you do yourself vs DIM? There are three content packages to be installed and it is a known problem (unless it has already been fixed) that DIM doesn't put them in the correct location. The problem may be limited to DIM and not affect the standalone installers.

    Did you miss installing one so that folder didn't exist? I'm not saying you did anything wrong or missed anything, but the folder certainly existed on my system. OTOH, I had already messed with symlinks (apparently I missed one, or I'm not sure what because it didn't work) and otherwise managing things from the terminal (I put all of fenric's fine extensions in a Extensions/Fenric, and DCG's under Extensions/DCG, etc., to keep things organized).

    It seems that because it is called Carrara8 native content and there is Carrara 8.5 native content that some people have not installed the Carrara 8 version thinking it was replaced by the 8.5.

    Certainly after following those instructions I was able to access the wizards again.

    Note: At least on linux if you try to create a symbolic link to an existing destination the operation will fail with an error (I'm not on a mac at present) so running the indicated commands should not ruin anything.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    Oh great.
    I don't use the Terminal much, so I hope I didn't screw anything up.

    :-o


    Did you follow GigaShadow's instructions for moving the Presets and Scenes folders, or did you use the Terminal procedure?
    Since the UNIX operating system accessed by the Terminal app seems to be smart enough not to clobber the original folders, I think you'll be ok.

    I'm assuming that the DIM installed my Carrara in the same way as everyone else's.

  • AcumowchekAcumowchek Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    So far so good. Everything seems to be working.
    I'm at work right now, so playing time is limited. ;-)

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    ah, I missed you saying the Data symlink would be made in MacOS/Data/... yes, that would happen because they are directories. Worse, if there was an (incorrect) Data folder in the application bundle the symlink wouldn't help anything by having the symlink created in the wrong place.

    it is easy to check: for those not comfortable in a terminal navigate to the carrara app in Finder. If you don't see a Data folder along side it then the symlink command would certainly not help. If it is there, right click and select show contents. Then browse to Contents/MacOS/Data and see if there is a "Data" entry inside.

    If you have two Data folders (one in the Carrara folder, one in the carrara application bundle that isn't a symlink) and aren't comfortable sorting things out yourself I *highly* recommend putting in a ticket with customer support.

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    I'm assuming that the DIM installed my Carrara in the same way as everyone else's.

    If you used DIM, it should've been installed in the same way. Did you install all three content bundles? I'm not at home to check, but I remember DIM showing three content "files" in addition to the C8.5 application. They should be:

    Carrara 8.5 Pro Native Content Pro
    Carrara 8.5 Native Content Pro
    Carrara 8 Native Content

    I guess I've been assuming Pro -- hadn't thought about that, my bad if that is the case. But my understanding is that some people have not installed "Carrara 8 Native Content" due to it not being labeled as 8.5 and are missing the base content. Which it would not surprise if that is where the Data folder comes from (I haven't checked and am not at home to use DIM to see what the files associated with each are).

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    thoromyr said:
    How much of the installation did you do yourself vs DIM? There are three content packages to be installed and it is a known problem (unless it has already been fixed) that DIM doesn't put them in the correct location. The problem may be limited to DIM and not affect the standalone installers.

    Did you miss installing one so that folder didn't exist? I'm not saying you did anything wrong or missed anything, but the folder certainly existed on my system. OTOH, I had already messed with symlinks (apparently I missed one, or I'm not sure what because it didn't work) and otherwise managing things from the terminal (I put all of fenric's fine extensions in a Extensions/Fenric, and DCG's under Extensions/DCG, etc., to keep things organized).

    It seems that because it is called Carrara8 native content and there is Carrara 8.5 native content that some people have not installed the Carrara 8 version thinking it was replaced by the 8.5.

    Certainly after following those instructions I was able to access the wizards again.

    Note: At least on linux if you try to create a symbolic link to an existing destination the operation will fail with an error (I'm not on a mac at present) so running the indicated commands should not ruin anything.


    I let the DIM install everything and ended up with a Carrara8.5 64-bit folder that contained the Presets and Scenes (and pics) folders, but not the Data folder. The Data folder was already installed inside the Carrara.app/Contents/MacOS folder.

    The Presets folder was correctly built by the DIM to include all three of the native content downloads. It was just not installed in the correct final position.

    The pics folder has also been located in Carrara.app/Contents/MacOS in all of my previous Carrara installs, so I'm assuming that it also needs to be moved.

    If your installation had the Data folder located in the Carrara8.5 64-bit folder, then I'm at a loss to understand why mine was not.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,952
    edited December 1969

    We are testing the fix to Install Manager, with luck you will have it next week.

    The problem with actually moving the folders, as opposed to using the Sim link is that Install Manager won't know where you moved them to, so if there is an update, Install Manager can't do things correctly.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    We are testing the fix to Install Manager, with luck you will have it next week.

    The problem with actually moving the folders, as opposed to using the Sim link is that Install Manager won't know where you moved them to, so if there is an update, Install Manager can't do things correctly.


    The sym link procedure has only recently been mentioned. The conventional wisdom has been to move the folders to the location where they have always been, and that is what people have been doing to make Carrara functional.
    If the update to the DIM does not take that into account, and further hoses the install due to that, then it seem that DAZ will continue to have support issues to deal with.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,952
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    We are testing the fix to Install Manager, with luck you will have it next week.

    The problem with actually moving the folders, as opposed to using the Sim link is that Install Manager won't know where you moved them to, so if there is an update, Install Manager can't do things correctly.


    The sym link procedure has only recently been mentioned. The conventional wisdom has been to move the folders to the location where they have always been, and that is what people have been doing to make Carrara functional.
    If the update to the DIM does not take that into account, and further hoses the install due to that, then it seem that DAZ will continue to have support issues to deal with.

    It It won't hose your Carrara Install. It just doesn't know where the files got moved to. When you manually move files, you may have to manually move them again.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    We are testing the fix to Install Manager, with luck you will have it next week.

    The problem with actually moving the folders, as opposed to using the Sim link is that Install Manager won't know where you moved them to, so if there is an update, Install Manager can't do things correctly.


    The sym link procedure has only recently been mentioned. The conventional wisdom has been to move the folders to the location where they have always been, and that is what people have been doing to make Carrara functional.
    If the update to the DIM does not take that into account, and further hoses the install due to that, then it seem that DAZ will continue to have support issues to deal with.

    It It won't hose your Carrara Install. It just doesn't know where the files got moved to. When you manually move files, you may have to manually move them again.


    Yes, I know that. But how many of your average users, who have been lead by the hand to move the files in order to make Carrara fully functional, will know that?

    What will happen if people don't move the folders back to where they were before they start using the new DIM? Will it not be able to reinstall the content because it can't uninstall it first?

    I will not need help sorting it out, but I expect a whole lot of people will. Unless the DIM sorts it out for them. Which was the only reason I replied to your post... to encourage you (DAZ) to build in as much hand holding as possible.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,952
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    de3an said:
    We are testing the fix to Install Manager, with luck you will have it next week.

    The problem with actually moving the folders, as opposed to using the Sim link is that Install Manager won't know where you moved them to, so if there is an update, Install Manager can't do things correctly.


    The sym link procedure has only recently been mentioned. The conventional wisdom has been to move the folders to the location where they have always been, and that is what people have been doing to make Carrara functional.
    If the update to the DIM does not take that into account, and further hoses the install due to that, then it seem that DAZ will continue to have support issues to deal with.

    It It won't hose your Carrara Install. It just doesn't know where the files got moved to. When you manually move files, you may have to manually move them again.


    Yes, I know that. But how many of your average users, who have been lead by the hand to move the files in order to make Carrara fully functional, will know that?

    What will happen if people don't move the folders back to where they were before they start using the new DIM? Will it not be able to reinstall the content because it can't uninstall it first?

    I will not need help sorting it out, but I expect a whole lot of people will. Unless the DIM sorts it out for them. Which was the only reason I replied to your post... to encourage you (DAZ) to build in as much hand holding as possible.

    When it can't uninstall, it won't. When it reinstalls, it should install right over the top of the files that are already there. Note the key word should.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited September 2013

    thoromyr said:
    de3an said:
    I'm assuming that the DIM installed my Carrara in the same way as everyone else's.

    If you used DIM, it should've been installed in the same way. Did you install all three content bundles? I'm not at home to check, but I remember DIM showing three content "files" in addition to the C8.5 application. They should be:

    Carrara 8.5 Pro Native Content Pro
    Carrara 8.5 Native Content Pro
    Carrara 8 Native Content

    I guess I've been assuming Pro -- hadn't thought about that, my bad if that is the case. But my understanding is that some people have not installed "Carrara 8 Native Content" due to it not being labeled as 8.5 and are missing the base content. Which it would not surprise if that is where the Data folder comes from (I haven't checked and am not at home to use DIM to see what the files associated with each are).


    I just checked the DIM's log of what was installed where, and the Data folder is indeed installed from the "Carrara85ProMac64bit" download, and was installed into the correct position initially (/DAZ 3D/Carrara8.5 64-bit/Carrara.app/Contents/MacOS/Data).

    In fact I just unzipped the IM00016777-04_Carrara85ProMac64bit.zip file into a new folder manually, and can verify that the Data folder is included and installed in Carrara.app/Contents/MacOS/, and not at the root Carrara8.5 64-bit folder.

    Are you absolutely certain that yours was not installed to this location?

    Post edited by de3an on
  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited September 2013

    When it can't uninstall, it won't. When it reinstalls, it should install right over the top of the files that are already there. Note the key word should.


    Then there should be no problem. :)

    But what's up with this knowledge base article telling people to make a sim link to the Data folder, when the Data folder is already properly installed?
    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac


    And what about the "pics" folder? Which should, as far as I can tell, also be installed in the Carrara.app package but is not.

    Post edited by de3an on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,952
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    When it can't uninstall, it won't. When it reinstalls, it should install right over the top of the files that are already there. Note the key word should.


    Then there should be no problem. :)

    But what's up with this knowledge base article telling people to make a sim link to the Data folder, when the Data folder is already properly installed?
    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac


    And what about the "pics" folder? Which should, as far as I can tell, also be install in the Carrara.app package but is not.

    Not all of the Carrara content is installing the data folder in the correct place. The Pics folder can live there until we get the fix, as near as I can tell there are no relative references to it and the placement doesn't cause a wizard to fail.

  • CarltonMartinCarltonMartin Posts: 147
    edited September 2013

    Never mind.

    Post edited by CarltonMartin on
  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:
    When it can't uninstall, it won't. When it reinstalls, it should install right over the top of the files that are already there. Note the key word should.


    Then there should be no problem. :)

    But what's up with this knowledge base article telling people to make a sim link to the Data folder, when the Data folder is already properly installed?
    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac


    Not all of the Carrara content is installing the data folder in the correct place.


    You don't understand what I'm trying to say.
    The "Data" folder comes pre-installed in the Carrara application. It is not a secondary install. It is not being installed outside of the Carrara.app package.
    However, Kraig Hausmann, in the knowledge base article:
    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/22530930-Native-Content-in-Carrara-8-5-Mac
    is instructing the users to create a sim link to it as if it were improperly installed.

    The "Data" folder comes zipped up in the Carrara.app package unlike the native content folders.

    I believe that the knowledge base article is in error and needs to be corrected.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,943
    edited September 2013

    If it helps, I've just added the following:
    Carrara 8.5 Installation Guide

    and updated:
    Carrara 8.5 and Genesis

    Hope it helps. Could also use a good proof reading as hospitals make me groggy and strange.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • schlazer_6e1d39b73bschlazer_6e1d39b73b Posts: 105
    edited December 1969

    de3an said:

    In my Macintosh Carrara installation the "Data" folder was installed correctly. It was already located inside the Carrara.app package.

    This was my experience as well, which is why I only said to move Presets and Scenes into the MacOS folder.

    I didn't use the DIM. I don't like it and find it rather pointless (at least for the way I use Carrara). I used the basic installer from my product library to install 8.5. I prefer to do it manually than to use some wizard thing.

    Since I still have 8.1 on the Mac I just opened both and compared the contents of each folder. I wasn't too hard to see what was missing and where it had to go. So I just option dragged the contents from 8.1 to 8.5 and then added the new 8.5 content to it. Done and done.

    If you ask me, getting involved with terminal mode is an insane solution. It's a complete 180 from the purpose of something like the DIM which is to make things simpler. People who like simpler, who like to use wizards to do their installs are generally not the kind of people who feel comfortable entering command line code. Even when given explicit directions on how to do so. One false move in the terminal and you're hosed.

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    to de3an:

    sorry, I finally got to DIM and checking:

    The Presets and Scenes folders are both from the Carrara 8 Native Content and installed (incorrectly) to the application folder rather than inside the application bundle. The Data folder is from the Carrara 8.5 Pro (Mac 64-bit) installer and, as might be expected, is installed correctly in the application bundle. Whoever put together the page I linked to erroneously included the instructions for making a symlink for Data.

    Some, but not necessarily all, of the other installers that *should* be putting files in the application bundle did put files in a Data folder inside the application folder. For example, Howie's Maple Meadows is affected.

    I'm going to put this information into a ticket for Daz so hopefully they will get it straightened out, but currently *some* individual content *is* using a Data folder in the application directory even though the Carrara installer itself does it correctly.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 531
    edited December 1969

    thoromyr said:
    to de3an:

    sorry, I finally got to DIM and checking:

    The Presets and Scenes folders are both from the Carrara 8 Native Content and installed (incorrectly) to the application folder rather than inside the application bundle. The Data folder is from the Carrara 8.5 Pro (Mac 64-bit) installer and, as might be expected, is installed correctly in the application bundle. Whoever put together the page I linked to erroneously included the instructions for making a symlink for Data.

    Some, but not necessarily all, of the other installers that *should* be putting files in the application bundle did put files in a Data folder inside the application folder. For example, Howie's Maple Meadows is affected.

    I'm going to put this information into a ticket for Daz so hopefully they will get it straightened out, but currently *some* individual content *is* using a Data folder in the application directory even though the Carrara installer itself does it correctly.


    Thanks for the additional info, thoromyr! That pretty much confirms my suspision that the DAZ Knowledge Base article is incorrect. Since a "Data" folder will always be present in the Carrara.app/Contents/MacOS/ folder, then trying to create a symbolic link at that same location to a secondary "Data" folder located in the Carrara8.5 directory, is not the desired action. The two Data folders should instead be merged. (I must not be using any products that create the secondary Data folder.)

    I hope people don't make matters worse while trying to following those Knowledge Base instructions.

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 391
    edited December 1969

    I don't think they'll make it worse. There are two cases:

    1) They have nothing installed in the wrong Data folder -- they create a broken symlink

    2) They have something installed in the wrong Data folder -- it still won't be in the right place

    In either case it doesn't *hurt* exactly, it just doesn't *help*.

    OTOH, the knowledge base is wrong and should be corrected.

    I think, but haven't tested, that *copying* the files under the wrong Data should be fine. When the DIM installer is updated it will apparently attempt to remove the old files and put them in the correct place. Most copy/move operations are overwrite so I don't think there'd be an error for them already existing in the correct location and the updater would be "happy" to remove them from the previous.

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