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Fixing Poke Through (Genesis)
Posted: 05 September 2013 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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If the character was dressed and posed in DS with smoothing, will there be any poke-through in Carrara 8.5?

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Posted: 05 September 2013 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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nakamuram002 - 05 September 2013 02:59 PM

If the character was dressed and posed in DS with smoothing, will there be any poke-through in Carrara 8.5?

I would answer, but I don’t know. Never brought anything into Carrara 8.5 from DS yet. According to the promos, it should work - just fine - no poke through.

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Posted: 05 September 2013 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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thoromyr - 05 September 2013 11:56 AM
thoromyr - 05 September 2013 11:31 AM

I’ll give the magnets a shot and report back. It is, IMO, not as good as being able to directly tweak the mesh but it has its points.

Well, it’ll take a few hours for the render to complete and with C8.5 and genesis you really don’t know until rendered what it’ll look like (apparent poke through in assembly room often disappears in render), but the magnet was an easy fix (albeit less precise than I’d like).

Thanks for the reminder about magnets!

You’re very welcome. smile

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Posted: 06 September 2013 01:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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thank you,, I think,, you guys really like Carrara ^^;
I decide not to complain about Carrara 8.5 ,,,because of yours,,,
(but never stop to complain about DAZ^^;)

I like your attitude,,, really.( I secretly call Datanbank as missionary of Carrara,,, ^^)

then,, nakamuramu002 I think, it willt happen.
I asked the way to remove poke through,
about the scene which I have saved in ds with smooth modifier(not sub D smoothing means).

because some products for triax figure actually need smooth modifier (not sub D smoothing means) .
then must need to use them when render in ds.

so that if it can not work,, may need some tweaking in Carrara.
then OK,, I must learn magnets way more.

 

 

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Posted: 06 September 2013 04:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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With respect to genesis and apparent poke through that isn’t there I wanted to provide an example for those that might not have seen it. I’ve attached a snap from the assembly room showing what looks fairly bad. However, when rendered it simply isn’t an issue as shown by the second snap. No magnets or mesh editing used to correct the matter.

For what its worth, I’ve attached the (I think) final image. Nothing in particular in mind for this image, just having fun with genesis. The one on the left is Sadie with a little troll and I think a few other things, textured for the troll and posed for gorilla. On the the right is M5 Heroic with a good bit of Mavka and a smidgen of rhino. Thanks to the woodland environ kit, this was quick to setup and quick to render.

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Screen_Shot_2013-09-05_at_4.55_.46_PM_.pngScreen_Shot_2013-09-06_at_5.46_.37_AM_.pngEastMeetsWest.jpg
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Posted: 09 September 2013 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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I’m getting unacceptable poke through in C8.5 using Dawn.  I fit the clothes and posed Dawn using DS4.6, saved the scene as a .duf, then imported it into C8.5.  These results are awful, when you consider that a DS4.6 scene can be exported to Blender using mcjTeleblender, without ANY poke through.  I’m returning C8.5.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 05:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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nakamuram002 - 09 September 2013 10:09 PM

I’m getting unacceptable poke through in C8.5 using Dawn.  I fit the clothes and posed Dawn using DS4.6, saved the scene as a .duf, then imported it into C8.5.  These results are awful, when you consider that a DS4.6 scene can be exported to Blender using mcjTeleblender, without ANY poke through.  I’m returning C8.5.

Return or keep is up to you, but why go through ds when dawn works fine directly in c8.5? I haven’t used dawn much, but didn’t see any poke through in what I have done.

Not to mention judging Carrara based on its handling of someone else’s figure seems a bit odd… If you have problems with dawn in Carrara you might want to reach out to the folks who made the figure and/or clothing….

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Posted: 10 September 2013 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Nakamuram,

You could try refitting the clothing in Carrara. In the general tab (I think. I’m not in front of a computer.) you’ll see a pull down menu that says fit to. It probably says “Dawn” right now. Select none. Go back and select Dawn again. It should refit the clothing. That usually helps. I agree with the previous poster. Just build your characters in Carrara. Why do it twice.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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If you are using the collision modifier (“apply smoothing modifier”) in DS, you are transferring that as an OBJ to Blender using mjcTeleblender…with the active collision modifier changes “baked” into the OBJ (by turning on “Interactive updates”).  It is no longer rigged in Blender, it is just an OBJ, as are all of the clothes.

When you open a DUF in Carrara, it is all still rigged, but Carrara does not have an active collision modifier. (my vote for #1 feature in C9 smile )

To compare apples to apples, you would export the OBJ from DS, saving the collision modifier results and import into Carrara….but again, then you lose the rigging, and obility to pose, as you would in Blender.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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DAZ Studio has a function called “Collision and Smoothing” and this is not the same as Smoothing. DAZ Studio also has a function called a push modifier. Neither of these exist, yet, in Carrara. Further neither works in the DSON importer for Poser.

Collision and Smoothing was designed to allow clothing to work with more extreme shapes, but it grew beyond that and, unfortunately, in some cases, was used as a substitute for good weight-mapping practices. This makes some Genesis clothing work better than others in Carrara.

Since the original vision for use of Collision and Smoothing was for minor things on extreme shapes, it was decided that Carrara had sufficient tools for fixing minor poke through. (Magnets being one, Modeling on posed figures being another, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXZvs716Ov8) .
Given the difference between the vision for Collision and Smoothing and actual use, that decision is being revisited for Carrara’s future. smile Note, I can not guarantee on what the eventual decision will be, or if it is even possible to make it work in Carrara, but it is on the list for discussion.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Woohoo!  That is very good to hear! (imo)  Thanks for the feedback

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Posted: 10 September 2013 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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3doutlaw - 10 September 2013 09:30 AM

Woohoo!  That is very good to hear! (imo)  Thanks for the feedback

Not yet it isn’t. smile The discussion hasn’t gotten that far. LOL.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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BrianP21361 - 10 September 2013 05:36 AM

Nakamuram,

You could try refitting the clothing in Carrara. In the general tab (I think. I’m not in front of a computer.) you’ll see a pull down menu that says fit to. It probably says “Dawn” right now. Select none. Go back and select Dawn again. It should refit the clothing. That usually helps. I agree with the previous poster. Just build your characters in Carrara. Why do it twice.

I think it is much easier to pose human characters in DS, especially when dealing with the fingers.  Also, I thought that dressing and posing in DS might be a solution for C8.5 poke through (see earlier posts in this thread).

If I want to deal with poke through (which I don’t), I’ll use Poser.  I am returning C8.5 and will wait for C9, which may be a while as things move slowly in the Carrara world.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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nakamuram002 - 10 September 2013 10:17 AM

I think it is much easier to pose human characters in DS, especially when dealing with the fingers.  Also, I thought that dressing and posing in DS might be a solution for C8.5 poke through (see earlier posts in this thread).  If I want to deal with poke through (which I don’t), I’ll use Poser.  I am returning C8.5 and will wait for C9.

I will point out that the people over at that other store did state that figure does not work in Carrara 8.5 correctly and they will be producing an update.

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Posted: 10 September 2013 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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nakamuram002 - 10 September 2013 10:17 AM
BrianP21361 - 10 September 2013 05:36 AM

Nakamuram,

You could try refitting the clothing in Carrara. In the general tab (I think. I’m not in front of a computer.) you’ll see a pull down menu that says fit to. It probably says “Dawn” right now. Select none. Go back and select Dawn again. It should refit the clothing. That usually helps. I agree with the previous poster. Just build your characters in Carrara. Why do it twice.

I think it is much easier to pose human characters in DS, especially when dealing with the fingers.  Also, I thought that dressing and posing in DS might be a solution for C8.5 poke through (see earlier posts in this thread).

If I want to deal with poke through (which I don’t), I’ll use Poser.  I am returning C8.5 and will wait for C9, which may be a while as things move slowly in the Carrara world.

Hey, totally your call! But I started this thread about *fixing* poke through. Because it has always been a problem, but my normal methods (editing the mesh/creating morphs) don’t work with genesis content.

I don’t use DS, nor do I use Poser. But given some of the products for them it appears they *also* suffer from poke through. It depends on the figure, the clothing and the pose. AFAICT the only way to 100% avoid poke through with clothing is to paint it onto the mesh. I would think that surface normals could be used to programmatically ensure that the clothing is always outside of the figure, but that would not appear to be an actual solution in use.

So, for the foreseeable future, poke through is reasonably expected to be a problem in some situations.

It is also interesting that apparently my suggestion of approaching the third party vendor was spot-on and that they have identified an issue and are working to update their products.

But I am in no way trying to assert that you should be using Carrara. I detest both Poser and DS interfaces—and there are users who prefer either of those to Carrara. Whether its the interface, the company behind the software, or something else, people have their own reasons for their own preferences. Stick with what you like.

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