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WAYYY OT: Curiosity Strikes
Posted: 25 June 2012 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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EClark1849 - 25 June 2012 09:43 AM

Frankly, I think you’re over thinking it a bit, but let me just say that I don’t think anyone should be hitting anyone either. That said, I know the “real” world doesn’t work like that.
.

not even in defense?? i am a Christian, but never really got the whole “turn the other cheek” deal. i firmly believe you let someone get away with something, they will do it again. I don’t condone violence, but I also don’t condone people doing bad things and getting away with them.

This reminds me of a time I went to the local pub. There was a guy standing outside bleeding profusely from the head. I had to ask what happened. His girlfriend cut his ear off with a broken beer bottle. Why? She thought he was looking at another woman. So here was a guy holding his ear in one hand, and holding a towel to the side of his head where his ear used to be, standing outside the pub. Where was she? Inside laughing and drinking with her friends like nothing had happened. No joke, she cut his ear off with a broken bottle.

based solely on those circumstances, I’d have taken a bottle right back at her, what a dysfunctional whack job! Even if he had looked at another woman, it’s not grounds to use a broken bottle, geez!!

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Posted: 25 June 2012 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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EClark1849 - 25 June 2012 08:40 AM

So that said, I have a question about when is it okay for a man to strike a woman?

Same as when it’s ok for a man to hit another man: when there’s really no other choice.

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Posted: 25 June 2012 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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LycanthropeX - 25 June 2012 11:40 AM

This reminds me of a time I went to the local pub. There was a guy standing outside bleeding profusely from the head. I had to ask what happened. His girlfriend cut his ear off with a broken beer bottle. Why? She thought he was looking at another woman. So here was a guy holding his ear in one hand, and holding a towel to the side of his head where his ear used to be, standing outside the pub. Where was she? Inside laughing and drinking with her friends like nothing had happened. No joke, she cut his ear off with a broken bottle.

In that situation someone should have called the police so he could press charges and have her arrested.  She should definitely pay the price for assault if that applies and battery for sure… and this is the bare minimum.  Depends on the circumstances that lead up to her cutting his ear off, but it could also be attempted murder since his ear and jugular are in such close proximity.  What exactly was she going for?  The jugular, but missed and got his ear?  Lots of details are need to know for sure, but she should have gone to jail.

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Posted: 25 June 2012 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Ho-boy.  As a self-defense instructor I think I’ll get involved here.


#1 rule:  ALWAYS know the laws about retreat before self-defense in the area where you are.
#2 rule:  ALWAYS know your surroundings and possible issues involved.
#3 rule:  During combat, someone is going to get hurt.


Now, on to the question (reference #1):  usually the law does not differentiate between the genders in self-defense situations… however, judges and juries DO.  Also, any training that one has WILL be taken into account.  The higher level training one has, the more capable of “avoidance” one is expected to be.  If one is a “certified expert”  (black belt, “master”, instructor, etc) then one is expected to “avoid” more than “reasonable” injury to one’s opponent.


On to female assaulting male (#1):  The law states that the amount of allowable force is proportional to the personal danger involved.  So, the amount of allowable force for a knife is less than for a gun.  With a gun, gender is usually mitigated as “strength” is not a factor.  With a knife, the size differential will immediately become an issue.  With other weaponry (baseball bat, golf club, rolling pin, etc) it is a crap shoot.


Now, removing the legal argument.  Should a man strike a woman?  Any assailant is fair game for hitting.  If someone has decided that they wish to do you harm, then their age/gender/infirmary make no difference.  I teach that one is only to use that force necessary to resolve the situation.  In other words, if one of my advanced students is being assaulted with a knife, I don’t expect them to use lethal force.  They have been trained to disarm such an opponent.  A gun changes the situation, however, once the assailant is disarmed aggression is to end.  On the other paw, if an untrained person is attacked, then they need to use whatever force within their means to handle the situation.


Would I personally strike a woman?  Not if I could help it.  There are other, more effective ways to physically control a woman.  The female skeletal structure provides for many non-percussive methodologies of restraint.


Kendall

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Posted: 25 June 2012 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I’ll summarize the TL;DR for the impatient.

Kendall Sears - 25 June 2012 12:27 PM

#1 rule:  ALWAYS know the laws about retreat before self-defense in the area where you are.
#2 rule:  ALWAYS know your surroundings and possible issues involved.
#3 rule:  During combat, someone is going to get hurt.

..one is only to use that force necessary to resolve the situation.

+1. This. Like. Retweet. etc

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Posted: 25 June 2012 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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In twenty five words or less:  “Is it ever OK to hit a woman.”  answer: “Yes.”  ohh 


Now, after reading all the pontificating and legal flim-flaming above and I’m sure still to come, here’s my reasoning. 


Except perhaps for the speed of light and the total energy in the Universe, absolutes don’t exist.  And especially not in the affairs of man!  So, addressing the question “is it ever OK to hit a woman?”.  The answer has to be “yes”.  However, the real question (and as usual the devil is in the details) is “When is it OK to hit a woman?” 

I leave you to continue the petty bickering. cheese

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Posted: 25 June 2012 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Skiriki - 25 June 2012 10:52 AM
EClark1849 - 25 June 2012 09:43 AM

Frankly, I think you’re over thinking it a bit, but let me just say that I don’t think anyone should be hitting anyone either. That said, I know the “real” world doesn’t work like that.

No, I am not overthinking.


No, you are not.  If you look at it from the point of view that you’ve had time to sit there and put all this together.


But seriously, anyone coming at you, man or woman, do you really take all this into consideration BEFORE you react?


For the record, I don’t hit women.  Though my wife insists I did slap her once for angering me, I swear I do not remember doing so.  And considering how she’s gotten on my nerves before and since I find it hard to believe it’s only been the once.  But I have no desire to strike her no matter what she does.  If she came at me with a knife, I’d run.  And I’ve told my sons the same thing.  If their sister hits them, I inform them you do not hit her back.  They think it’s highly unfair but dem’s da rules.  And guess what?  Today my daughter would not tolerate a man that strikes her.  Good to hear.


I grew up in a home where beating a woman wasn’t unusual.  One day I remember in the middle of one of those beatings I took my limp noodle of an arm and hit the man.  He looked at me enraged.  My mother told me to stay back and he continued to beat her.


There was years of this abuse and I don’t know what happened but one day he took me aside and he told me he’d never put his hands on my mother again.  And he never did.  She’d throw furniture, punch him, slap him and he never struck back.


I was a kid but my God I was so grateful.


I think that imbued in me the desire to pay it forward.  I don’t hit women.  But I have a limit.  Three times.  The first two are freebies.  The third time and you need to let them know it’s time to stop.  I wouldn’t take my fist and knock anyone out.  No.  But I’d definitely give a push and let them know that’s it.  I’ve given my sons the same rule and have even informed their girlfriends of this rule.  Tho my son’s latest says she’s hit him multiple times and he doesn’t do anything.  smile  Once again, good to hear.


Now if someone’s coming at you to do you seriously bodily harm, I have to wonder why it got that far in the first place.  I’d've gotten out of there before that.  Man or woman.  Especially woman.  But then, I’ve been shoved by women on the subway system and without hesitation, shoved them back because that’s my initial reaction.  No knockdowns, mind you, but a reminder that they put their hands on me.


So, I’m saying, all the philosophizing in the world won’t determine what you may want or need to do in any given situation.  The best we can hope for is never finding out.


Also, why is this topic a potential can of worms?  Are the wife beaters gonna come outta the closet?  wink


kmw

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Posted: 25 June 2012 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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kmw_ - 25 June 2012 02:32 PM

No, you are not.  If you look at it from the point of view that you’ve had time to sit there and put all this together.


But seriously, anyone coming at you, man or woman, do you really take all this into consideration BEFORE you react?

After a fashion, yes. It is called “being ready for something like that happening”, and it is a combination of upbringing, attitude, and training. True, no amount of training will prepare you for everything. It will, however, prepare you for many situations, more than just one. As will the idea “you can and are allowed to defend yourself”. Note that my default mode of defense is to get out—staying and fighting when you can turn tail and leave is usually the best choice; I do not have people who physically depend on me, so fighting is usually all about defending myself. Even in case of kids, it is better to collect them and leave, and fight only as a final resort.

Also, why is this topic a potential can of worms?  Are the wife beaters gonna come outta the closet?  wink

Yes. Hello, this is the internet. Today, I learned that someone I know (who lives in USA) has been a target of an extreme harassment campaign via e-mail (she is female, you can probably guess what she got threatened with), and her close female friend? Was just assaulted last night. In a manner which suggests that the friend was specifically targeted because of her connection. Which also resulted some people telling her that “she was asking for it by tackling a controversial topic, and drawing attention to herself”, except in nicer words so they won’t get banned from the forum right away. And I’d rather not have MRAs crawling out of woodwork and bawwwing about “not being allowed to beat women”.

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Posted: 25 June 2012 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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kmw_ - 25 June 2012 02:32 PM

...snip…


Now if someone’s coming at you to do you seriously bodily harm, I have to wonder why it got that far in the first place.


No sense in wondering.  There are people, men and women, who are just mean.  There are those who will attack for perceived slights that were imagined, or who will attack on the encouragement of their “peeps”, or under the influence of one chemical or another, on and on.


Environment doesn’t matter either.  People are attacked in parks, pizza delivery people are attacked upon reaching their destinations, flash mobs, gang initiations… no warnings—most times, no reasons.  No time to reason it out.


Always remember that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.  Only you are guaranteed to be where you are at… you are your only protector.


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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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This is a very sensitive subject to a lot of people. Please keep in mind the TOS when posting your replies.

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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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double post

new system has some bugs, eh?

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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Kendall Sears - 25 June 2012 02:59 PM
kmw_ - 25 June 2012 02:32 PM

...snip…


Now if someone’s coming at you to do you seriously bodily harm, I have to wonder why it got that far in the first place.


No sense in wondering.  There are people, men and women, who are just mean.  There are those who will attack for perceived slights that were imagined, or who will attack on the encouragement of their “peeps”, or under the influence of one chemical or another, on and on.


You are right of course.  Thinking back, there are a number of violent situations I’ve been in where there was no indication it was going to turn violent.


Once I had this brute of a guy turn ugly because I pulled alongside him to ask about a parking space.  For some reason, he thought that the fact he was double parked was all the information I needed.  When I politely asked why he’d think that he spit on my car and when I didn’t flinch he tried to jump out of his car.  Except my car was too close and he couldn’t get out.  I just stared at him.  Just stared.  When he realized he couldn’t get at me unless I let him, I just drove away.


So, yes, you’re right.


kmw

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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Skiriki - 25 June 2012 02:55 PM
kmw_ - 25 June 2012 02:32 PM

Also, why is this topic a potential can of worms?  Are the wife beaters gonna come outta the closet?  wink

Yes. Hello, this is the internet.

Heh.

I guess I still expect a level of civility.  Silly me.

kmw

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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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kmw_ - 25 June 2012 03:10 PM

Heh.

I guess I still expect a level of civility.  Silly me.

Yes. downer Just like Kendall pointed out—some people are just plain mean. This includes their conduct in the internet, not just physical space; if anything, the internet makes it easier. (I probably should point out that I’m no spring chicken, either, despite being a bit of a ditz especially when kittens are involved—that means I have had plenty of time to hone my thoughts and responses; I have a lifetime of experience behind me.)

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Posted: 25 June 2012 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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there is a certain element, male or female who will hit.
I myself have always been the sarcastic smartarse using verbal putdowns and often yelling, my mother and I had screaming matches,
she would break things, no-one hit anyone.
My father died when I was 10 but he was a yeller like me.
I get into a lot of trouble at work for yelling and talking back but would never physically touch anyone.
it is one of the reasons I am single, I am not “nice” to the boys as other women who are otherwise quite assertive and strong when it comes to other women are.
men who bash would hit someone like me so I avoid those types, I tend to pick up on certain clues as to whom they are, they often usually appear very friendly btw, not what you’d expect.
I have “seen it coming” in other people’s relationships but you cannot warn those who do not wish to hear.
funny thing is, I yell and it is over, I move on, others fester on stuff and never let you off the hook holding grudges.
I come across nicer online as I think as I type, in real life I tend to open my mouth first and believe me a lot comes out, I never shut up!
I am one of those obnoxious women who chatter continuously many men dislike.

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