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Bryce 8 or 9 ...?
Posted: 02 September 2013 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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@Dave - ah, I see. Well, there are/were several schemes for 3D TV. The one I had experienced at the TV Symposium many years ago displayed the picture for the left and right eye alternatively. You had to wear spectacles that were synchronised with the TV. Generally, working with polarised filters is a good means to separate the information for each eye.

@Dino Gramps - thank you for your kind words. I think the best thing with Bryce is its community. Where would I be without all the help I’ve got? Nowhere! I second David’s advice. Start with any 3D program and stick to it until you are fairly familiar with it. Once you hit the wall would be the time to consider investing money and time.

Art is not limited to artificially re-create realistic landscapes and scenes.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Thank you for your advice David and Horo. You both have said what I know to be true. The learning curve is bad enough juggling between Studio and Bryce, let alone adding a third program.

Horo - Your statement about art not being limited to artificially recreating realistic images is very true. It is a box that is very easy to fall into in many areas. A good example is the modern symphony orchestra. They are mainly relegated to playing so called masterpieces that are centuries old partially because that is what their limited audiences will pay to hear. At least that is their excuse. Don’t get me wrong, though, I love the music and have played in many semi-pro orchestras (string bass). I believe that the demand for such music is greater in Europe as the schools there give a better eduction in the classics (music and otherwise) then here in the US. However, my point is that there is much more to classical music than what you hear on the average symphony program.

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Posted: 03 September 2013 02:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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I took the update Carrara because you can switch from the standard version (my previous version) to the pro version for a reasonable price (the same price to go from 8.1 pro to 8.5 pro).

I just hope that Bryce will be updated one day. It’s to limited today. But I love it! You can still progress with a new render engin like Octane but the cost is high (199 € + graphics card).

At first, I think use Carrara to create backgrounds HDR (HDRShop) for Bryce. This is a fake HDR but it works well.

You can find my first attempt here (8000x4000) - http://gabrielm1968.deviantart.com/art/Endor-hdr-prob-393513246 .
I use it for this picture : http://gabrielm1968.deviantart.com/art/Star-Wars-Lovers-395394326

I think Rashad’s assessment of Bryce and Carrara is true on many points (Trees, instances, 64b, displacement, SSS). On some point I find Bryce better than Carrara (terrain, texture editor, interface, community and tutorial).

So, even if I slide slowly to Carrara, Bryce is not dead (not yet).

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Posted: 03 September 2013 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Dino Gramps - 02 September 2013 09:01 AM

Rashad’s assessment of Bryce spun me into a bit of a depression last night, especially since my entry for the Bryce summer contest blew up the day before and I could not recover. That was my fault for not saving frequently enough. However, upon rereading Rashad’s comments I agree with Horo, his comments are a bit biased.

My apologies, Dino. Extremely biased is a fair description. I’m an opinionated freak now and then, I don’t want to give the impression that I am not completely in love with Bryce. Bryce was and continues to be my primary rendering application. I defend Bryce at any pass where I feel it is unfairly described. I would happily use only Bryce for all my CG needs if it had the features. Like you, I have recently become frustrated with some projects that just aren’t going quite the way I wanted them to. There is no question there are things that could and should be better. I still prefer Bryce over Carrara. It makes me sad that I have to go to Carrara to get things I wish I could find in Bryce, like good plants.

Comparisons with Carrara deal more with the way I assume Daz might be thinking when it comes to making investments in Bryce development. Development is expensive in dollars and time, so it has to pay off. This is why I don’t like people bad mouthing the new features in Bryce 7 because doing so sends a message to Daz that the investment time and money spent on the last cycle was wasted and that subsequent investments in development might also turn out to be a waste. If Daz3d did not already own Carrara, they might have more of a reason to implement features such as SSS, caustics, and 64 bit support in Bryce. The idea would be that Bryce not Carrara would be the primary go to for a secondary render engine for Daz characters. But with Carrara in place, adding features such as SSS and caustics and 64 bit to Bryce will eventually put Bryce on par with Carrara. For the price, why would anyone purchase Carrara if Bryce offers the same features for much cheaper? My fear is that as long as Carrara is around Bryce will not get many features it needs. Why re-invent the wheel especially if it costs money and eats away at the profits of your other applications?

Even without comparisons to Carrara, my reason for the negatives in the post was just to demonstrate the overall problem as I see it, which is that Bryce is lacking in “dedication.” Bryce currently isn’t dedicated enough feature-wise by today’s standards to the purpose of landscape generation. The price tag for bringing to up to date feature-wise might be too great as described above. In such a case, what more can Daz3d actually do than what they have already done?

Dino Gramps - 02 September 2013 09:01 AM

What Bryce has that Carrara lacks is David and Horo.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’ve had the good fortune of getting to know them roughly a decade ago over at a much smaller forum where we had lots of great intimate conversations. The fact that Horo and David are both wickedly intelligent and that they apply that intelligence to Bryce and helping the community is fantastic and unquantifiable.

If I had my way I would do implement Bryce 8 like such:

1. First would be 64 bit support. I don’t care if it takes a full year of code re-writes, without this change there is little future. Considering the age of Bryce code a year of constant work is not a bad estimate.
2. New Interface: I’d set aside no less than 3 months, a full quarter just to update the menus and palettes. Already we have run threads in these forums to generate ideas for improving the interface. And while the new interface cannot please everyone, it could make room for later advancement in features. Once we get a new updated and modern look and feel to the application, we could focus on other things.
3. SSS, Caustics. We all agree on their importance, no need to explain.
4. Cloud Primitives / Ocean Primitives   This requires a new Lab for Cumulus Primitives and Ocean Primitives. Editing options would include Bottom Flatness for clouds and wind for the Ocean Primitive. Unlike Carrara that is limited to only a few types of noise, Bryce’s excellent procedural generator could make clouds that easily outperform those of Carrara or Vue.
5. Native Hair/Grass. This is something so basic that it’s hard to imagine how we’ve gone this long without it.
6. New Render Engine: This could take a year on its own to develop with constant working. So many things could and should be faster rendering and fear of long renders hinders artistic risk taking.
7. Octane Exporter : Octane is built on procedurals just like Bryce. If there was any application out there that might be somehow “ideal” as a secondary render engine for Bryce Octane seems like the one since many materials could be sent over without any need for translations directly from the material lab.
8. Updated Atmosphere: New types of scattering, a new haze model that isn’t so horizon hugging. A scaling tool so that one could set visibility based on distances like in the real world.
9. A Carrara / Bryce bridge. This way you can create plants and other models in Carrara that are easily sent over the Bryce, and vi e versa. I would pay GOOOD money for a Carrara/ Bryce bridge.

10. If all that made its way into B8 and the application not have exploded I’d then want to start working on the animation tools and in the same train I’d look into native posing for Daz figures.

 

 

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Posted: 03 September 2013 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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I think it must be very complicated to maintain several applications with dissimilar code. Considering that Bryce, Hexagon and Carrara were created by different developers, its a wonder how any improvements can be made at all.

One feature in Bryce, which is the reason that I purchased it, is the ability to render 16 bit depth maps. This function is supposed to be in Carrara (there is a save option for it), but it is broken and has been broken since it was added. It unfortunately affects Carrara’s terrain editor as well, so you can’t get a 16 bit greyscale image out that way either.

 

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Posted: 04 September 2013 01:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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cdordoni - 03 September 2013 09:45 PM

I think it must be very complicated to maintain several applications with dissimilar code. Considering that Bryce, Hexagon and Carrara were created by different developers, its a wonder how any improvements can be made at all.

Carrara Hexagon and Bryce (and Poser) have crossed destinies… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrara_(software)

cdordoni - 03 September 2013 09:45 PM

One feature in Bryce, which is the reason that I purchased it, is the ability to render 16 bit depth maps. This function is supposed to be in Carrara (there is a save option for it), but it is broken and has been broken since it was added. It unfortunately affects Carrara’s terrain editor as well, so you can’t get a 16 bit greyscale image out that way either.

It’s creat terrain in Bryce and export in Carrara.

I will really love using brushes in gray scale for Bryce Terrain Editor. It should not be very complicated to do ?

Obviously, this is not the terrain editor to Vue or Geocontrol… But, Bryce is simple and effective for make Terrain (Fractal, image, DTE, filters, Brushes)...

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Posted: 11 September 2013 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Just a perspective of a noob CG hobbyist with more money than sense:

I never would have spent a cent at Daz were it not for the give-away of Studio.  Barrier to entry was too high for a new hobby, at the old prices. You have to get hooked first.

I never would have invested time (no regrets) in learning Bryce were it not for the activity, impressive renders, creativity, friendliness and passion displayed in the Bryce forums at Daz and elsewhere, but especially at Daz.  If Daz ignores Bryce entirely all of that will eventually go away.  Just look at the Hexagon forums. 

I never would have had the slightest interest in Carrara (vs a free tool like Blender) were it not for being drawn into the Daz eco-system by way of Studio, Bryce, and the Daz store.  Definitely not without experiencing some of the limitations of Bryce firsthand (e.g., broken instancing lab, 32 bit, etc.) as well as some of its strong points.  Won’t know whether I’ll regret purchasing Carrara 8.5 for a good while longer than 30 day return period.  My final opinion on Carrara will probably make little difference to whether or not I continue to buy from the Daz store, but in general the more I am a regular user of Carrara/Studio/Bryce instead of something else, the more likely I am to buy content from Daz.  Why?  Because the hottest forums on those applications are hosted through the Daz store. and I see Daz’s product promotions every time I log on.  If I am using some other products for CG, the less my attention will be on what Daz is selling, and the less I will buy.

For that reason the needs of the Bryce forum members should be and probably are of interest to Daz management.  For Bryce to remain useful to Daz, Bryce needs to remain interesting to old-timers and newcomers alike, to keep the community alive and the forums interesting.  But because the market is limited so must be the development effort.  Doubtful whether Bryce could successfully go open source given the head start of competitive open-source software already out there.  So the short term effort should be directed to fixing/enhancing functions that can easily be fixed, like the Studio bridge and hopefully the instancing lab (great idea but crashes constantly).  All of the things on the wishlists would be nice, but implementing most of the features will probably never be economically feasible so long as programmers have to be paid.

Not knowing much about these things, how hard would it be to develop a free SDK for Bryce similar to what Daz has for Studio?  That might keep the old-timers around developing new plug-ins, and draw in new developers, continually enriching the user experience without having to finance so much programming up front.

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Posted: 27 September 2013 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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What I would say is not that Bryce should be a plugin, but more like a specialized ‘lite’ version or Carrara.  The same for DAZ Studio.

DAZ would be like Carrara but with the focus on existing content rather than making new 3D models.  The “modeling” features would be disabled (and it could still be free).
Upgrade to Bryce and it would provide the landscape, atmosphere, water, and cloud settings.  You would get a slew or textures for rocks and plants and so on.
Finally, upgrading to Carrara would provide advanced modeling, rigging, and texture capabilities.

It would all be under the same engine so there wouldn’t be “does Bryce load Genesis 3 figures?” or “When will they update it to be compatible like the others?

But right now, I would settle for Mac compatibility.

 

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Posted: 04 October 2013 06:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Rashad Carter - 01 September 2013 08:56 PM

...
4. Carrara has an ocean primitive which can be animated. Bryce has nothing like that. In fact, I’d like to see someone even try to animate water in Bryce via the terrain editor, not just on a 2d plane. NOT GOOD!
...

Pressures on my time have kept me away from Bryce (and I was only ever a beginner with it anyway) but I figured out how to animate water with the terrain editor a few years back.  I didn’t refine it beyond making simple waves in this test scene just to prove to myself I could do it.  And I know it could never do proper fluid motions but the flowing waves/water you see here was remarkably simple to do and there are a lot of experienced Bryce animators who could take it so much further than me (and probably have already!)

http://youtu.be/ScX_utz41wE

I’ll post a guide in a separate thread in case it’s of use to anyone.  I think I did one in the old forum somewhere but it’d be better here.

Regards,
Steve.

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Posted: 05 October 2013 01:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Steve-L - 04 October 2013 06:09 AM
Rashad Carter - 01 September 2013 08:56 PM

...
4. Carrara has an ocean primitive which can be animated. Bryce has nothing like that. In fact, I’d like to see someone even try to animate water in Bryce via the terrain editor, not just on a 2d plane. NOT GOOD!
...

Pressures on my time have kept me away from Bryce (and I was only ever a beginner with it anyway) but I figured out how to animate water with the terrain editor a few years back.  I didn’t refine it beyond making simple waves in this test scene just to prove to myself I could do it.  And I know it could never do proper fluid motions but the flowing waves/water you see here was remarkably simple to do and there are a lot of experienced Bryce animators who could take it so much further than me (and probably have already!)

http://youtu.be/ScX_utz41wE

I’ll post a guide in a separate thread in case it’s of use to anyone.  I think I did one in the old forum somewhere but it’d be better here.

Regards,
Steve.

Yep, fantastic stuff, really really awesome!!!!!! Thanks for proving me wrong!!

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Posted: 07 October 2013 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Yes please. I would love to see Bryce Pro 7 upgraded to Bryce Pro 8 in 32-bit and 64-bit version availability. It shouldn’t be that hard to make. You already built a powerful program (The hard part is done). All it needs is an upgrade and making the product more user friendly and faster renders. I would buy it in a heart beat. wink

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Posted: 26 October 2013 12:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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It constantly pains me to see Bryce languish, ignored for years first by Corel and now by DAZ.  I want to see Bryce 8 Pro with ability to use all real and virtual CPU cores, multiple GPU cores from BOTH major manufacturers AMD and Nvidia, and an improved Bryce Lightning.

Or flat-out replace the renderer with one that is truly capable of high performance in massively parallel systems and networks.

Fix the weird looking trees.  Fix the importing/exporting issues.  It’s time to make Bryce 64-bit only.  HD meshing is now available and that’s going to require gobs of memory and an OS and application that can see all that memory.  Continuing to struggle with a 32 bit copy just permits the developers to keep thinking in the old ways of coding, and makes for an application that will always be less than it should be.

Allow me to put characters right into it from DS or Carrara.  Or bring my landscapes and abstracts from Bryce into either of those programs or back-and-forth to Hexagon.  If all this means Bryce becomes a plugin, then so be it; it is not an insult or a demeaning to become a plugin if that frees up the artist for creation like never before.  All I care is that you make Bryce work in ANY WAY THAT I MAY IMAGINE USING IT (and five more, just to be sure).

It’s time to take Bryce forward to the future, and the best way to do that is to revitalize and resurrect the innovative spirit and creative design and coding that Kai Krause and Metacreations did when they birthed it.  The world is watching and waiting, so do it right!

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Posted: 26 October 2013 03:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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I’ve been reading the thread here with interest and I’m usually only inclined to remain an observer (to which my post count will attest!), but it occurs to me that there is an elephant in the room that hasn’t been noticed yet. Usually there is one of three possible reasons why a company purchases another company’s software. One is that they intend to further develop it and market it for profit. The second is that they wish to obtain the intellectual property it contains for use in other products. The third is that they wish to reduce competition for products that they currently sell. I have no idea which is the case for any of DAZ’s portfolio, of course.

The four major pieces of software that DAZ has acquired, or developed and currently markets seem like a rather strange combination. I say strange because the last thing any company wants is to be in competition with itself. Their products should complement one another ideally, or at least be uniquely different in their purpose or use. And the latter must go beyond interface or workflow. In other words, they must be differentiated by what they do, not how, in my opinion. When we look at the DAZ products, it seems to me that there is simply too much overlap, with only DAZ Studio tending to be limited to a particular speciality, and even that is not completely distinct.

It does not surprise me at all that developement cycles are what they are for some of the DAZ applications. Four different render engines to maintain and develop? Three of four applications that can do modelling, only in different ways? And so on. It seems to me that Bryce has an identity crisis more than anything else. From a business perspective, I believe the question is simply this: “What is it that Bryce does or can do, that no other DAZ software can do?”. Not how, or how well, but what. And is that thing or those things valuable to the company’s market? If the software only does things that the other software does, what is the point? If it does it better, then pick one, use the best of all of them and produce a single solid product with a progressive development cycle. From a business perspective, that simply makes sense.

I know this won’t earn me any fans here, but I’m only stating what seems obvious to me. DAZ is a business, after all. Personally, I have no axes to grind. But, as the old saying goes, “be careful of what you wish for”. The solution to the lists of features wanted may be to roll Bryce and the others (two at least) into a single app. If it was your business, isn’t that what you would do?

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Posted: 26 October 2013 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Bobeagle77 - 07 October 2013 08:14 PM

Yes please. I would love to see Bryce Pro 7 upgraded to Bryce Pro 8 in 32-bit and 64-bit version availability. It shouldn’t be that hard to make. You already built a powerful program (The hard part is done). All it needs is an upgrade and making the product more user friendly and faster renders. I would buy it in a heart beat. wink

If it was really as simple as you seem to think it will be, don’t you think it would have been done by now.

And Bryce is very user friendly, you just have to play with it to find that out. Bryce is a really fun program to use.

Subtropic Pixel - 26 October 2013 12:58 AM

8snip*Or flat-out replace the renderer with one that is truly capable of high performance in massively parallel systems and networks.

The Bryce render engine was well ahead of it’s time, and still stands up well in todays world

Subtropic Pixel - 07 October 2013 08:14 PM

It’s time to make Bryce 64-bit only

Why, all the other 3d apps we use have 32bit and 64 bit versions (Carrara, DS, Poser etc.)

Subtropic Pixel - 07 October 2013 08:14 PM

Allow me to put characters right into it from DS or Carrara.

There is already a bridge from DS to Bryce.

Subtropic Pixel - 07 October 2013 08:14 PM

If all this means Bryce becomes a plugin, then so be it; it is not an insult or a demeaning to become a plugin

Would you like to argue with the established Bryce community on that point.

Say rather that DS is a plugin for Bryce lol. Can you imagine the outcry, although I usually do get laughs when I say that DS or Poser are only plugins to get content into Bryce.

Do remember that DS is the new kid on the block, compared to Bryce, Carrara and Poser. DAZ 3D started work on DS around the time when it did seriously look as though Poser was heading for a sudden demise.

 

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Posted: 26 October 2013 06:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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SixDs - 26 October 2013 03:47 AM

I know this won’t earn me any fans here, but I’m only stating what seems obvious to me.

Well, not exactly fans, but what you say makes sense - at least I asked myself several times why DAZ acquired Bryce from Corel, went to all the trouble to create a bridge to interface it with their own Studio just to acquire Carrara (and Hexagon) from Eovia a bit later.

Bobeagle77 - 07 October 2013 08:14 PM

Yes please. I would love to see Bryce Pro 7 upgraded to Bryce Pro 8 in 32-bit and 64-bit version availability. It shouldn’t be that hard to make.

It unfortunately is. DAZ 3D set out on the 6.3 to 7.0 dev cycle to do just that. It proved to be more elaborate as primarily anticipated and it would have run massively over budget.

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