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Bryce 8 or 9 ...?
Posted: 30 August 2013 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Sean Riesch - 30 August 2013 01:07 PM

  Actually I often use DS as a Bryce plug-in too, both to pose figures and for the content library, although I do also use it by itself. 
  When I say that, I don’t mean to demean either in any way by suggesting either as a plugin for the other though. 
  People who wouldn’t want to purchase one as a stand alone application because they prefer to use the other still might still find it useful as an addition to their favorite application.  Listing it as a plugin might make them look at it and consider it as an option without making them feel like they are switching or abandoning the other application.


No plug-in is always going to be demeaning,  as both are full blown programs and both are very capable at what they do best.

Partners is by far better, not add-on or even worse plug-in. Words are very powerful, and so any term which suggests that one is lesser than the other should always be avoided when one is trying to promote the virtues of something.

The programs can be used in conjunction with each other, as equal partners.

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Posted: 30 August 2013 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Three complementary but Standalone softwares… Bryce, Daz Studio and Hexagon as musketeers : “Un pour tous, tous pour un !”.

We need bridges in all directions ... For example, a Boolean modeling Bryce to Hexagon for conversion in object… or send directely an object from Hexagon to Bryce…

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Posted: 01 September 2013 03:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I fully agree: Bryce, DS and Hexagon as three musketeers. I tend to (sometimes) pose people or animals in DS, model items in Hexagon and then almost always render in Bryce, because of its landscape, DTE, Sky lab, etc. End, of course, because of the David and Horo, who teach us to use Bryce to get all the power!

My wishlist for Bryce 8 would include:
* a tree lab that lets you work on bended and knotty stems of trees and that allows hiding not only tree stem and leaves, but also branches separately
* useful instancing
* useful particle generator
* sub surface scattering
* of course: 64 bit

All of this has been said.
Selling Bryce as the companion stage making and rendering software for the posed figures of DS and the items made in Hexagon might be a good idea.

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Posted: 01 September 2013 08:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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I love Bryce, always will. But what’s love got to do with it?

On Bryce and DazStudio as lovers….
Lets be fair and give credit where it is due. The DS 3DLite render engine which is Render-Man compliant is nothing to scoff at. In its full version it is good enough for Hollywood studios with a solid place in their workflows proving it has professional potential. It is more modern than the Bryce engine and can be updated much more easily. There are many effects we are still hoping to have “added” to Bryce that are already present in 3d Lite just waiting to be unlocked by a programmer via a plug-in of some sort.

Marketing Bryce as a plug-in / additional render engine for DS will fail for several reasons:
1. Bryce currently still has no SSS, so humans will never look as good in Bryce as they will in DS. Remember that the only thing DS users care about is the way the humans look, the rest of the environment is much less important to them. And even when Bryce does eventually get SSS, it will be horribly slow rendering like most every other advanced effect in Bryce.

2. Bryce has no native hair. As anyone knows, it is super slow rendering transmapping, so close-ups of females with beautiful flowing hair are not practical. If you use Light Domes, IBL, or TA and attempt to render a close-up with lots of hair it will take weeks to render, literally. If Bryce had its own native hair support it would make things so much better. The mesh hair now available in DS makes this hurdle much less difficult to overcome. Thank God for Look at My hair and Garabaldi. I can even imagine using this as a tool for grass on landscapes in DS. Lack of hair in Bryce means lack of grass in Bryce. A landscaper that can’t produce grass? Are you kidding?


On Bryce and Carrara as lovers…

Carrara is everything Bryce should have been and would have been had it been treated with the right kind of love from the start. Most of the features we ask for in Bryce are already present in Carrara. We just seem to be waiting for the tools to be introduced in a “Bryce-like” manner.

Bryce is far behind Carrara, there is no comparison I’m sad to say. Here are a few examples of the failings:
1. Atmospheres: The word on the street is that Bryce has better atmospherics than Carrara. This is not true. In the first place, Carrara has longitudinal/latitudinal sun controls that also respond to the time of year and the actual day and time. So in Carrara, if you know the latitude and longitude of a location and you know the day and time, you can input those values and Carrara will know at which altitude and azimuth to place the sun. In Bryce the best we can do is guess work, manually guestimating where the sun should be for a given time of year and time of day. Cute, but not very professional. Further, Carrara has a cumulus cloud primitive that allows separate controls for the tops and bottoms of clouds. While David has had some success creating cloud slabs with dynamic undersides, in truth the underside should be flat and the top side should be dynamic. The problem is that in Bryce the flat side is always too flat. We need a real cumulus cloud primitive in Bryce. Just a side note, Vue’s clouds also have the right kid of behavior on the underside and top side. Bryce is the only one without it. NOT GOOD!

2. Bryce has trees, but they are spawned on metaballs. This alone makes them almost completely useless for any real work. Carrara has a much more robust tree generator producing plants that actually look like real trees from most viewing angles. But less obvious is the lower polygon footprint of Carrara trees, and the fact that one needs not rely on transmapping since you can import any geometry you want into Carrara to use as leaves. Bryce doesnt allow you to use your own leaf meshes so we resort to super slow transmapping. NOT GOOD!

3. Bryce has instancing, but it is very primitive and not fully mature. Carrara’s way is much better. Surprise surprise. NOT GOOD!

4. Carrara has an ocean primitive which can be animated. Bryce has nothing like that. In fact, I’d like to see someone even try to animate water in Bryce via the terrain editor, not just on a 2d plane. NOT GOOD!

5. Carrara has caustics. Bryce doesnt have it.

6. Carrara has reliable displacement even if it is less useful than the excellent displacement in Daz Studio. Bryce has it but it is not mature enough to be reliable yet. Basically useless. NOT GOOD!

7. Carrara has actual industry standard animation tools. Bryce’s animation tools are okay, but due to the slow rendering most of its abilities are not even tested. It’s just not practical to render animations in Bryce. EXTREMELY NOT GOOD!

8. Carrara has a much more robust Lighting model. Though TA has come a long way, it still has too much difficulty with indoor scenes, which shouldn’t be any more challenging for the engine than outdoor renders, but there you have it. Carrara’s GI is fast rendering and beautiful to look at most times both indoor and out.
On this same note, lets consider that in Bryce using soft shadows results in a MAJOR render time hit. In Carrara this is not the case. So in Bryce to get a good look from an IBL one needs to use hundreds of light samples to produce a natural softening of the light output with fewer harsh shadows, yet harsh shadows still prevail in most cases. But in Carrara as Howie’s scenes demonstrate, domes made of fewer lights but with each light casting soft shadows looks really great. Even a dome of 10 lights with soft shadows renders slower than a dome of 2000 lights with hard shadows in Bryce. If soft shadows were faster I’d use them a lot more often. SUPER EXTREMELY NOT GOOD!

So in the final sum of my post all I can say is that until Bryce actually gains an advantage over the other applications in some way, there is little developmental future to be seen with the application. If it can’t make landscapes as well as Carrara then why bother using Bryce for landscapes? If Daz Studio is much better at humans than Bryce, then why not stick with Daz Studio?

The final nail in the coffin is that Bryce is the slowest of the three rendering applications offered at Daz3d. This is due to the fact that Bryce is a full brute force ray tracer but ray-tracing is not the only way to render a scene. But Bryce doesn’t have any other tricks so it does everything in the most complicated manner making it slow as all heck. All render engines get old eventually, and Bryce’s is ancient.

Bryce’s only hope, is to innovate. It needs to come up with a tool or two that are new to the industry yet extremely useful. But innovation takes research, and research is what Bryce will never get with multiple year lags between development cycles. What Bryce needs is to be an only child of loving parents so it can get the attention it deserves. But that will never happen.

Until Bryce gets better than the other applications at something, it will never be taken seriously. Until people have a compelling need to come to Bryce because it has features and tools not found elsewhere, they never will come.

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Posted: 01 September 2013 11:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Want to render animation in 360 degree panorama rendering. useful for art effects
Not finding any option.

Have to manually render each frame.
Very tiresome

Any hope in near future !!!

cool smile

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Posted: 02 September 2013 01:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Unfortunately, I think Rashad is right on all points ...

David had convinced me yet ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftw9GgMhafs

I buy the update Carrara but it does not want to work today (problem with serial number) ...

Perhaps a plug-in to make a Bryce Skin for Carrara could satifaire the Bryce Addict ... wink

You think that you use Bryce but in reality it’s Carrara… Is that possible?

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Posted: 02 September 2013 04:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Rashad I am playing with Carrara,  well I was till it turned into a pumpkin at midnight last night,  but I still prefer the way some things work in Bryce, and in particular the terrain generator.  I am finding the Carrara one is very tricky,  it just doesn’t seem to respond in the same way

And I don’t like the fact that so far I see no way to hide the animation stuff, which is something I don’t need.  The other day I managed to hit a wrong button somehow and found myself rendering an avi sequence instead of one render.

Also something else that Carrara doesn’t appear to have is the “Colour perspective” control which is such fun to use.  I couldn’t have got my Monochrome out of Carrara in the same way as I could do it in Bryce, (Still only a WIP)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/index.php?&ACT=50&fid=38&aid=92871_XWEX9TwOiynkK2vw0mE9&board_id=1

So far, although Carrara will be another tool in the box I don’t see it replacing my beloved Bryce.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 05:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Two things which are getting more popular nowadays are 3D printing and 3D telly… these things are where the bulk of innovation will be over the next decade.

If Bryce could be an innovator in rendering 3D (two cameras rendering the same scene to make the final 3D image as per 3D telly) animations, or could be an innovator in preparing models/scenes for 3D printing, it may help.

Although I wouldn’t be particularly interested in either, if it brought new people and new development to Bryce I doubt there’d be any complaints.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I think Rashad’s assessment of Bryce and Carrara is a bit biased. One would expect a list of pros and cons in a comparison. But we take it as Rashad’s view in a free world.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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TheSavage64 - 02 September 2013 05:33 AM

If Bryce could be an innovator in rendering 3D (two cameras rendering the same scene to make the final 3D image as per 3D telly) animations, or could be an innovator in preparing models/scenes for 3D printing, it may help

Bryce can do that already. Just put an appropriate lens in front of the camera. Hint: True 3D Rendering.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 06:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Horo - 02 September 2013 05:43 AM

[Bryce can do that already. Just put an appropriate lens in front of the camera. Hint: True 3D Rendering.

Yes, of course Horo and I’m not dismissing nor underestimating the power or versatility of your product, but 3D telly no longer uses the colour separation. it uses poralisation (as I understand it).
But I am talking about innovation into new ways to approach things just as you did when you developed your lens. But for 3DTV animation, I think it would need more than a lens, it’s a whole system of delivering moving 3D pictures as broadcastable files.

A professional quality system within Bryce would certainly give it a USP amongst the non professional 3D artists and animators and that renewed interest would put Bryce in it’s rightful place as a maveric leader not an old curiosity. smile

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Posted: 02 September 2013 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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TheSavage64 - 02 September 2013 05:33 AM

Two things which are getting more popular nowadays are 3D printing and 3D telly… these things are where the bulk of innovation will be over the next decade.

If Bryce could be an innovator in rendering 3D (two cameras rendering the same scene to make the final 3D image as per 3D telly) animations, or could be an innovator in preparing models/scenes for 3D printing, it may help.

Although I wouldn’t be particularly interested in either, if it brought new people and new development to Bryce I doubt there’d be any complaints.

Your reference to 3D printing reminded me of this.  I think that 3D printing for the masses has a way to go yet.  cool smirk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23727229

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Posted: 02 September 2013 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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chohole - 02 September 2013 07:11 AM

Your reference to 3D printing reminded me of this.  I think that 3D printing for the masses has a way to go yet.  cool smirk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23727229

Indeed, which is why there is massive room for innovation in this field.
And most of the problems stem from the 3D software not preparing the models correctly. :D

But I wouldn’t want to turn Bryce into something that It’s not… I’d only want it if it rejuvinated the interest and investment into Bryce. smile

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Posted: 02 September 2013 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Rashad’s assessment of Bryce spun me into a bit of a depression last night, especially since my entry for the Bryce summer contest blew up the day before and I could not recover. That was my fault for not saving frequently enough. However, upon rereading Rashad’s comments I agree with Horo, his comments are a bit biased.

What Bryce has that Carrara lacks is David and Horo. If not for their tutorials and help on these forums, my third go at learning Bryce would have ended as my first two, with Bryce being uninstalled from my computer. My very primitive knowledge of Bryce has brought me more pleasure than Studio or Carrara because I can more easily create what I want in Bryce. Obviously, I am not much interested in rendering people.

All that being said, my dilemma over the next week or so is whether or not to get Carrara while it is on sale. Eighty-five dollars is a lot of money for me, and I feel my time would be better spent learning Bryce well, but I have some time and money invested in Carrara 7. So I will ponder.

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Posted: 02 September 2013 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Dino Gramps - 02 September 2013 09:01 AM

Rashad’s assessment of Bryce spun me into a bit of a depression last night, especially since my entry for the Bryce summer contest blew up the day before and I could not recover. That was my fault for not saving frequently enough. However, upon rereading Rashad’s comments I agree with Horo, his comments are a bit biased.

What Bryce has that Carrara lacks is David and Horo. If not for their tutorials and help on these forums, my third go at learning Bryce would have ended as my first two, with Bryce being uninstalled from my computer. My very primitive knowledge of Bryce has brought me more pleasure than Studio or Carrara because I can more easily create what I want in Bryce. Obviously, I am not much interested in rendering people.

All that being said, my dilemma over the next week or so is whether or not to get Carrara while it is on sale. Eighty-five dollars is a lot of money for me, and I feel my time would be better spent learning Bryce well, but I have some time and money invested in Carrara 7. So I will ponder.

Thank you for your kind words, my recommendation is that if you feel 85 dollars is a lot of money, then save it, what you learn in Bryce - or indeed any other render engine you care to name, is largely transferable.  There are many things common between all these platforms and the best thing to learn with is the tool you are most comfortable with using.  If while learning you try to swap between applications before your are familiar with the key concepts involved, you will hinder your progress and become frustrated.  Don’t over complicate matters for yourself, pick something, stick with that for 12 months and then see where you are.  If you do choose Carrara, which I’m not saying you shouldn’t, likewise stick with that.  The first steps are always the most difficult.

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