Good heavens somebody has been poking around in the bug forum !

RedSquareRedSquare Posts: 0
edited June 2012 in Hexagon Discussion

I have been sorting out one of my PC's and logged onto the Bug reporting site. and found to my amazment that somebody had made an entry against one of my bug reports acknowledging if I'm correct, that it is a bug. Dated yesterday!!! Ooo!

Post edited by RedSquare on

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  • DAZ_bfurnerDAZ_bfurner Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    RedSquare said:
    I have been sorting out one of my PC's and logged onto the Bug reporting site. and found to my amazment that somebody had made an entry against one of my bug reports acknowledging if I'm correct, that it is a bug. Dated yesterday!!! Ooo!

    The QA team is simply making some adjustments to bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged. Don't read any more into what you are seeing. Sorry.

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    RedSquare said:
    I have been sorting out one of my PC's and logged onto the Bug reporting site. and found to my amazment that somebody had made an entry against one of my bug reports acknowledging if I'm correct, that it is a bug. Dated yesterday!!! Ooo!

    The QA team is simply making some adjustments to bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged. Don't read any more into what you are seeing. Sorry.

    What does DAZ believe is the difference between "confirmed" and "acknowledged?

    TS

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    I am still awaiting what the plans are for Hexagon. DAZ_bfurner put forward:-

    I hope in the next several weeks I'll be able to give you more input on what the plans are for Hexagon. I don't think you all will be disappointed.

    That statement made here:- http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=179633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
    It is now over 6 months later, still nothing!!

  • RaytownmikeRaytownmike Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    I am still awaiting what the plans are for Hexagon. DAZ_bfurner put forward:-
    I hope in the next several weeks I'll be able to give you more input on what the plans are for Hexagon. I don't think you all will be disappointed.

    That statement made here:- http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=179633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
    It is now over 6 months later, still nothing!!

    Even hints of future correspondence are fair game, I think. All user are looking to software developers for continued development to software for the sake of new tools as well as a sure future of those tools that they are using everyday.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,977
    edited December 1969

    Sorry for any confusion.

    It has been procedure to mark feature requests as well as bugs we have been able to replicate as confirmed. It was determined that this makes it more difficult to separate the bugs from the feature requests when it comes time to prioritize bugs for the developers to fix.

    Feature requests are usually looked at when we are about to start a new development cycle and the Project Manager sits down with the developers to discuss new features for the next version of the software. Placing them as acknowledged gets them out of the way, until they are needed and nicely consolidates them for this discussion.

    So just because your feature request got moved, that does not mean there will be any work done on them at this time and shouldn't be cause for speculation. :)

    Again, sorry for the confusion.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited June 2012

    Feature requests are usually looked at when we are about to start a new development cycle and the Project Manager sits down with the developers to discuss new features for the next version of the software. Placing them as acknowledged gets them out of the way, until they are needed and nicely consolidates them for this discussion.

    It was stated above by DAZ_bfurner "The QA team is simply making some adjustments to bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged."

    Putting the 2 statement above together, means confirmed bugs are now being classified as feature requests.

    .

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 106
    edited December 1969

    Feature requests are usually looked at when we are about to start a new development cycle and the Project Manager sits down with the developers to discuss new features for the next version of the software. Placing them as acknowledged gets them out of the way, until they are needed and nicely consolidates them for this discussion.

    It was stated above by DAZ_bfurner "The QA team is simply making some adjustments to bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged."

    Putting the 2 statement above together, means confirmed bugs are now being classified as feature requests.

    .

    Other way around. Confirmed bugs are being separated from Feature requests.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    Other way around. Confirmed bugs are being separated from Feature requests.

    They are being separated yes, but it still shows bugs as now being treated as feature requests:-

    "bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged"

    "Feature requests..............Placing them as acknowledged gets them out of the way"


    Normally to get "bugs out of the way" you would fix them, not simply re-classify them.


    .

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 1,977
    edited December 1969

    Other way around. Confirmed bugs are being separated from Feature requests.

    They are being separated yes, but it still shows bugs as now being treated as feature requests:-

    "bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged"

    "Feature requests..............Placing them as acknowledged gets them out of the way"


    Normally to get "bugs out of the way" you would fix them, not simply re-classify them.


    .

    Bugs are not being changed to acknowledged, Feature Requests were moved to Acknowledged. Bugs that can be replicated, are confirmed, and prioritized for fixes. Bugs that can not be replicated are placed in feedback so we can get more information on them.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    Bugs are not being changed to acknowledged,

    So you are stating DAZ_bfurner is incorrect

    The QA team is simply making some adjustments to bugs, changing from confirmed to acknowledged.

    Sound like all the confusion you mention is actually within the DAZ staff.

    .

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DaRkWyNdE said:
    What does DAZ believe is the difference between "confirmed" and "acknowledged?


    Well, "confirmed" means they admit it's a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed, while "acknowledged" means they admit it's a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed.

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    DaRkWyNdE said:
    What does DAZ believe is the difference between "confirmed" and "acknowledged?


    Well, "confirmed" means they admit it's a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed, while "acknowledged" means they admit it's a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed.

    I'll go along with that. This and the above posts gives me all the answers I need.

    DaRkWyNdE

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited July 2012

    I am still awaiting what the plans are for Hexagon. DAZ_bfurner put forward:-
    I hope in the next several weeks I'll be able to give you more input on what the plans are for Hexagon. I don't think you all will be disappointed.

    That statement made here:- http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=179633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
    It is now over 6 months later, still nothing!!


    Well...hmmm...let's see....plans for Hexagon....gee, I can't imagine what they might....


    THEY GAVE IT AWAY FOR FREE !!!! Did you guys miss that??


    It has become solely a tool to generate content sales. That's it. Why would they have even the slightest incentive to invest another penny in costly development of software that is only useful to get people to buy content??? As long as people see a cool package of free software, and it works reasonably well, it's doing its job. Period.


    And do the people who it's drawing in give a damn if Hexagon has fancy new features it doesn't already have? For the most part NO, because the market is for people who want to buy premade stuff, drop it in their scenes, and hit RENDER. Some might play with the free modeller, but for the vast majority modelling is WAY too complicated and too deep, when all they want to do is use content and make renders. Which is why Poser and D|S don't even have modellers built in. And these new users have invested ZERO in the software, which means they could, and would, drop it at a moment's notice and move on to the latest video game without giving it a second thought.


    If people have to spend hundreds of $$ for software, it means they're somewhat serious and probably intend to use it for a long period, and are probably very hesitant to drop it and move on to some other interest. You're attracting fairly serious artists or hobbyists or whatever. Not so when you give it away. You're getting, for the most part, a short term surge in content sales for as long as the buzz lasts. And once that's over, what do you do? You can't lower the price any lower on Hexagon (or Bryce, or D/S), so somehow you have to keep new content buyers coming in. And how many new content buyers are you going to attract by hyping the fact that Hexagon 3 now has voxel sculpting and retopology? Most will scratch their heads and say, "yeah, whatever...."


    You can argue all day long that it's going to attract people who really care about new Hex tools and features, but only time will tell. I think the chances are slim to none. And anyone who thinks that the content sales that Hex generates are going to cover development costs to keep developers working on Hex are, IMO, dreaming.


    One developer working for a year probably costs something like $100k total (I'm guessing). How many sets of Genesis clothes is that?

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    THEY GAVE IT AWAY FOR FREE !!!! Did you guys miss that??

    I did notice that. I was just hoping that DAZ_bfurner would come forward and actually admit that is what was being hinted at.

    I am tired of using DAZ's alpha/beta software anyway now. None of their software on final release is what I would describe as finished. Far too many bugs and problems.
    I have already (months ago) removed Bryce and Carrara, I will now remove Hexagon and use supported software.

  • RedSquareRedSquare Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    afreaginname -

    Well, “confirmed” means they admit it’s a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed, while “acknowledged” means they admit it’s a problem, but hell will freeze over before it gets fixed.


    :lol::vampire::snake: :lol:

    Post edited by RedSquare on
  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    Well...hmmm...let's see....plans for Hexagon....gee, I can't imagine what they might....


    THEY GAVE IT AWAY FOR FREE !!!! Did you guys miss that??


    It has become solely a tool to generate content sales. That's it. Why would they have even the slightest incentive to invest another penny in costly development of software that is only useful to get people to buy content??? As long as people see a cool package of free software, and it works reasonably well, it's doing its job. Period.


    And do the people who it's drawing in give a damn if Hexagon has fancy new features it doesn't already have? For the most part NO, because the market is for people who want to buy premade stuff, drop it in their scenes, and hit RENDER. Some might play with the free modeller, but for the vast majority modelling is WAY too complicated and too deep, when all they want to do is use content and make renders. Which is why Poser and D|S don't even have modellers built in. And these new users have invested ZERO in the software, which means they could, and would, drop it at a moment's notice and move on to the latest video game without giving it a second thought.


    If people have to spend hundreds of $$ for software, it means they're somewhat serious and probably intend to use it for a long period, and are probably very hesitant to drop it and move on to some other interest. You're attracting fairly serious artists or hobbyists or whatever. Not so when you give it away. You're getting, for the most part, a short term surge in content sales for as long as the buzz lasts. And once that's over, what do you do? You can't lower the price any lower on Hexagon (or Bryce, or D/S), so somehow you have to keep new content buyers coming in. And how many new content buyers are you going to attract by hyping the fact that Hexagon 3 now has voxel sculpting and retopology? Most will scratch their heads and say, "yeah, whatever...."


    You can argue all day long that it's going to attract people who really care about new Hex tools and features, but only time will tell. I think the chances are slim to none. And anyone who thinks that the content sales that Hex generates are going to cover development costs to keep developers working on Hex are, IMO, dreaming.


    One developer working for a year probably costs something like $100k total (I'm guessing). How many sets of Genesis clothes is that?


    I didn't miss that it's being given away. DAZ probably has put Hex and Bryce on the free list as you can't expect to complain about software you are getting for free. DS4 Pro, that's obvious, they will get those suckers back with the next version.


    It's clear that DAZ has serious issues when it comes to time and resource management. I've seen it before in companies that have nothing to do with software. Publishing, auto parts manufacturing take your pick. They start on something and some bean counter or marketing person strolls in and stops them and re-tasks them to something else.


    In Hex's case, they update the code to work on Macs. They stuff up some of the code, like in previous versions, as they are under the pump. They move on and then tell us they have stopped Hex's development cycle for now. It's throwing a satchel charge into the room, beating it out the door and locking it behind them. They have done it before.


    The people that come to DAZ's defense will often point out that DAZ has limited resources, cash, insert any other excuse here. If I did this in my job, or any other, I am told "Your excuses are your own!"


    And that's that.


    I don't thnk DAZ is concerned about people using Hex for content creation or what not. If they would have taken care of the issues a couple of year ago they could be charging the $149 or what ever it was then. Now they are doing it to Carrara with the guise of adding Genesis fuctionality and a few extras and maybe some bug fixes all for the price of a minor fee and over two years of development time.


    So the point of this rambling? Switch to another software or put up with DAZ's poor buisness practices. I used to buy a RPG line quite a long time ago but the publisher was always late with new source marterial or left things he said was coming out go for years. In the end, I left it all behind.


    If someone says they are going to do something and the keep saying it and never do it or do it years later then they have no credability. In that case it depends on how long you wish to be led by the nose because they are cheaper than the next guy. I'll pay for good software, even If I have to put the money back for a bit or have Visa send hitmen out for me. So when I can, here I come Modo.


    Maybe everybody else might, just might think about doing the same. Or be led by the nose for longer than you have now. And I don't think it would be 100k a year, DAZ developers would be on a salary per year but I couldn't guess how they budget for work on each application.


    DaRkWyNdE

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Is this the wrong time or place for me to say "I love hexagon"? :-)

  • RedSquareRedSquare Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Nope, my thread and ditto. :-)

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited July 2012

    DaRkWyNdE said:
    It's clear that DAZ has serious issues when it comes to time and resource management. I've seen it before in companies that have nothing to do with software. Publishing, auto parts manufacturing take your pick. They start on something and some bean counter or marketing person strolls in and stops them and re-tasks them to something else.


    I'm guessing that neither you, nor anyone else in this forum, including me, has the slightest clue how DAZ runs its operation, what challenges it's facing, how it's responding. I know it's fun and easy to rag on something you know nothing about, but don't presume to know how well they're doing their jobs. If the "bean counters" (ie, accountants and budgets people) tell the head of the company there's no money left to pay the employees on Friday, you do what you have to do to make ends meet, if you can. If they had no other choice but to throw a hail mary pass by giving away their software in hopes of a short term cash infusion, then they had no other choice, and you, if it was your company, would probably have done the same.


    DaRkWyNdE said:
    The people that come to DAZ's defense will often point out that DAZ has limited resources, cash, insert any other excuse here. If I did this in my job, or any other, I am told "Your excuses are your own!".


    I know it's not cool here to "come to DAZ's defense", cuz it's more fun to pound on them. However, let's get real. Until you manage or run a large company, you have no clue about their challenges. It's easy to say "oh, it's just an excuse that they have no money to pay creditors and employees, etc." but how would YOU handle it? If you ain't got money, you ain't got money, and you can't pay people to do stuff that makes your customers happy. Facts are facts, and when you run the show you can't just brush the facts off and hope a fairy will land in your office with a sack of money.

    I don't thnk DAZ is concerned about people using Hex for content creation or what not.


    I never said or even implied that. Not even the "what not" part. They gave away the software to attract people into the market of using free 3D software and then having to buy content from DAZ to make anything useful.


    And I don't think it would be 100k a year, DAZ developers would be on a salary per year but I couldn't guess how they budget for work on each application.


    The 100k per year was a guesstimate of the total cost for keeping a software developer in the payroll for a year. Salary, benefits, cost of office space, insurance, etc. I don't think they have any developers working solely on one software package, I think they bounce around as needs dictate.


    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    First, to Redsquare,


    Sorry to hijack your thread with all of this.

    I'm guessing that neither you, nor anyone else in this forum, including me, has the slightest clue how DAZ runs its operation, what challenges it's facing, how it's responding. I know it's fun and easy to rag on something you know nothing about, but don't presume to know how well they're doing their jobs. If the "bean counters" (ie, accountants and budgets people) tell the head of the company there's no money left to pay the employees on Friday, you do what you have to do to make ends meet, if you can. If they had no other choice but to throw a hail mary pass by giving away their software in hopes of a short term cash infusion, then they had no other choice, and you, if it was your company, would probably have done the same.


    I think the words in bold sums up what I may or may not have responded about what you've said. Looking back on all the crap I wrote, I shouldn't have bothered about it. I don't care one way or the other. Normally I don't jump on and "pound on DAZ" so I'm trying to remember why I did bothered with it.


    But the rest of what you said in your response to me indicates you seem to know what DAZ is thinking so we'll just go with your right and leave it at that. I don't come to these forums to argue with people so I'm sorry I posted. I've been frustrated with DAZ about Carrara and Hex but they can do as they please and I'll do the same. If you have the inside scoop on how DAZ works internally or how good they are at their job, that's fine. I don't and I won't comment on the subject anymore.


    DaRkWyNdE

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    DaRkWyNdE said:
    I don't come to these forums to argue with people so I'm sorry I posted.

    And y'know, it really doesn't have to be "arguing". I know everyone here thinks that discussions are bad if they're not in agreement, but...

    Actually, the purpose of a public forum is for what? The exchange of ideas and perspectives and information and views. You have a view, other people have other perspectives and views and experiences. So in an ideal world it's an opportunity to discuss, and learn, and understand.

    And maybe at some point you might even say "Hmmm, now I never considered that. Interesting. Gosh, I think I may have actually learned something". Or, you may say, "Hmmm, after hearing all sides, I still think my views are pretty solid for these reasons...", and you have a dialogue with others to discuss the topics intelligently. And maybe somebody in the discussion learns something. That's good, right?

    That's why the internet can be so useful. You can quickly hear multiple views, and possibly learn and understand something just a bit better.

    And that's what we all want, right?

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    DaRkWyNdE said:
    I don't come to these forums to argue with people so I'm sorry I posted.

    And y'know, it really doesn't have to be "arguing". I know everyone here thinks that discussions are bad if they're not in agreement, but...

    Actually, the purpose of a public forum is for what? The exchange of ideas and perspectives and information and views. You have a view, other people have other perspectives and views and experiences. So in an ideal world it's an opportunity to discuss, and learn, and understand.

    And maybe at some point you might even say "Hmmm, now I never considered that. Interesting. Gosh, I think I may have actually learned something". Or, you may say, "Hmmm, after hearing all sides, I still think my views are pretty solid for these reasons...", and you have a dialogue with others to discuss the topics intelligently. And maybe somebody in the discussion learns something. That's good, right?

    That's why the internet can be so useful. You can quickly hear multiple views, and possibly learn and understand something just a bit better.

    And that's what we all want, right?

    I can agree with that.

    While responding to your last post I, rather slowly, came to the conclusion that I shouldn't have posted. You were right in saying we don't know the internal workings of DAZ and that's why I don't want to comment on it. I'm not bent out of shape about it.

    It's all good.

    DaRkWyNdE

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    Oh, sorry...you thought I was serious with all of that "...exchange of ideas and perspectives and information and views..." nonsense? Nah, we all know the real benefit of the internet is so people can watch home videos of cats playing the piano and guys wiping out on their skateboards, and download music for their iPod, and play online video, and watch porn, and goof with their "friends" on Facebook.

    Heck, all that other stuff is just what people tell everyone else they do, not what they really do.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding... :)

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    Oh, sorry...you thought I was serious with all of that "...exchange of ideas and perspectives and information and views..." nonsense? Nah, we all know the real benefit of the internet is so people can watch home videos of cats playing the piano and guys wiping out on their skateboards, and download music for their iPod, and play online video, and watch porn, and goof with their "friends" on Facebook.

    Heck, all that other stuff is just what people tell everyone else they do, not what they really do.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding... :)


    Heh. That's pretty much what I do when I'm not playing around with 3D. Except for Ipod and Facebook.


    DaRkWyNdE

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