What's the best possible Windows set up for Daz ?

MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in New Users

As mine's getting a bit old and slow anyway does anyone know what is currently the best possible Windows set up for Daz ? The fastest and most efficient etc. etc. long term, and how to keep it that way with periodic update downloads without having to worry about buying another for quite a while ?

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Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,332
    edited December 1969

    You mean which version of Windows? 7 is current and seems good, though I didn't do a sde-by-side comparison with XP. If you do complex scenes it's certainly worth having the 64 bit version, assuming you have enough RAM to take advantage of it.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Marcuse :)

    As Richard mentioned, RAM is an important factor in how your system performs. Unfortunately, 32-bit processors and programs can only access up to 3GB or Ram.

    When you move up to a 64-Bit processor, with a 64-bit Operating system, like Windows7, then you can run 64-bit Programs, as well as still running all your older 32-bit programs.

    A 64-bit system can handle much more ram, and 64-bit programs can take advantage of that.

    Hope some of that makes sense :)

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    (To Richard.) Not sure about any of it really as there are so many versions of Windows and though I don't really understand how it works, as it's likely there will be complex scenes and eventually animations the more RAM it's possible to have presumably the merrier ?


    Although a non techie (probably always will be) and still a complete beginner to Daz, the reason for asking is as I've done quite a lot of freehand pencil artwork in the past, I'm interested in seeing how much it could improve my existing drawing skills and techniques. As effectively you're not only using the characters like the old wooden bending with wires mannequins, but each stage of the picture as an ongoing draft sketch which I think would be much quicker than yet another time consuming sketch with many confusing lines and rubbing outs everywhere. On the other hand trying to get towards the finished pictures I've already got in my mind with Daz is likely to take far longer if the equipment is slow or too old. At the moment I've several completed sketches ready for when I've got the Daz basics understood, so why I'm wondering now about the best computer equipment before I get too involved. Equally whether there's really any need to change from what I've got if the difference is likely to be marginal ?


    Incidentally would it be possible to convert my 32 bit to 64 bit ?

    Post edited by Marcuse on
  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    3DAGE said:
    HI Marcuse :)

    As Richard mentioned, RAM is an important factor in how your system performs. Unfortunately, 32-bit processors and programs can only access up to 3GB or Ram.

    When you move up to a 64-Bit processor, with a 64-bit Operating system, like Windows7, then you can run 64-bit Programs, as well as still running all your older 32-bit programs.

    A 64-bit system can handle much more ram, and 64-bit programs can take advantage of that.

    Hope some of that makes sense :)

    Ah we crossed in the post and you've answered my question thanks ! So how much RAM can a 64 bit take ?

    Post edited by Marcuse on
  • prixatprixat Posts: 606
    edited December 1969

    Hi Marcuse

    I'm running win7 with 8GB and the cheapest 6 core I could find.

    It can just about manage 101 Genesii (?) :cheese:

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,332
    edited December 1969

    Windows 7 Home Premium will use up 16GB
    Windows 7 Professional will use up 192GB, as I recall

    The only other big difference between Home Premium and Professional is that Pro will back up to a network location, while Home will back up only to a local drive - but if you have a NAS or the like you probably got some kind of back up software with that.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Marcuse :)

    The amount of Ram your system can take depends on the motherboard, and how many ram slot's it has, and what the maximum ram for those slots are.

    The motherboard (main circuit board) will have a Maximum amount of ram it can handle, many new motherboards can have 64GB or ram , or more!
    although, around 4, or 8 GB is "normal". the more you have, the more you can do.

    The amount of ram you need also depends on what you want to do, and the program you choose to do it with.

    For example:,
    to take Prixats example of having 8GB and being able to have 101 genesis figures loaded in Daz Studio,..

    Daz Carrara can use replicators to make that into hundreds of thousands without using more ram ..
    quick example..
    using three genesis figures and two of the Daz Millennium horse. 3500 Anubis warriors :)
    and that's on a system with only 4Gb

    anubises.jpg
    800 x 444 - 32K
  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,271
    edited December 1969

    prixat said:
    Hi Marcuse

    I'm running win7 with 8GB and the cheapest 6 core I could find.

    It can just about manage 101 Genesii (?) :cheese:

    I'm in the market for a new board and chip, current one only supports 4GB Ram, what did you go with please?

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    3DAGE said:
    HI Marcuse :)

    The amount of Ram your system can take depends on the motherboard, and how many ram slot's it has, and what the maximum ram for those slots are.

    The motherboard (main circuit board) will have a Maximum amount of ram it can handle, many new motherboards can have 64GB or ram , or more!
    although, around 4, or 8 GB is "normal". the more you have, the more you can do.

    The amount of ram you need also depends on what you want to do, and the program you choose to do it with.

    For example:,
    to take Prixats example of having 8GB and being able to have 101 genesis figures loaded in Daz Studio,..

    Daz Carrara can use replicators to make that into hundreds of thousands without using more ram ..
    quick example..
    using three genesis figures and two of the Daz Millennium horse. 3500 Anubis warriors :)
    and that's on a system with only 4Gb

    Thank you I think I follow ! So would having more RAM mean quicker test results of say different facial expressions etc. as I often take ages to get it exactly right when drawing ! One of the many reasons why I'm interested to try Daz.


    Not my work but for example....

    Facial_expressions.JPG
    551 x 492 - 48K
    Post edited by Marcuse on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    Hi :)

    Different facial expressions should be a matter of applying a Pre-set expression, and adjusting it, or adjusting the individual facial morphs in the figure, and both of those should happen in near real time, while you're working.

    Rendering the results as an image, depends on the rendering and lighting settings you're using, but both of these should be possible on your current system.

    Where you really need more power is if you have Multiple figures in a scene, complex lighting, complex sets / scenery, and basically lot's of stuff to calculate.
    also, high quality render settings will take longer to render than lower "draft" rendering, but in Daz Studio, you have a pretty decent "preview of what you're doing while you're doing it.

    :)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    At this time I'm running a Win 7 64 bit system with 8 Gb ram. I have not hit any limits in DS4Pro 64 bit yet, it handles any scene I throw at it without a hicup. I have done one scene with a stonemason set and 14 posed and clothed genesis's with UE lighting and it only pushed my ram to a little over half used. It saved and rendered just fine. The render time was a little high but that was more my settings than anything.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    Hi :)

    Different facial expressions should be a matter of applying a Pre-set expression, and adjusting it, or adjusting the individual facial morphs in the figure, and both of those should happen in near real time, while you're working.

    Rendering the results as an image, depends on the rendering and lighting settings you're using, but both of these should be possible on your current system.

    Where you really need more power is if you have Multiple figures in a scene, complex lighting, complex sets / scenery, and basically lot's of stuff to calculate.
    also, high quality render settings will take longer to render than lower "draft" rendering, but in Daz Studio, you have a pretty decent "preview of what you're doing while you're doing it.

    :)

    Thanks yes I'd already explored this very interesting mutiple expression feature so this is extremely helpful info as it clearly separates low load (little waiting) and high. Fortunately most of what I need will probably be low or I can arrange it to be for the time being. Also I assume it's possible to export the final Daz scene into a Bryce landscape afterwards ?

    Btw just to make sure would these be my correct computer RAM details below ? If it is just 768mb of RAM and as I've no idea about computers is this something that can be downloaded or do I have to take it into a local computer store to have it upgraded, hopefully while I wait ?

    Thanks again a lot clearer about this side of things now - I hope ! :)

    Current_Window_XP_details.JPG
    417 x 488 - 30K
  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    At this time I'm running a Win 7 64 bit system with 8 Gb ram. I have not hit any limits in DS4Pro 64 bit yet, it handles any scene I throw at it without a hicup. I have done one scene with a stonemason set and 14 posed and clothed genesis's with UE lighting and it only pushed my ram to a little over half used. It saved and rendered just fine. The render time was a little high but that was more my settings than anything.

    Thanks now it's all starting to make some sense ! Very useful info too as this sort of set up sounds what I'll probably need eventually too, but whilst I'm still at the beginner stage (apart from a bit more RAM ?) I should be ok for a while I hope. Are there any big differences between XP and Windows 7 ?

    Thanks again !! ;)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Most standard XP system's that were sold were 32 bit, all Win 7 systems are 64 bit. I'm on Win 7 Home Premium so I'm limited to 16 Gb of ram but my 8 Gb has done me so far. As far as working differently, I adapted very easily. 32 bit systems are limited by the OS as to how much Ram they will use normaily 2 to 3 Gb, 64 bit systems have limits but those are caused by the hardware and Software. If you have the cash as said before Win7 can go as high as the 100 Gb's of ram if the system and OS are the right setup.
    XP does come in a 64 bit version but I'm not familer with it, mine was 32 bit. I do know that DS4Pro works best in a 64 bit system with a minimum of 4 Gb of ram.

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Very helpful thanks best to get this side sorted out first.


    Btw just to make sure would these be my correct computer RAM details below ? If it is just 768mb of RAM and as I’ve no idea about computers is this something that can be downloaded or do I have to take it into a local computer store to have it upgraded, hopefully while I wait ?

    Current_Window_XP_details.JPG
    417 x 488 - 30K
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,748
    edited December 1969

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Marcuse said:
    Very helpful thanks best to get this side sorted out first.


    Btw just to make sure would these be my correct computer RAM details below ? If it is just 768mb of RAM and as I’ve no idea about computers is this something that can be downloaded or do I have to take it into a local computer store to have it upgraded, hopefully while I wait ?


    To be truthful some PC's can not be upgraded. But first, no you can not download Ram, it is a hardward item it would need to be added to the PC if it will take a larger capasity Ram chip. It looks as if your PC could maybe go up to 2Gb of ram. You could get a better idea by running the Sysinfo program. I think it is in your Accessories folder.

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,271
    edited December 1969

    Here you go, I saved you $128 by not shipping overnight:

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    Configuration


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    LOL! For that price I wouldn't expect to have to pay extra to have the wiring cable tied up properly :)

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:

    To be truthful some PC's can not be upgraded. But first, no you can not download Ram, it is a hardward item it would need to be added to the PC if it will take a larger capasity Ram chip. It looks as if your PC could maybe go up to 2Gb of ram. You could get a better idea by running the Sysinfo program. I think it is in your Accessories folder.

    Many thanks for your and everyone's else's help and advice.....:)

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Here you go, I saved you $128 by not shipping overnight:

    And I saved you the expense of delivering it to the UK....;-)

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,748
    edited June 2012

    in all seriousness you want a gaming rig with more RAM than they generally come with, you want your emphasis first on the RAM (lots, and fast as possible), then the CPU (Quad core, multithread is better) then the GPU (which 3Delight does not use but Studio and LuxRender will) but that's all been discussed here. Keep in mind all computers are only as fast as their slowest component.

    I didn't see the +$18 was for two bread ties and some elmers glue, you probably don't need Diablo III either, but this thing will scream on Minecraft.

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Marcuse :)

    I think you're at the lower limit for running Daz Studio,. maybe even slightly lower than the recommended minimum :)
    and that's why things will be running slowly for you, but still OK for most other things, especially running with Windows XP . (it needs less ram).

    For Windows 7, I think the Minimum is 2GB ram, since Win7 uses more ram as standard than previous versions.
    you also need a processor capable of running Win 7.

    As Jaderail mentioned, Ram is "Hardware", it's not downloadable, but it is really easy to fit it, (it only goes in one way, and it clips into a slot., so, there's no electronics degree required :)

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1765595,00.asp

    The only thing you need to be "Sure" about is the Speed of the ram chips which your motherboard can take.
    Most computers come with a Manual which will specify the speed of the ram on the motherboard.
    there are a couple of apps you can download and run which will tell you exactly which ram you need. (see link above)

    Most PC components are VERY easy to install / upgrade, and come with a simple "user installation guide", although if you have a handy friendly PC store near you, and you don't mind paying to have someone do it for you,.. then ...all is good.

    I've Never bought a complete off the shelf PC, I always buy components, and build what I need,
    It gives me the freedom to add new stuff without thinking about any companies Warranty issues.

    It also means I'm not spending 16 grand to have the wiring tied up :)
    but I guess those multiple Monitors and graphics cards add quite a lot to the total price. ..It's still a lot of dough.

    Apart from the Power supply, there are no electronics involved in clipping or screwing components into the case, and most electronic stores like Maplin have all the Bit's individually, or they have "upgrade" set's, with a " Motherboard / Processor / Ram ", in a pack,
    and you take out the old stuff from your PC case,.. and put in the New stuff from the cardboard box.

    It's Mecano for grown ups :)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm with 3DAGE, I used to build fraken-boxes when I was still able, I have arthitus now so I order built to my spec systems now. It is the best value for your dollar if you can build yourself. I'm sure others can point you to some good parts places if you ask.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 1,748
    edited December 1969

    Win 7 will run with 1GB RAM, it just wont run very nicely. I've managed to pull of some immense pieces with 12GB RAM DS64 running and LuxRender running at the same time in Win 7 64 Ultimate so you don't need 64GB RAM (it's nice, but Peter Jackson doesn't need 64 GB of RAM right now either) 16GB RAM is plenty, just try to buy it all at once, all the same kind, all from the same vendor, RAM always slows to the slowest chip speed in your board, and while building is easy for some, it's frightening to others so don't be afraid to look at your options with buying from a vendor if you have to, there's no shame in it, most high end vendors will allow you to upgrade or downgrade a system and with a little research you can save yourself some $$$ or you can get something decent. By the time the warranty expires you may want to upgrade to something else anyway (new GPU or same socket type CPU only faster, or more/faster RAM) so buy off the shelf or build it's not going to matter. If you do build there are plenty of people on these forums who can walk you through it if you get yourself in hot water trying to build.

    AND don't buy a system with an integrated GPU or a high end pro one either, Studio (and LuxRender) do not take advantage of the high end chipsets and you can end up spending twice as much for a card that you could have got for half the price that runs double the speed.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,332
    edited December 1969

    Adding RAM to an existing system can be tricky if, as may be the case (it is for me, certainly), the processor's heat sink needs to be taken off to get at the slots.


    I would add a slight caveat on the RAM first, lots of it, then CPU - having more RAM than you need won';t help, while more CPU speed or cores will speed rendering as long as you have enough RAM. So you need to figure out what you need, add a bit for safety, and then look at CPUs before deciding to max your RAM out.

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Lost sorry ! :ohh:

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Marcuse :)

    It's easy to get lost in the jargon. sorry .

    CPU (Central Processing Unit) "Processor" .. this is the Brain of your computer.
    RAM (Random Access Memory) "Memory" ... This is the "working" memory of your computer.
    HDD (Hard Disk Drive) "Drive" ... this is the storage space for programs and working files.

    Those are the main things which will make your computer work faster.
    A "Quad" core CPU, has four processors, in a single CPU chip. so it's like four computer brains that can work independently.

    A CPU Cooler,.. is normally a chunk of metal called a (heat sink) plus a fan, which sits directly on top of your CPU, and stops it from overheating.

    The Processor in a computer gets warm as it's working, and the harder it works the hotter it can get.

    CPU Coolers can also be a fan, plus a sealed set of pipes with a liquid inside them, which circulates to provide a cooling system.
    Like a car radiator cools an engine.

    Sometimes a large cooling system can make it difficult to get into the area where the RAM slot's are.
    It depends on the layout of your Motherboard.

    For example: I have a Liquid cooling system with a large set of cooling pipes and a fan, which needs to be removed to get into the RAM slots.
    this means that I would need to disconnect the cooler from the top of the CPU where it's clamped onto, in order to change the RAM, or add more..

    Hope that makes sense. :)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    If you are not the handy type of person many sites will build you a PC from the components that you pick from what they sell. My PC started out as a standard model at a set price, I then changed the components to the ones I wanted. My finished PC is much more powerful than the system it started from. It also cost less than the system it started from because I dropped all the bells and whistles like extra software I did not need, the extra cd burner I had no need for ect ect ect...

    You just need to shop around and plan ahead.

  • MarcuseMarcuse Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks a lot for the explanations but afraid it's still way beyond me and probably always will, because not only do I hate computers but all things mechanical like crazy, non artistic perhaps, everything automatically always shuts down anyway ! Thankfully my computer repair guy who's long given up trying to explain anything has always cobbled together older parts as you suggested each time I needed a change, as not only did it work out a lot cheaper provided it just did the routine basics it was fine. However now I'm into Daz I think I know more or less what to ask him for next time round and reckon something like Windows 7 (or XP ?) 64 bit with around 60 ram should hopefully solve the question for a long time to come....?

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    HI Marcuse :)

    No problem. :)

    You probably want to ask him for something like....

    Windows 7 64bit ..which will need
    a 64-bit processor
    Anywhere between 8 and 16 GB of Ram (whatever your budget runs to) ..but 60GB would probably be overkill at this point
    a 1TB Hard drive.
    a Graphics card with 1GB of ram ..(or more)

    That should do you for a few years. :)

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